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Old 09-19-2016, 04:04 PM   #61
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one situation could never get resolved as a boy kept mouthing and shoving a kid around corners or bathrooms where no one could witness or verify...And of course the bully would deny doing anything...Parents were no help.
Parent of child receiving end said she wanted him to punch him but didnt want the discipline on his permanent record. I assured mother discipline does not follow him and starts over in HS. I reemphasized there will be nothing that follows him, and a "3 day vacation" would end this permanently. 2 weeks later, the bully got bullied, and there was never a problem again.
How would you have handled the discipline if when the victim punched the bully (with your and his mother's tacit approval), and the bully (bigger, tougher and more experienced in fighting) punched him back in self-defense and broke his nose and cheek?

It always makes an entertaining story when the bully is actually a weakling/coward and the victim gives him a punch and ends it. I bet that back in the day that might have frequently been the case. Today, things often seem different. Frequently the bully has selected an easy target who isn't even close to being capable of successfully fighting back. It's not a matter that the victim is being kept from retaliating by authorities and the fear of punishment, it's that the victim is incapable of fighting back and winning. What do you do then? Just tell the victim to put up his dukes and do his best?
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Bullying
Old 09-19-2016, 04:56 PM   #62
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How would you have handled the discipline if when the victim punched the bully (with your and his mother's tacit approval), and the bully (bigger, tougher and more experienced in fighting) punched him back in self-defense and broke his nose and cheek?

It always makes an entertaining story when the bully is actually a weakling/coward and the victim gives him a punch and ends it. I bet that back in the day that might have frequently been the case. Today, things often seem different. Frequently the bully has selected an easy target who isn't even close to being capable of successfully fighting back. It's not a matter that the victim is being kept from retaliating by authorities and the fear of punishment, it's that the victim is incapable of fighting back and winning. What do you do then? Just tell the victim to put up his dukes and do his best?


I didnt go through entire details and summarized way too much in entire process as that would take multi length paragraphs... But, Tacit may be good word, but I didn't condone and discipline guidelines were followed ... Needless to say it was a unique situation that is why I mentioned it...Ultimately at the end I was at a road block which the parent understood and agreed...I let her know what the discipline would be and how it would occur. She was comfortable with the understanding. And oddly enough, this was a smaller person who was lets just say was not a nice person and unwillingly to cooperate (and the apple didn't fall far from the tree). The person being bulled was a "gentle giant". The offender was banking on the unwillingness of the gentle giant to get in trouble. It wasn't even that much of an altercation as I knew it wouldn't be. The kid learned his lesson that he couldn't count on the "nice kid" taking it anymore.
Btw- Yes the landscape has changed... Oddly enough in final years prior to retirement and at HS level it was the girls who would have the occasional fight at school. The boys rarely if ever fought....And the girls were the cruel bullies ( mostly mentally). But most often at HS it was over a guy, but he almost always stayed out of it....
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Old 09-19-2016, 05:09 PM   #63
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Are you saying that the bully actually "turned in" the gentle giant after the act of retaliation? That's surprising. In the Chicago Pubic Schools, the bully would definitely have remained silent after the victim retaliated. There would have been no need for you to "take care of" the discipline because you would have never known. There would have been no complaint from the outdone bully, ever.

How would you have handled it if you didn't have a hunch ahead of time that the gentle giant was capable of "winning" if his mom told him it was OK to fight back? What if your size-up of the situation was that the victim would have gotten his clock cleaned if he retaliated? Then what?
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Old 09-19-2016, 05:20 PM   #64
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Are you saying that the bully actually "turned in" the gentle giant after the act of retaliation? That's surprising. In the Chicago Pubic Schools, the bully would definitely have remained silent after the victim retaliated. There would have been no need for you to "take care of" the discipline because you would have never known. There would have been no complaint from the outdone bully, ever.


No I didnt say that at all.... You will love this part.....The "Gentle Giant" came into the office and turned himself in without assistance.....And the bully did finally confess also, but there were witnesses to this final incident so he had nowhere to go but confess.....We are not Chicago Public Schools out here in the sticks..It works a different in rural lands. Thankfully, and I appreciated that also.....The kids as a 99.8% rule were a joy to work with... And oddly enough at the junior high level, the kids that I roasted their rumps were the ones that loved me the most and would never miss a chance to speak with me out in the halls.
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Old 09-19-2016, 06:31 PM   #65
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At any rate, I don't buy the kids will be kids response. Bullies should be disciplined and removed from school if they persist.
There are a wide range of activities that are lumped together under bullying. The occasional (or regular) punch from a much bigger kid might be resolved in some anecdotes by the victim fighting back. Or it might end in tragedy when the bully has a knife or a gang and doesn't back down.

Also, this physical bullying is not the same as the ostracism and psychological abuse that some bullying includes. In some cases, this can be far more damaging. I've spoken to many adults who are convinced that being the victims of this kind of bullying left a lasting impression that affects self-esteem, confidence and willingness to take sensible risks even as adults.
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Old 09-19-2016, 06:56 PM   #66
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I've spoken to many adults who are convinced that being the victims of this kind of bullying left a lasting impression that affects self-esteem, confidence and willingness to take sensible risks even as adults.
It certainly had a lifelong effect on me, and I got big enough and mean enough by about 8th grade that I mostly got left alone, at least physically. I can imagine what the effects were on those who remained short of stature.
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Old 09-19-2016, 07:03 PM   #67
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When I was young, bullying was not an issue [at least not where I grew up.]

Plenty of bullying on the internet. I've witnessed it on many forums by [supposed] adults.

I can only imagine the bullying children/teenagers experience today both real and virtual.

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Old 09-19-2016, 07:09 PM   #68
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I wasn't bullied until the 7th grade and I didn't have the kahonies to stand up for myself until the 9th grade. I stood up to the bully, picked an off school location to settle the matter, and got my a$$ kicked. NEVER had a problem with him for the next 3 years or anyone else for the rest of my life. I ended up being a supervisor for over 30 salary and 150 hourly employees, and was often asked why I was so mean looking.
My son came to me about some older kids bullying him, and I told him to hit the biggest one in the face next time it happened. It never did. He graduated 19th in a class of 281, and was a 4 year letter man in basketball.
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Old 09-20-2016, 07:24 AM   #69
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I taught my kids not to be aggressors but to answer an aggressive act by others with a 10 fold return. Worked out well as the school bullies chose others after their first encounter with them.
I think that might work most of the time but I do know of a case that it developed into an ongoing feud (and a lot of fights) between two guys that started in elementary school and lasted through their high school years.
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Old 09-21-2016, 07:36 AM   #70
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The online harassment thing can be really horrible. The targeted person is photographed by cell phone wherever he/she goes, and location posted to some app. It's a game to humiliate the target. Target's image is photo shopped and laughed at. All such good wholesome fun! Except for the target. I've seen this done at work, condoned by management. Maybe even started by management. Nobody complains about it since they don't want to be the next target. Target goes postal sometimes, of course.
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Old 09-21-2016, 08:03 AM   #71
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I taught my kids not to be aggressors but to answer an aggressive act by others with a 10 fold return. Worked out well as the school bullies chose others after their first encounter with them.
I really wish that I was taught this important child lesson as opposed to "you can never solve violence with violence, so just try being nice to them and they will be nice back". The advice I was given was unfortunately nonsense in the reality we live in.
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Old 09-21-2016, 09:47 AM   #72
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I had not one, but two older brothers. Both were not only over 6'4", but also well muscled and became varsity football players in school as soon as they were old enough for the team. As for interactions between us, our parents believed in the "let the kids work it out themselves" school of parenting.

Need I say more? What a wild childhood. By the time I encountered the junior high mean girls and similar bullies, I was already used to being bullied to an extent that made them look like amateurs. I just withdrew into myself and toughed it out.

I guess I could retitle this post as "the making of an introvert".
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Old 09-21-2016, 10:35 AM   #73
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School shooting!

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I taught my kids ... to answer an aggressive act by others with a 10 fold return. .
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Old 09-21-2016, 11:54 AM   #74
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School shooting!
Thank goodness no although both of my kids do know how to, in fact my daughter is better than I am.
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Old 09-26-2016, 09:09 PM   #75
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I avoided it because my buddies were the ones. OTOH I got excluded by the upper class. I immediately learned about the BS of the upper class. I still enjoy that exclusion.
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Old 09-30-2016, 10:22 AM   #76
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By all rights, I should have been bullied, as I was one of those smaller, weaker kids in high school with very low self-esteem and no idea how to fit in. The brilliant (IMHO) scheme I unwittingly came up with was that I became uncommonly cool. No one had any idea that under that calm, collected, smooth exterior I was a very self-conscious, frightened young man. In college I became much more self-confident while perfecting the Art of Cool and did in fact become very popular. Then in adulthood, living in dense, major cities out of necessity I had to change and make it obvious confronting me unsolicited is not something you would walk away from in one piece. Fortunately, as you get older, you get to mellow and realize it was all pointless anyway and now you couldn't get "bullied" if you tried.
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