Bush essentially Calls U.S. Treas Bonds 'Worthless

[Eagle43]

Re: Bush essentially Calls U.S. Treas Bonds 'Worth

Bush and current Republicans have spent more than any U.S. government in history. In that sense, they are not conservative. Of course, they are only responding to our demand. The conservative way would be to respond to our demand but to pay for it at the same time. That's what I do at home, pay as you go. I've always argued that for every new spending bill, there should be a corresponding new how-to-pay for it bill. That will never happen, but it should.

 

[Jarhead*]

Re: Bush essentially Calls U.S. Treas Bonds 'Worth

Gee I'd like to help you Ol Jarhead, but all I got are promises.  I don't have any real money.

You did say you are unfortunate and deserving, did you not?

After 43 years of working, I may not deserve what I'm getting, but I'm gonna keep it; that is, until some politician decides to give it to somebody else.

Eagle 43: Just having a little fun with you.
You absolutely deserve it. It only looks easy in retrospect.
I personally am not unfortunate or deserving. (Made my own bed).
My dad was a logger, and worked until he was 70 years old, and only left then when his back got so bad he couldn't do the work anymore. (At that, he died broke).
Counting 4 years in the Marine Corps., I was in harness
for 32 years.
Looking back, with the family obligations that I still had when I decided I'd had enough, (Age 49) without an updraft in the markets, would have been an accident waiting to happen.
Anyway, Eagle 43, you hung in there, and for damn sure deserve your pensions. (Guys like me, well, we puts up our money and takes our chances).
Regards, Jarhead

 

[Nords]

Re: Bush essentially Calls U.S. Treas Bonds 'Worth

Bush and current Republicans have spent more than any U.S. government in history.

I think we'd have to adjust those numbers for inflation before making comparisons.

Let's see, whose version of the inflation rate should we use?

 

[Eagle43]

Re: Bush essentially Calls U.S. Treas Bonds 'Worth

Eagle 43: Just having a little fun with you.
You absolutely deserve it. It only looks easy in retrospect.
I personally am not unfortunate or deserving. (Made my own bed).
My dad was a logger, and worked until he was 70 years old, and only left then when his back got so bad he couldn't do the work anymore. (At that, he died broke).
Counting 4 years in the Marine Corps., I was in harness
for 32 years.
Looking back, with the family obligations that I still had when I decided I'd had enough, (Age 49) without an updraft in the markets, would have been an accident waiting to happen.
Anyway, Eagle 43, you hung in there, and for damn sure deserve your pensions. (Guys like me, well, we puts up our money and takes our chances).
Regards, Jarhead

Thanks Jarhead, I appreciate your kind comments. As I have reported elsewhere on this forum, my father did not get 36 checks before he passed away. I would have been terrified to retire at 49, but as some self-help guru has said, first you make the decision, then you make it right.

You must have joined military at same age I did.. 17. Other than marrying DW, staying in for 21 years has resulted in only good, what with pension/medical. At least, it looks that way from this side of those 20.

BTW: There was a proud jarhead at Mega Corp, who had a sign on his cube: "Marines: when it absolutely, positively must be destroyed overnight." He was still gung ho, and would not tolerate being called an ex-marine. As an ex-USAF, I listened to him, cause I didn't wanna make him mad.

 

[charlie]

Re: Bush essentially Calls U.S. Treas Bonds 'Worth

Bush inherited a basket case of an economy and did
what supply siders do..... reduced taxes. If he had
cut social spending you lefties would be squealing
harder than you are now. From a budget viewpoint
I think you will see a harder stance on cutting frills
now that he does not have to get elected again.

Cheers,

Charlie

 

[laurence]

Re: Bush essentially Calls U.S. Treas Bonds 'Worth

The thing is, after Social Security, Medicare, Military spending, and interest on the debt, there isn't much left of the budget to cut! Politicians grandstand over table scraps and don't dare touch the sacred cows. As far as SS reform, in an ideal world, we'd stop the raiding of SS funds, raise the roof on SS tax (I said it, raise taxes, right now it's a regressive tax that disproportionally punishes the middle class and poor), and set up a board to invest the money as a lump sum, like pensions do, none of this private-oops I'm sorry-personal accounts crap that will just lead to huge expenses/overhead. Oh, and another thing, Bush's scripted town halls where "regular folks" ask him why democrats hate America is just creepy. Quit it! EOR

 

[newellcr]

Re: Bush essentially Calls U.S. Treas Bonds 'Worth

You guys were expecting a largish mattress with rolls of pennies, nickles, and dimes in it, maybe?  The SS funds are invested in treasuries.  The treasuries are only promises to pay, nothing more.  If the government wasn't going to use this money elsewhere, why would it "borrow" it and pay interest?  I would gladly pay you Tuesday for a hamburger today.  When Tuesday comes you can only hope to be paid.  I don't think Wimpy could print his own money though...

Cheers,

Chris

 

[farmerEd]

Re: Bush essentially Calls U.S. Treas Bonds 'Worth

Bush inherited a basket case of an economy and did
what supply siders do..... reduced taxes.  If he had
cut social spending you lefties would be squealing
harder than you are now.  From a budget viewpoint
I think you will see a harder stance on cutting frills
now that he does not have to get elected again.

Cheers,

Charlie

More apologists for the biggest spender in all history....5 years into Bush's term and its STILL all Clintons fault....

 

[Cut-Throat]

Re: Bush essentially Calls U.S. Treas Bonds 'Worth

Bush inherited a basket case of an economy and did
what supply siders do..... reduced taxes.  
Charlie

This is the biggest load of B.S. I've ever seen posted here!

- When Bush took office, the economy was in the best shape ever. Balanced Budget. Low interest rates, low inflation. Superb growth rate for the previous 4 years. Stocks at record level. The dollar strong. Not to mention respect of the World.

You really don't believe what you said - What planet have you been living on?

 

[laurence]

Re: Bush essentially Calls U.S. Treas Bonds 'Worth

<rant>and tax cuts paid for by borrowing is not a cut, it's a loan! But Bush runs the federal budget just like the average person runs their home budget, paycheck to paycheck, borrow when that runs short, worry about it later. I'm just preemptively bitter, knowing that those of us who are doing "the right thing" being fiscally responsible will probably end up paying for the brunt of this. <rant>

I wonder, is there a concious plan by our government to just rack up the debt, let foriegners loan us the money, then let inflation go and essentially shortchange them on payback? "Here is the $1 trillion we owe you, China, would you like to buy a Big Mac for only $1 billion?"

 

[charlie]

Re: Bush essentially Calls U.S. Treas Bonds 'Worth

Why thank you Cut ...... if this were not a mixed
company forum I would show you my other cheek!

OBLAY EMAY!

 

[Cut-Throat]

Re: Bush essentially Calls U.S. Treas Bonds 'Worth

Why thank you Cut ...... if this were not a mixed
company forum I would show you my other cheek!

OBLAY EMAY!

I don't see the sense in that post other than schoolboy name calling.

- You and I have very different viewpoints in how life should be lived and how this country should be run. I know you guys don't like Clinton, but please don't spin the facts to the ridiculous.

Actually the facts of the situation was that Bush was handed an economy so good, that the only direction it could go was down. I really don't believe Presidents have control of the economy during their term.

Any success that Clinton had was due in large part to the policies followed by Bush Sr. - I also believe that Jimmy Carter was responsible for most of the successes of the 1980's - Reagan, just went along for the ride and screwed Bush Sr. Bush Sr. called Reagan's polices 'voodoo economics' - which it was.

Bush Jr. however is the worst. What he is doing to the Budget debt and the dollar will show up in the next couple adminstrations. Future Presidents will have to 'clean up' after him and take the blame. A needless War and expensive occupation.

I keep wondering when the actions on all the 'Government Waste' that we have been hearing about for 30 years will be enacted. The only cuts that I keep hearing from Bush Jr. is Social Security! - I thought the government was loaded with needless departments. Why isn't the GOP going after them?

 

[charlie]

Re: Bush essentially Calls U.S. Treas Bonds 'Worth

Cut, it might surprise you to know that I kind of
liked Clinton even though he had the morals of
a snake and was a pussy when it came to running
the country with any thing but a wet finger to test
the political wind. But vote for him? Never!

If you can't admit that the country was headed into
a recession that was accelerated by 9/11 then you
truly live in an ivory tower and are blinded by your
own biases.

Yes, the "unnecessary" war (your opinion, not mine)
has been costly, but the long term jury is still out on
that. I happen to believe that if the democracy
experiment in Iraq is successful then the domino
effect in the middle east will pay a huge dividend
in the long run that will rival the fall of communism.

As for Carter, I liked him at first until he wimped out
with the hostages and let inflation run amok. I even
thought Reagan was "that Hollywood actor" until he
"tore down" the Berlin wall and drove communism to
it's knees.

I know you and your kind hate Bush and think he is
an idiot. But he is smart enough to surround himself
with good people. He says what he means and
means what he says ..... even if his syntax is a little
strange at times. He told us how he was going to
run the country and over 50% agreed with him. Now
he is trying to carry out what he promised.

BTW, my "school boy" reaction to your post was because you always seem to jerk my chain every
time I have a different opinion to your political rants.
I have a hard time letting you post political garbage
but for the most part I enjoy your posts.

You lost the election ..... now get over it.

Charlie

 

[Mr._johngalt]

Re: Bush essentially Calls U.S. Treas Bonds 'Worth

Hey Charlie! C-T can be a PITA, but he comes up
with some really sensible stuff at times. Normally,
liberals (to me) are lower than pond scum. OTOH, I have some really good friends who are obvious libs.
It's a testament to us that we can get along. It's
easier on-line though.

JG

 

[laurence]

Re: Bush essentially Calls U.S. Treas Bonds 'Worth

JG, I gotta ask you:

I know you are just joking around about lib=pond scum but as a registered republican, I feel really disenfranchised from the party right now. With both houses of congress and the Presidency for 5 years, they've shown they aren't any better at running things than their counterparts across the aisle. If they are going to spend money and grow the debt as fast (or faster) than anyone, abuse federal powers, and let osama run free, why am I voting for them again? I'll freely admit there are many issues I side with demos on more than repubs, but I think it's healthy when people don't just tow the party line. I just don't understand why so many people line up to drink the kool aid both parties are serving....

 

[Mr._johngalt]

Re: Bush essentially Calls U.S. Treas Bonds 'Worth

Here is the answer........... (actually I am the answer, but
we'll save that for later).

Back when I was voting and/or gave a damn, I voted
Republican; not out of any great love or inspiration,
but just because they were better than the other guys
(just my opinion). Now, they are so so similar that it
seems silly to support one party over the other.
OTOH, there are still some core issues where the
GOP tends to LEAN into my camp. Thus, if I was to
vote again (when hell freezes over), I would probably
still vote Republican, holding my nose all the way.

JG

 

[laurence]

Re: Bush essentially Calls U.S. Treas Bonds 'Worth

Sounds like we're on the same page then, JG. George Washington was against political parties, calling them one of the greatest threats to democracy. It's been downhill ever since our founding fathers.

 

[uncledrz]

Re: Bush essentially Calls U.S. Treas Bonds 'Worth

Any success that Clinton had was due in large part to the policies followed by Bush Sr. - I also believe that Jimmy Carter was responsible for most of the successes of the 1980's - Reagan, just went along for the ride and screwed Bush Sr. Bush Sr. called Reagan's polices 'voodoo economics' - which it was.

Bush Jr. however is the worst. What he is doing to the Budget debt and the dollar will show up in the next couple adminstrations. departments. Why isn't the GOP going after them?

Bush Sr. made the difficult choices and set the table for an economic expansion and got elected out of office for it.

Carter did little but fumble around, and got elected out of office for it. (The 80's were good years, in general, because the Fed raised rates dramatically and cut off inflation, Reagan cut many needless and contradictory regulations which freed the economy, and the natural expansion after the 70's slowdown).

Bush Jr. has piled on so much debt that not just the next few administrations, but our grandchildren, will be paying for his recklessness. Yet, he gets reelected.

I'm still trying to figure that one out.

 

[Cut-Throat]

Re: Bush essentially Calls U.S. Treas Bonds 'Worth

Carter did little but fumble around, and got elected out of office for it. (The 80's were good years, in general, because the Fed raised rates dramatically and cut off inflation, Reagan cut many needless and contradictory regulations which freed the economy, and the natural expansion after the 70's slowdown).

Uncledrez,

You better check your facts. The GOP has spun these stories so many times that you seem to believe it.

It was Carter that appointed Paul Volker and we saw the 20% Prime rate during Carter's term. You had the correct action to bring inflation down. You just credited the wrong president.

Reagan's economy ushered in the 'Borrow and Spend' Huge deficiets! - He increased the debt and cut little. Bush Jr. is Following Reagan.

I'll give Bush Sr. some credit. No credit to Reagan though. Carter took the bitter pills and paid for it politically. You should at least give Carter the credit for the High interest rates and taming inflation.

 

[farmerEd]

Re: Bush essentially Calls U.S. Treas Bonds 'Worth

>>Bush Jr. has piled on so much debt that not just the next few administrations, but our grandchildren, will be paying for his recklessness. Yet, he gets reelected.

>>I'm still trying to figure that one out.

Its not that complicated...50% of the country has below average intelligence...Karl Rove only had to get 1/10 of 1 % more people to fall for the spin.

 

[Newell]

Re: Bush essentially Calls U.S. Treas Bonds 'Worth

I have been very reluctant to join this discussion and I'm sure I'll regret having done so, however -

C-T began this thread with a charge that President Bush is attempting to "derail Social Security." Since I don't know what derailing Social Security means, I assume that C-T believes that President Bush is attempting to solve a problem in a manner that C-T doesn't agree with.

JohnP then accused President Bush of a "monumental theft of moneys..." and "negating" the Social Security debt.

Mikey then added to this lofty and distinguished debate by calling President Bush a "dyslexic ADHD moron..."

After a series of positive and negative contributions, C-T called Charlie's views "the biggest load of B.S." that he had "ever seen posted here." Charlie (understandably?) responded with a sarcastic comment and C-T countered by accusing Charlie of "schoolboy name calling." I find it somewhat interesting that the "dyslexic ADHD moron" comment didn't garner that type of response.

farmerEd offered the last opinion that basically said that anyone who voted for Bush had a "below average intelligence..."

Perhaps it's my bias showing, but it seems that the opinions from the right are generally (not always) about the topic being discussed and the opinions from the left are too frequently about the intelligence of the presenter or the sanity of anyone sharing those views.

 

[laurence]

Re: Bush essentially Calls U.S. Treas Bonds 'Worth

Well #$%@#^$ you, oldbykur!

Seriously, I think there were some very intelligent points made at the beginning of this discussion by "left leaning" posters (I guess that includes me for the sake of this thread) but as with any discussion on politics, it got a little heated. It's human nature to see your side as "tough competitor" and their side as "dirty player". Case in point, you saw CT's comments as more abrasive than Charlie's, I think they both just took the gloves off for a moment and traded shot for shot. I like Charlie a lot, think he probably contributes more to this board than I do, but I feel his comment that the longest economic expansion in U.S. history was an "economic basket case" was a little off the mark. CT and MRGALT2U are pillars of the board, not every post has to be a master work of prose, everybody has to vent from time to time.

p.s., I'm assuming your comments about the nature of opinions was specific to this thread, because you only need to hear Rush or O'Reilly for twenty minutes or so to hear plenty of inflammatory put downs from the right.....