burning wood compared to gas

[Rambler]

We supplement gas heat with wood heat. Ha makes a good point about the pollution from wood burning. We have a high efficiency Jotul wood stove (from Norway) that puts out very little pollution. DH gets wood free from a variety of places and likes splitting and stacking it. He must have been a lumberjack in a prior life!

Oh, and the cats love it for sure. Important point since we live for the comfort and convenience of the kitties

We also have a high efficiency Jotul in our California home, and when we move back for good intend to use it for most of our heat. We love it, and I also love to split and stack it. We also see this a part of our emergency preparedness program. The furnace in our home is propane, and at over 3 bucks a gallon, and a 4300 sq foot house, the Jotul and a couple hundred dollars worth of wood make huge economic sense, and it is a relatively clean, carbon neutral heat source. We do use the propane furnace to take the chill off if we are not going to be home longer than the time it takes to get up, showered and ready to go somewhere all day.

If I had to do it over again, I would have made the house much smaller, and would have designed it better for wood heating. The Jotul is in a large, open family room with a 2 story ceiling, so a lot of the heat goes upstairs to the kids rooms...but we are now empty nesters. We may end up using the bonus room upstairs for more of our winter activities...just fire up the stove in the evening and go upstairs...then check on the stove every hour or so. DW's hobby room is the bonus room anyway, so we'll likely spend a lot of time in the cooler months in there, when it's too chilly to spend a lot if time outside.

R

 

[veremchuka]

View attachment 11603

Al,

Can you explain the dome shaped pile of wood? Is it solid wood or is wood stacked around something? It is one cool looking pile of wood!

 

[Major Tom]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WLMjHy12eWo

 

[glippy]

...then check on the stove every hour or so.

oh yick. This is one reason the idea of a masonry stove appeals to me more than a regular old wood stove. Light a hot, fast fire that burns for an hour or two to heat up the stone and cement that then radiates the stored up heat for the next 6-12 hours without having to stoke any coals. Also makes for really clean chimneys I hear.

 

[GregLee]

That's a beautiful fireplace and a beautiful room.

 

[haha]

The state of Washington has strict rules about woodstove emissions. Nevertheless, during all but 3 summer months woodstoves are the major source of particulate pollution>2.5 microns diameter, the most damaging kind to human health.

Nice healthy image, but not so great in reality.

Ha

 

[veremchuka]

oh yick. This is one reason the idea of a masonry stove appeals to me more than a regular old wood stove. Light a hot, fast fire that burns for an hour or two to heat up the stone and cement that then radiates the stored up heat for the next 6-12 hours without having to stoke any coals. Also makes for really clean chimneys I hear.

I've read several articles about these massive stone structures and you can heat a house with minimal wood, around 1.5 cord for a winter. The down side is they cost a fortune, several years ago the price was in the $15-20,000 range! A wood stove is much less ($2500-3500) and even at $200 or $225 a cord it takes a long time to justify that initial outlay. They are popular in Scandinavian countries.

 

[veremchuka]

Is there anything no matter how obscure that you can't find on YouTube? YouTube is the 9th wonder of the modern world!

This is the musical version that was played on AM radio back then. I can remember a July night parked on Horse Sit Road (yep that's what we called it!) standing outside the car watching heat lightening and smoking some strange substance listening to this song! There aren't many songs from the 60's I really still like but this is one of them, seems like this song always sounds good whenever I hear it. I was surprised to see that Arthur Brown is white, for some reason I always thought he was black not that it matters really.

Nutty video!


YouTube - Arthur Brown - Fire

 

[TromboneAl]

Al,

Can you explain the dome shaped pile of wood? Is it solid wood or is wood stacked around something? It is one cool looking pile of wood!

Yes, it's called a "holz hausen" or "wood house." You pretty much make a ring of wood on the perimeter, and put wood inside stacked vertically. Here's an article on how to build it. It's supposed to be efficient for drying the wood, and it's definitely an efficient use of space. I've built a couple over the years.

Bigger ones are easier:

 

[Major Tom]

Is there anything no matter how obscure that you can't find on YouTube? YouTube is the 9th wonder of the modern world!

This is the musical version that was played on AM radio back then. I can remember a July night parked on Horse Sit Road (yep that's what we called it!) standing outside the car watching heat lightening and smoking some strange substance listening to this song! There aren't many songs from the 60's I really still like but this is one of them, seems like this song always sounds good whenever I hear it. I was surprised to see that Arthur Brown is white, for some reason I always thought he was black not that it matters really.

Nutty video!


YouTube - Arthur Brown - Fire

Very cool veremchuka. I was going to post this one but ended up posting the other instead as I had never seen it before, and it also has him doing his freaky white man dance. They are both cool though - and he's wearing that Viking fire helmet (or whatever it is) in both of them.

Talking of songs that never go out of style, I was walking home from the market yesterday. As I walked past a large (200 unit) apartment building that is better known for having low-riders playing loud hip-hop parked outside, one woman had her apartment windows fully open. She was singing along, at the very top of her voice and with great passion, to Journey's "Don't Stop Believing". It was cheesy, hilarious and epic all at the same time - a classic comedy movie moment!

 

[veremchuka]

Yes, it's called a "holz hausen" or "wood house." You pretty much make a ring of wood on the perimeter, and put wood inside stacked vertically. Here's an article on how to build it. It's supposed to be efficient for drying the wood, and it's definitely an efficient use of space. I've built a couple over the years.

Bigger ones are easier:

View attachment 11623

Thanks Al that's a great article. Pretty ingenious how this creates a chimney effect that speeds up the seasoning. It's not only practical but ascetically pleasing!

 

[tryan]

We burned 6 cords this year. 4 at home and 2 at the lake. All in wood stoves. Really not sure what the savings are because we've always burned wood. It's delivered as grapple (24 ft log length) and replaces my gym membership (as I cut split and stack it myself).

FWIW my wood-guy points out it costs $40/cord to do it yourself. This accounts for only: gas, chain oil, blade sharpen. Life insurance and saw maintenance are additional costs.

Last year the wood with delivery costs were $125/cord. This will creep up for gas costs ... I am sure.

 

[pb4uski]

I've read several articles about these massive stone structures and you can heat a house with minimal wood, around 1.5 cord for a winter. The down side is they cost a fortune, several years ago the price was in the $15-20,000 range! A wood stove is much less ($2500-3500) and even at $200 or $225 a cord it takes a long time to justify that initial outlay. They are popular in Scandinavian countries.

I have bought a Hearthstone woodstove that has sides and top that are soapstone. The stove heats the soapstone which then retains the heat and releases it over a longer period of time.

Probably not as good as these massive stone structures, but pretty good. I'll also have a solid stone hearth and stone wall behind the woodstove that will absorb, store and then release heat from the stove.

 

[RustyShackleford]

I was curious to see if anyone else burns wood on this site and how it compares to gas.

I burn wood a lot, but saving money is not the most important reason.

#1 is that it's SO much more comfortable and pleasant.
#2 is that harvesting my own firewood provides a lot of healthful exercise.
#3 is that it's renewable energy, which I feel strongly about supporting.
#4 is saving money on propane and electricity.

And if it were not for #2, I'm not sure #4 would even apply. Which was the main point of your question, I gather, so no help there - sorry.

 

[veremchuka]

I have bought a Hearthstone woodstove that has sides and top that are soapstone. The stove heats the soapstone which then retains the heat and releases it over a longer period of time.

Probably not as good as these massive stone structures, but pretty good. I'll also have a solid stone hearth and stone wall behind the woodstove that will absorb, store and then release heat from the stove.

Definitely not the same as a massive stone structure but that is true about soapstone stoves vs cast iron or steel plate stoves. The downside to a soapstone stove is they heat up more slowly than a cast iron or steel plate stove. So if you have a cold house like coming home from work or it is cold in the house from slowly losing heat a cast iron or steel plate stove heats up fast and warms the room/house faster than a soapstone stove would. However, a soapstone stove will radiate heat longer and more evenly than a cast iron or steel plate stove. As with most things in life there are trade offs.

 

[RustyShackleford]

I've read several articles about these massive stone structures and you can heat a house with minimal wood, around 1.5 cord for a winter.

You can't violate the laws of physics. You need a certain amount of BTUs/hour to keep a certain structure at a certain temperature; for a given burning efficiency, that requires a certain amount of wood.

The thing your refer to is called a Russian fireplace; the idea is that the house is built around this massive thing. There are two advantages, because the enormous thermal mass means that you needn't have a fire continuously burning. The idea is you burn an intense fire perhaps once a day. This is obviously more convenient. The fire is also likely to be more efficient than a slower smoldering fire. With the advent of modern catalytic stoves, that can burn extremely efficiently at low burn rates over long periods of time, these advantages are obviated. It still seems like a nice idea though, if you can afford the cost and space, although I would still want a catalyst to maximize the burning efficiency.

... but that is true about soapstone stoves vs cast iron or steel plate stoves. ... a soapstone stove will radiate heat longer and more evenly than a cast iron or steel plate stove.

If the "that" that is "true" is that it will use less wood, I say that's bogus for the reasons cited above.

The soapstone should radiate heat longer though, as its specific heat is about twice that of iron/steel, and thus stores (and later releases) twice as much energy when heated to a given temperature. Some of the same effect can be achieved by having masonry near your metal stove.

 

[braumeister]

We have a Jotul fireplace insert in the living room, although not a big one.
With all the trees on our lot, we'll probably never run out of wood to harvest, since we only go through a little over one face cord in the average winter.

We keep the house pretty cool, with the thermostat generally 64 in the winter, 62 at night. That's where we're most comfortable. When the fireplace is going, the furnace hardly comes on.

Like Rusty, I enjoy it largely because it's such an efficient use of the dead wood. The fact that it saves us money is a bonus.