Bullying

[razztazz]

That is a big 'ol +1000000 right there.

Right now the NEA types have it their way: if anything happens they can hose down both the bully and the target and keep themselves nice and clean. They parrot the nonsense zero tolerance line and generally seek to cover up any problems as much as possible rather than deal with them. My daughter's school is within spitting distance of two high schools which had extremely high profile events where the bullied showed up with firearms and settled hash in a terminal way, the whole district has formal anti-bullying programs, and yet when push came to shove it was union member CYA all the way when we had an issue. Frankly, if my kids have an issue into high school it will be krav maga classes and if it gets to that point the bullies will have to deal with me. I can afford lawyers and would have no compunctions about delivering a beating, legal or otherwise.

Thanks for the "+" but as I wouldn't rope the NEA types only. As I stated earlier I went to a very draconian, Catholic school. All about "responsibility" and "punishment". Except where they were concerned. School was the great bright light that showed me you can't trust any person, group, or institution.
Liars and turds. That kind of behavior is at least as inbred as any innate tendency for young human specimens to bully.

Whenever my brother, who still lives back east, sends me an obit of some teacher we remember, I feel only joy and see the only tragedy was that they lived as long as they did.

 

[brucethebroker]

Bullying, within the school systems in our area, seems to be an emotional hot button word that makes administrators drop everything and give your child immediate attention. Want your child's problem to be taken seriously? Tell the school he/she is being bullied.

 

[EastWest Gal]

Too many people seem to think there is a simple answer, punch back, stand your ground, etc. and that parents these days are too involved, calling active involved parents, "helicopter parents." Pediatricians like "helicopter parents." Their kids generally do not poison themselves with household products or medications or drown in the family hot tub while mom answers the phone. Underinvolved parents are a bigger problem. Parents too busy with their own problems, alcohol, drugs, their own drama and addictions. Their kids are abused or ignored, which is a kind of abuse. Parents are supposed to raise their children. Children left to raise themselves make too many big mistakes. Many of those kids become the attention-getting bullies.

Schoolyard bullies target small INTJ type kids, who don't hang out with lots of friends. Their targets are doing nothing wrong. The targets do not hang around in gangs, and must turn to the teachers, administrators and parents as their back up. Targets may be a different race, gay, transgender, or have a disability, or may be smart but small. So many people here seem to think a punch in the face or fighting fixes bullying. What if the target cannot or doesn't want to fight?

The targets of bullies are not necessarily weaker; they are often the more competent and successful. The target is taken by surprise when he/she is bullied. The target would prefer to go about his business and get the schoolwork or the job done, or play by the rules and be fair, and along comes a disruptive bully who lacks self esteem and knows the target is more successful and is held in higher regard. The bully needs to win at all costs.

This occurs in the adult realm, often with dire consequences, in workplace bullying and even between nations. Look at ISIS and North Korea and the like and who they target. Terrorists target first world countries, and capitals and market places and luxury hotels of the less successful countries. They go after what they perceive to be the competent and the successful.

People resort to bullying ad hominem attacks and fighting when they cannot win through reason and logic; when they feel like they are losing in the world.

Fortunately we are finally beginning to recognize and deal with adult bullying. Having been a target myself, I know it made me physically ill and created much stress and career damage.

Bullying is a huge problem and there are no easy answers. But we are making progress as a society. When I was bullied at work in 2004 I lost my job. Now, anti-bullying (workplace bullying) legislation has been introduced in 30 states.

The link below is to a website I found in 2004 that was a huge help to me at the time.

http://www.workplacebullying.org


Sent from my iPhone using Early Retirement Forum

 

[easysurfer]

Here's an interesting write up in Psychology Today including bullying as an example of everyday sadism:

There are several personality types that are more likely to harm another than the average person would. Sadists possess an intrinsic motivation to inflict suffering on innocent others, even when this comes at a personal cost. This is because for sadistic personalities, cruelty is pleasurable, generally exciting, and can be sexually stimulating.

In a recent study, Buckels and colleagues examined examples of everyday sadism as part of what they refer to as the “Dark Tetrad,” sadism plus the original members of the “Dark Triad”—psychopathy, narcissism, and Machiavellianism. These personalities have some overlap and are characterized by callous manipulation, self-centeredness, disagreeableness, and exploitation.

Most of us will encounter an "everyday sadist"—someone who actively seeks to cause us emotional pain. Given the potential for overlap among sadism, narcissism, psychopathy, and Machiavellianism, for the purposes of the below we will refer to anyone who purposefully causes emotional harm as an everyday sadist, or ES. The actions of an ES can range from the petty to the severe.
Common examples of everyday sadism include:

• Intentionally repeating secrets that the ES promised to keep private
• Portraying someone in a false or unflattering light in an effort to damage their reputation
• Working to bring about someone’s being fired or otherwise jeopardize their job in the absence of cause
• Seeking to ruin another person's relationship
• Theft of property—physical, financial, or intellectual
• Deliberately marginalizing a coworker, classmate, or family member, or student
• Cyber or other bullying

https://www.psychologytoday.com/blo...everyday-sadists-and-other-dark-personalities

As long as folks don't "play nice", sadly there will always be bullies which aren't only in childhood playgrounds. Many bullies as kids end up being bullies as adults .

 

[SumDay]

I honestly don't ever recall being bullied. I feel very fortunate. I don't think my kids were either. Again, thank you Lord.

 

[Bestwifeever]

I think kids need to know that the parents will always have their back--if not, who can they go to when they believe they are being attacked? Nothing wrong with children being the most important things in their parents' lives. I would hope the parents explain to their children why they want the children to resolve bullying on their own, as a start, but even then I hope the kids know mom and dad are going to take it from there if that doesn't work.

 

[Sojourner]

What drives me crazy today is seeing the helicopter parents. Where I live, they drive their kids to the corner where the school bus stops, even if that's only about 100 feet. They either sit in the car with the kid, or walk around while the kid has to sit in the car until the bus comes.

Same thing in the afternoon when the bus drops the kid off 100 feet from their door. It's insane IMHO.

+1

This is a perfect example of how so many parents nowadays are driven by wildly overblown, irrational fears that have been perpetrated by the media for the past 20 odd years. Violent crime peaked in this country in 1993 and has dramatically and steadily fallen since, but you'd think we were living in a world full of fiendish, murderous child molesters lurking around every corner and behind every bush, judging by the helicoptering of today's parents. I for one feel really fortunate to have grown up in the 70s and 80s where kids were allowed to roam around the neighborhood and just be kids and experience and learn about the world in a natural, minimally sheltered way.

 

[Chris7]

Bullies should be disciplined and removed from school if they persist.

^ - This, but sadly schools don't seem willing or able to do this. The other side of the coin is bullies rarely learn it on their own. There is usually something going on at home or somewhere or has in the past. This doesn't excuse it, but sometimes they can be turned around if the cause can be found and corrected.

I teach my kids and others to first reach out to an adult or other superior (and hopefully to me). If that doesn't work defend yourself.

 

[Nemo2]

.......kids were allowed to roam around the neighborhood and just be kids and experience and learn about the world in a natural, minimally sheltered way.

OT

Reminded me of when, in the late 1940s/early 1950s, I'd visit my grandmother, in a relatively small country town, and take off for the day, alone and unsupervised.

Upon my return my grandmother would invariably ask "Did you go down to the creek (pronounced crick)?"

I was a kid, OF COURSE I went to the crick........where ELSE would I go?

Nowadays, seeing the 'copter parents at the nearby school, I often wonder if their parents want them to wear crash helmets while watching TV.

/OT

 

[Mulligan]

A huge problem. My petite grade school daughter was a target. I was ready to take her to krav maga classes since the administrators did nothing. Dw stumbled across a more effective solution. She groused about the situation on Facebook and when the principal had to deal with the start of a scandal things changed fast.



Personally I would have preferred she deliver a solid beating to the culprits, but in the schools today that comes with a heavy price.

That reminds me back in the day as a principal my best 2 situations... Usually we were able to get it solved, but one situation could never get resolved as a boy kept mouthing and shoving a kid around corners or bathrooms where no one could witness or verify...And of course the bully would deny doing anything...Parents were no help.
Parent of child receiving end said she wanted him to punch him but didnt want the discipline on his permanent record. I assured mother discipline does not follow him and starts over in HS. I reemphasized there will be nothing that follows him, and a "3 day vacation" would end this permanently. 2 weeks later, the bully got bullied, and there was never a problem again.
At another school where paddling was still allowed, I personally got to "bully the bully". And lets just say the paddle ended the bullying pretty quick. A few kids each year who didnt know their school law very well, waited to bully walking home from school thinking they were outside of the schools boundaries... They thought wrong and the rear end suffered the pain for the mistake the brain made. But the rear quickly convinced the brain not to do it again. I never had to "bully the same bully" twice!

 

[youbet]

one situation could never get resolved as a boy kept mouthing and shoving a kid around corners or bathrooms where no one could witness or verify...And of course the bully would deny doing anything...Parents were no help.
Parent of child receiving end said she wanted him to punch him but didnt want the discipline on his permanent record. I assured mother discipline does not follow him and starts over in HS. I reemphasized there will be nothing that follows him, and a "3 day vacation" would end this permanently. 2 weeks later, the bully got bullied, and there was never a problem again.

How would you have handled the discipline if when the victim punched the bully (with your and his mother's tacit approval), and the bully (bigger, tougher and more experienced in fighting) punched him back in self-defense and broke his nose and cheek?

It always makes an entertaining story when the bully is actually a weakling/coward and the victim gives him a punch and ends it. I bet that back in the day that might have frequently been the case. Today, things often seem different. Frequently the bully has selected an easy target who isn't even close to being capable of successfully fighting back. It's not a matter that the victim is being kept from retaliating by authorities and the fear of punishment, it's that the victim is incapable of fighting back and winning. What do you do then? Just tell the victim to put up his dukes and do his best?

 

[Mulligan]

How would you have handled the discipline if when the victim punched the bully (with your and his mother's tacit approval), and the bully (bigger, tougher and more experienced in fighting) punched him back in self-defense and broke his nose and cheek?

It always makes an entertaining story when the bully is actually a weakling/coward and the victim gives him a punch and ends it. I bet that back in the day that might have frequently been the case. Today, things often seem different. Frequently the bully has selected an easy target who isn't even close to being capable of successfully fighting back. It's not a matter that the victim is being kept from retaliating by authorities and the fear of punishment, it's that the victim is incapable of fighting back and winning. What do you do then? Just tell the victim to put up his dukes and do his best?

I didnt go through entire details and summarized way too much in entire process as that would take multi length paragraphs... But, Tacit may be good word, but I didn't condone and discipline guidelines were followed ... Needless to say it was a unique situation that is why I mentioned it...Ultimately at the end I was at a road block which the parent understood and agreed...I let her know what the discipline would be and how it would occur. She was comfortable with the understanding. And oddly enough, this was a smaller person who was lets just say was not a nice person and unwillingly to cooperate (and the apple didn't fall far from the tree). The person being bulled was a "gentle giant". The offender was banking on the unwillingness of the gentle giant to get in trouble. It wasn't even that much of an altercation as I knew it wouldn't be. The kid learned his lesson that he couldn't count on the "nice kid" taking it anymore.
Btw- Yes the landscape has changed... Oddly enough in final years prior to retirement and at HS level it was the girls who would have the occasional fight at school. The boys rarely if ever fought....And the girls were the cruel bullies ( mostly mentally). But most often at HS it was over a guy, but he almost always stayed out of it....

 

[youbet]

Are you saying that the bully actually "turned in" the gentle giant after the act of retaliation? That's surprising. In the Chicago Pubic Schools, the bully would definitely have remained silent after the victim retaliated. There would have been no need for you to "take care of" the discipline because you would have never known. There would have been no complaint from the outdone bully, ever.

How would you have handled it if you didn't have a hunch ahead of time that the gentle giant was capable of "winning" if his mom told him it was OK to fight back? What if your size-up of the situation was that the victim would have gotten his clock cleaned if he retaliated? Then what?

 

[Mulligan]

Are you saying that the bully actually "turned in" the gentle giant after the act of retaliation? That's surprising. In the Chicago Pubic Schools, the bully would definitely have remained silent after the victim retaliated. There would have been no need for you to "take care of" the discipline because you would have never known. There would have been no complaint from the outdone bully, ever.

No I didnt say that at all.... You will love this part.....The "Gentle Giant" came into the office and turned himself in without assistance.....And the bully did finally confess also, but there were witnesses to this final incident so he had nowhere to go but confess.....We are not Chicago Public Schools out here in the sticks..It works a different in rural lands. Thankfully, and I appreciated that also.....The kids as a 99.8% rule were a joy to work with... And oddly enough at the junior high level, the kids that I roasted their rumps were the ones that loved me the most and would never miss a chance to speak with me out in the halls.

 

[growing_older]

At any rate, I don't buy the kids will be kids response. Bullies should be disciplined and removed from school if they persist.

There are a wide range of activities that are lumped together under bullying. The occasional (or regular) punch from a much bigger kid might be resolved in some anecdotes by the victim fighting back. Or it might end in tragedy when the bully has a knife or a gang and doesn't back down.

Also, this physical bullying is not the same as the ostracism and psychological abuse that some bullying includes. In some cases, this can be far more damaging. I've spoken to many adults who are convinced that being the victims of this kind of bullying left a lasting impression that affects self-esteem, confidence and willingness to take sensible risks even as adults.

 

[brewer12345]

I've spoken to many adults who are convinced that being the victims of this kind of bullying left a lasting impression that affects self-esteem, confidence and willingness to take sensible risks even as adults.

It certainly had a lifelong effect on me, and I got big enough and mean enough by about 8th grade that I mostly got left alone, at least physically. I can imagine what the effects were on those who remained short of stature.

 

[Helena]

.

When I was young, bullying was not an issue [at least not where I grew up.]

Plenty of bullying on the internet. I've witnessed it on many forums by [supposed] adults.

I can only imagine the bullying children/teenagers experience today both real and virtual.

.

 

[Winemaker]

I wasn't bullied until the 7th grade and I didn't have the kahonies to stand up for myself until the 9th grade. I stood up to the bully, picked an off school location to settle the matter, and got my a$$ kicked. NEVER had a problem with him for the next 3 years or anyone else for the rest of my life. I ended up being a supervisor for over 30 salary and 150 hourly employees, and was often asked why I was so mean looking.
My son came to me about some older kids bullying him, and I told him to hit the biggest one in the face next time it happened. It never did. He graduated 19th in a class of 281, and was a 4 year letter man in basketball.

 

[Car-Guy]

I taught my kids not to be aggressors but to answer an aggressive act by others with a 10 fold return. Worked out well as the school bullies chose others after their first encounter with them.

I think that might work most of the time but I do know of a case that it developed into an ongoing feud (and a lot of fights) between two guys that started in elementary school and lasted through their high school years.

 

[John Galt III]

The online harassment thing can be really horrible. The targeted person is photographed by cell phone wherever he/she goes, and location posted to some app. It's a game to humiliate the target. Target's image is photo shopped and laughed at. All such good wholesome fun! Except for the target. I've seen this done at work, condoned by management. Maybe even started by management. Nobody complains about it since they don't want to be the next target. Target goes postal sometimes, of course.

 

[RioIndy]

I taught my kids not to be aggressors but to answer an aggressive act by others with a 10 fold return. Worked out well as the school bullies chose others after their first encounter with them.

I really wish that I was taught this important child lesson as opposed to "you can never solve violence with violence, so just try being nice to them and they will be nice back". The advice I was given was unfortunately nonsense in the reality we live in.

 

[W2R]

I had not one, but two older brothers. Both were not only over 6'4", but also well muscled and became varsity football players in school as soon as they were old enough for the team. As for interactions between us, our parents believed in the "let the kids work it out themselves" school of parenting.

Need I say more? What a wild childhood. By the time I encountered the junior high mean girls and similar bullies, I was already used to being bullied to an extent that made them look like amateurs. I just withdrew into myself and toughed it out.

I guess I could retitle this post as "the making of an introvert".

 

[Amethyst]

School shooting!

I taught my kids ... to answer an aggressive act by others with a 10 fold return. .

 

[Just_Steve]

School shooting!

Thank goodness no although both of my kids do know how to, in fact my daughter is better than I am.

 

[kcowan]

I avoided it because my buddies were the ones. OTOH I got excluded by the upper class. I immediately learned about the BS of the upper class. I still enjoy that exclusion.