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Re: Bush's Real Legacy
Old 10-31-2006, 12:11 PM   #41
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Re: Bush's Real Legacy

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I would like to hear how the military is "trashed", when Clinton was the one who did the largest slashing of military budgets in the nation's history..........
Easy. Pretend there is a big problem somewhere on the planet that needs the intervention of the US military (for real this time, not some trumped up nonsense cooked up to finish Daddy's business). Something like the Sudan invading Egypt, a North Korean issue, a beligerant Iran going after Turkey, whatever. Where would you like to pull troops out of to respond? What shape do you think those units will be in? How much longer do you plan on stop-lossing soldiers?
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Re: Bush's Real Legacy
Old 10-31-2006, 12:27 PM   #42
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Re: Bush's Real Legacy

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. . . You really think Gore and Lieberman would have done a good job post-9/11? :P :P :P
. . .
Yes. I can't imagine them doing a worse job than chimpy. What is it that you think was done well?
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Re: Bush's Real Legacy
Old 10-31-2006, 12:32 PM   #43
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Re: Bush's Real Legacy

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Yes. I can't imagine them doing a worse job than chimpy. What is it that you think was done well?
He already told us: tax cuts for the wealthy and lots of military spending.
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Re: Bush's Real Legacy
Old 10-31-2006, 01:39 PM   #44
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Re: Bush's Real Legacy

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Originally Posted by brewer12345
Easy. Pretend there is a big problem somewhere on the planet that needs the intervention of the US military (for real this time, not some trumped up nonsense cooked up to finish Daddy's business). Something like the Sudan invading Egypt, a North Korean issue, a beligerant Iran going after Turkey, whatever. Where would you like to pull troops out of to respond? What shape do you think those units will be in? How much longer do you plan on stop-lossing soldiers?
Not all of the troops are being deployed. There are some who are in a stand down position. The situation you are presenting is what the military had been cut to under Bush I. The feds can call up for an indefinite amount of time, the National Guard and the Reserves. Granted some of those troops have been used, but in a far more limited capacity than is possible. Not too mention many active duty forces, though they have been deployed, can stay in theater for much longer periods. The out and come back for a period of stand down is something relatively new coming from about Vietnam.

That is just the US troops, don't forget about the French German, Russian, Italian, and various other countries that have a respectable military that are not deployed heavily.

It's interesting to see people who blame Bush for a recession are the same one who say he doesn't have control of the economy during the good times. :
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Re: Bush's Real Legacy
Old 10-31-2006, 01:56 PM   #45
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Re: Bush's Real Legacy

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It's interesting to see people who blame Bush for a recession are the same one who say he doesn't have control of the economy during the good times. :
Yes, it reminds me of people who did the same with Clinton.
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Re: Bush's Real Legacy
Old 10-31-2006, 01:56 PM   #46
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Re: Bush's Real Legacy

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It's interesting to see people who blame Bush for a recession are the same one who say he doesn't have control of the economy during the good times. :
Eh, the recession was already in the cards when Dopey took the reins. Big bubbles usually result in nasty downward swings. Housing-led recession, anyone? That should just about completely sink and R hopes of putting another disaster candidate in the WH in 2008. Not that I think it makes sense, but the Merkin public has an attention span about as long as their genitalia, so a spike in unemployment tends to result in blame being placed on the incumbent and his party.
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Re: Bush's Real Legacy
Old 10-31-2006, 03:18 PM   #47
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Re: Bush's Real Legacy

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Oh, that's right, all you care about is Iraq.............
Yeah . . . that darn thing about killing people by the tens of thousands because they . . . well . . . because they . .. . well, just because. . .

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Re: Bush's Real Legacy
Old 10-31-2006, 03:21 PM   #48
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Re: Bush's Real Legacy

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Originally Posted by brewer12345
Easy. Pretend there is a big problem somewhere on the planet that needs the intervention of the US military (for real this time, not some trumped up nonsense cooked up to finish Daddy's business). Something like the Sudan invading Egypt, a North Korean issue, a beligerant Iran going after Turkey, whatever. Where would you like to pull troops out of to respond? What shape do you think those units will be in? How much longer do you plan on stop-lossing soldiers?
I'm not the Joint Chiefs, deciding where to send troops and tracking hotspots. Since when does the US military have to do ALL the world's military work? Sudan wouldn't get far in Egypt, North Korea may invade South Korea, but that is doubtful considering China isn't too happy about it, and what good does invading Turkey do to Iran?

You're cooking up "maybe's", not concrete facts...............
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Re: Bush's Real Legacy
Old 10-31-2006, 03:34 PM   #49
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Re: Bush's Real Legacy

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Since when does the US military have to do ALL the world's military work?
Since the Supreme Court put King George on the throne, apparently.
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Re: Bush's Real Legacy
Old 10-31-2006, 03:41 PM   #50
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Re: Bush's Real Legacy

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Since the Supreme Court put King George on the throne, apparently.
Ah ha..........now we have the REAL ISSUE........... You're one of those folks who think the Supreme Court GAVE the election to Bush and company. Interesting..........

Brewster, you're a smart guy, why were the Florida election commission and the Florida state Supreme Court wringing their hands and wondering what to do?

What the Supreme Court basically did was tell the Florida Supreme Court to "do your jobs"............is that not within the jurisdiction of the highest court?

Man, that was SIX YEARS AGO!!
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Re: Bush's Real Legacy
Old 10-31-2006, 03:44 PM   #51
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Re: Bush's Real Legacy

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Ah ha..........now we have the REAL ISSUE........... You're one of those folks who think the Supreme Court GAVE the election to Bush and company. Interesting..........

Brewster, you're a smart guy, why were the Florida election commission and the Florida state Supreme Court wringing their hands and wondering what to do?

What the Supreme Court basically did was tell the Florida Supreme Court to "do your jobs"............is that not within the jurisdiction of the highest court?

Man, that was SIX YEARS AGO!!
The election was close enough that it should not have been decided by the courts.

But, as you say, we've all passed a lot of water since then. I am a big believer in paying attention to what is a sunk cost and acting accordingly. So I care a lot more about the 2006 election than I do about the 2000 election.
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Re: Bush's Real Legacy
Old 10-31-2006, 03:49 PM   #52
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Re: Bush's Real Legacy

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The election was close enough that it should not have been decided by the courts.

But, as you say, we've all passed a lot of water since then. I am a big believer in paying attention to what is a sunk cost and acting accordingly. So I care a lot more about the 2006 election than I do about the 2000 election.
And next week, I beleive the Dems will end up with a majority in Congress, and the following will happen:

1)Nancy Pelosi will be Madame Speaker (yuck)

2)Impeachment proceedings will immediately commence against Bush

3)The Congress will attempt to raise taxes to finance the war, and Bush will veto over and over again.

4)We'll have a stalemate in Congress and a lame duck President for two years.......

5)It will be a mess, either way, and we, the American people get to witness the carnage................
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Re: Bush's Real Legacy
Old 10-31-2006, 03:55 PM   #53
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Re: Bush's Real Legacy

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And next week, I beleive the Dems will end up with a majority in Congress, and the following will happen:

1)Nancy Pelosi will be Madame Speaker (yuck)

2)Impeachment proceedings will immediately commence against Bush

3)The Congress will attempt to raise taxes to finance the war, and Bush will veto over and over again.

4)We'll have a stalemate in Congress and a lame duck President for two years.......

5)It will be a mess, either way, and we, the American people get to witness the carnage................
1) hopefully, minus the yuck.

2) Highly unlikely. There is a lot of other very pressing business to attend to, and there isn't a lot of point in doing so unless the Democrats gain the Senate, too. It would be a sideshow anyway, unfortunately.

3) I think a tax increase is in the cards no matter who is running the show. The currrent state of affairs is obviously unsustainable. It may well come in the form of the recent tax cuts being allowed to expire and AMT eating more of the middle class, but it is coming.

4) I don't think there will be a stalemate unless the pResident decides he will not compromise. Bipartisanship has been distinctly lacking for years, and it remains to be seen whether King George will consent to work with a Congress run by Democrats. It also remains to be seen if the Democrats will be out for some payback (some will, not sure about the party leadership).

5) Its been that way as long as I can remember. As a student of Merkin history, it appears to have been that way since the creation of the Merkin Gummint.
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Re: Bush's Real Legacy
Old 10-31-2006, 03:59 PM   #54
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Re: Bush's Real Legacy

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1) hopefully, minus the yuck.

2) Highly unlikely. There is a lot of other very pressing business to attend to, and there isn't a lot of point in doing so unless the Democrats gain the Senate, too. It would be a sideshow anyway, unfortunately.

3) I think a tax increase is in the cards no matter who is running the show. The currrent state of affairs is obviously unsustainable. It may well come in the form of the recent tax cuts being allowed to expire and AMT eating more of the middle class, but it is coming.

4) I don't think there will be a stalemate unless the pResident decides he will not compromise. Bipartisanship has been distinctly lacking for years, and it remains to be seen whether King George will consent to work with a Congress run by Democrats. It also remains to be seen if the Democrats will be out for some payback (some will, not sure about the party leadership).

5) Its been that way as long as I can remember. As a student of Merkin history, it appears to have been that way since the creation of the Merkin Gummint.
I believe we have reached a bipartisan agreement, brewer. Perhaps the Congress can learn from our simple exercise...........
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Re: Bush's Real Legacy
Old 10-31-2006, 04:21 PM   #55
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Re: Bush's Real Legacy

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3)The Congress will attempt to raise taxes to finance the war, and Bush will veto over and over again.
Hey, even Reagan increased taxes -- the largest tax increase since WWII.
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Re: Bush's Real Legacy
Old 10-31-2006, 05:46 PM   #56
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Re: Bush's Real Legacy

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3)The Congress will attempt to raise taxes to finance the war, and Bush will veto over and over again.

4)We'll have a stalemate in Congress and a lame duck President for two years.......
3. That'd be a first...

4. Jolly good...
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Re: Bush's Real Legacy
Old 10-31-2006, 05:50 PM   #57
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Re: Bush's Real Legacy

Brewer12345,

How do you live with all the hate inside you? Get some help.
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Re: Bush's Real Legacy
Old 10-31-2006, 06:36 PM   #58
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Re: Bush's Real Legacy

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In contrast, the current thread made a statement implying that everyone now recognized Nixon to be a great President. I've never talked to anyone who believed that Nixon was a great President, and have talked so some who think he is not a great President. The reasoning goes something like this:
First off.... it was NOT youbet that made that statement... it was ME.... and YOU quote me wrong... see below

"Take Nixon... the only president that resigned in disgrace (Clinton just could not do it.. wasn't ashamed I guess...) but now looked on as a 'good' president.. "

NOWHERE do I say EVERYBODY sees Nixon as a great president... I said 'good'... and then I backed it up with information that some historian said he might have been 'great' or 'near great' if it was not for his other problems... but you seem to ignore that reference and go with the same thing you claim we are doing... talk to X and make a statement...

At least get your facts straight from what people have written in this thread...
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Re: Bush's Real Legacy
Old 10-31-2006, 06:40 PM   #59
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Re: Bush's Real Legacy

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I cannot fathom how anyone could consider the current occupant of the Oval Offce (not Dirty Dick) to be a success. Can one of the true believers articulate why they think this is a great pResidency?
I am not trying... I think he has done a crap job... along with the Repub congress... but the post was that in the FUTURE he might be looked upon in a much better light than he is now... and I am backing that up with how some historians are looking at Nixon... when he resigned, it would be hard pressed to get people to say he was even a 'good' president...

If the Middle East does get democratized... and they trace it back to the Iraq war and other things Bush has done.... he will get many brownie points and be seen as a visionary.... now, I will not put any money on it, but it could happen... and you can not say it can not...
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Re: Bush's Real Legacy
Old 10-31-2006, 06:50 PM   #60
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Re: Bush's Real Legacy

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First off.... it was NOT youbet that made that statement... it was ME....
I did not miss that point. I was commenting on his arguments, and I did not quote you at all.
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