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Bush's Real Legacy
Old 10-30-2006, 07:39 PM   #1
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Bush's Real Legacy

Years after Iraq is history and regardless of the outcome, John Roberts and Sam Alito are going to be deciding cases that impact our lives and the lives of our children. Could this be Bush's real legacy? And if he gets one more?
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Re: Bush's Real Legacy
Old 10-30-2006, 07:53 PM   #2
 
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Re: Bush's Real Legacy

Quote:
Originally Posted by Arc
Years after Iraq is history and regardless of the outcome, John Roberts and Sam Alito are going to be deciding cases that impact our lives and the lives of our children. Could this be Bush's real legacy? And if he gets one more?
Wishful thinking - Bush will go down as a complete failure that ran the country into a ditch.
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Re: Bush's Real Legacy
Old 10-30-2006, 07:58 PM   #3
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Re: Bush's Real Legacy

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Originally Posted by Cut-Throat
Wishful thinking - Bush will go down as a complete failure that ran the country into a ditch.
Well, if that's the case (and I'm not sure it is), then it will have taken Bush 8 years to do what Carter managed to do in only 4!
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Re: Bush's Real Legacy
Old 10-30-2006, 08:18 PM   #4
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Re: Bush's Real Legacy

I've said it before and I'll say it again now. Presidents can not be effectively evaluated for at least 50 years. Since people are living longer, the time may stretch to 75 years.

FDR is going to remain a highly rated president. Unfortunately, the dem elite are working on sainthood status for him. I've seen people that have questioned his tax proposals, attempt to stack the Supreme Court and other issues be effectively belittled and attacked for mearly questioning any decision or program of the "greatest American president that ever lived."

Carter as a one term president and his failure to rise to the challenges of his only term don't bode well for him into the future. The attacks on Bush II are premature and seem to be "rants" at this point. I would certainly have wished other decisions to be made than what I've seen but I didn't run for president.

I agree that Supreme Court appointments are usually the longest lasting legacy of most presidents. They don't always turn out as hoped (by the appointing president). Burger was appointed by Nixon. If for no other reason than Roe v. Wade, the conservatives were very disappointed.
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Re: Bush's Real Legacy
Old 10-30-2006, 08:18 PM   #5
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Re: Bush's Real Legacy

No bush ran us into the ditch well before 2004.

The day we attacked Iraq is the turning point for me. While bin laden and al zwahiri remain free.
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Re: Bush's Real Legacy
Old 10-30-2006, 10:16 PM   #6
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Re: Bush's Real Legacy

Bushe's legacy...hmmm. How about: Sometimes you go forth with the lame excuses you have rather than the solid achievements you wish for.
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Re: Bush's Real Legacy
Old 10-30-2006, 10:33 PM   #7
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Re: Bush's Real Legacy

As one says... legacy is strange...

Take Nixon... the only president that resigned in disgrace (Clinton just could not do it.. wasn't ashamed I guess...) but now looked on as a 'good' president..

I just don't see it...

He put in price controls, had a strange gas policy that created the gas crisis... inflation was out of control... but, he opened China..
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Re: Bush's Real Legacy
Old 10-30-2006, 11:21 PM   #8
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Re: Bush's Real Legacy

Quote:
Originally Posted by 2B
I've said it before and I'll say it again now. Presidents can not be effectively evaluated for at least 50 years. Since people are living longer, the time may stretch to 75 years.

FDR is going to remain a highly rated president. Unfortunately, the dem elite are working on sainthood status for him. I've seen people that have questioned his tax proposals, attempt to stack the Supreme Court and other issues be effectively belittled and attacked for mearly questioning any decision or program of the "greatest American president that ever lived."

Carter as a one term president and his failure to rise to the challenges of his only term don't bode well for him into the future. The attacks on Bush II are premature and seem to be "rants" at this point. I would certainly have wished other decisions to be made than what I've seen but I didn't run for president.

I agree that Supreme Court appointments are usually the longest lasting legacy of most presidents. They don't always turn out as hoped (by the appointing president). Burger was appointed by Nixon. If for no other reason than Roe v. Wade, the conservatives were very disappointed.

50 - 75 Years - My goodness - Clinton's quest to rewrite his legacy is a bigger job than he anticipated. Think about it, in 50 years his legacy is going to be 75 years old. And when people see Monica at 75 (not going to be a pretty sight) and ask "Bill did what with her?," all that legacy building will be for nothing.
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Re: Bush's Real Legacy
Old 10-31-2006, 12:10 AM   #9
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Re: Bush's Real Legacy

Quote:
Originally Posted by 2B
I've said it before and I'll say it again now. Presidents can not be effectively evaluated for at least 50 years. Since people are living longer, the time may stretch to 75 years.

. . .
You can say this as many times as you want. I don't believe this at all. A President can do all the right things and have everything counteracted by another administration that follows them in 4, 8, 12, ... years. 50 years? . . . that is 7x infinity in political time constants today. In contrast, a President can do everything wrong but have his/her administration followed by an effective administration that eliminates the long term damage they might have done.

As far as GWB goes, you can delude yourself into believing that history may be kind to him . . . but losing an unjustified war with questionable goals is not a good start. Driving the deficit to historic world record levels is not a good start. Supporting the torture of prisoners is not a good start. Somehow it is hard for me to see how making speeches in favor of god and guns or opposing gays is going to allow historians to consider this man as a good President.
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Re: Bush's Real Legacy
Old 10-31-2006, 12:13 AM   #10
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Re: Bush's Real Legacy

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Originally Posted by Texas Proud

Take Nixon... the only president that resigned in disgrace . . . but now looked on as a 'good' president..
By who? The man was a crook. Everyone I know (even knee-jerk Republicans) still consider him an embarrasment.
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Re: Bush's Real Legacy
Old 10-31-2006, 12:18 AM   #11
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Re: Bush's Real Legacy

What a strange thread. All these diehard Republicans want to talk about how it is too early to tell whether GWB is really an incompetent charlatan or a great leader, about how Nixon is not a crook like we originally thought but that time has shown him to be a great leader. But these same people also want to declare that Clinton is a complete failure. This, they know already.

Yeah . . . It's Clinton's fault. That's what I always say.
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Re: Bush's Real Legacy
Old 10-31-2006, 12:42 AM   #12
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Re: Bush's Real Legacy

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Originally Posted by sgeeeee
Everyone I know
There's that long list of ficticious characters again!
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Re: Bush's Real Legacy
Old 10-31-2006, 12:58 AM   #13
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Re: Bush's Real Legacy

Quote:
Originally Posted by youbet
There's that long list of ficticious characters again!
Hi youbet,

There is a different context here than in my previous discussion of your earlier post. The original statement here was, "Take Nixon... the only president that resigned in disgrace (Clinton just could not do it.. wasn't ashamed I guess...) but now looked on as a 'good' president.." This is an unjustified assertion. I first asked who made such an assertion, then admited that my only experience was with people I knew who all believed otherwise. My post was not a justification for a statement I made, but a request for sources.

In the thread that you refer to implicitly, I asked you a specific question about how many people you were basing your broad assertions on. You never answered that question, but instead made additional broad statements about unspecified people.

If you still don't understand the difference, just ask. I will be happy to explain logical analysis to you to whatever level is required for you to grasp the difference.
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Re: Bush's Real Legacy
Old 10-31-2006, 01:11 AM   #14
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Re: Bush's Real Legacy

So, who is this "everyone I know" group of folks?
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Re: Bush's Real Legacy
Old 10-31-2006, 03:34 AM   #15
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Re: Bush's Real Legacy

Certainly Supreme Court appointments will carry on a lasting legacy. Personally I will remember him as a God fearing man who did his best.
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Re: Bush's Real Legacy
Old 10-31-2006, 03:44 AM   #16
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Re: Bush's Real Legacy

Quote:
Originally Posted by sgeeeee
What a strange thread. All these diehard Republicans want to talk about how it is too early to tell whether GWB is really an incompetent charlatan or a great leader, about how Nixon is not a crook like we originally thought but that time has shown him to be a great leader.
The perceptions of Nixon and Bush may be relative. I thought that Nixon was an incompetent crook, until Bush came along and set a completely new standard. Now even Nixon doesn't look too bad. But you're right -- it's really all Clinton's fault!

The people who still defend Bush are Republicans in name only, and certainly are not conservatives in any meaningful sense.
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Re: Bush's Real Legacy
Old 10-31-2006, 04:23 AM   #17
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Re: Bush's Real Legacy

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Originally Posted by jeff2006


The people who still defend Bush are Republicans in name only, and certainly are not conservatives in any meaningful sense.
That's the way I see it.

JG
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Re: Bush's Real Legacy
Old 10-31-2006, 04:31 AM   #18
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Re: Bush's Real Legacy

Quote:
Originally Posted by sgeeeee
Hi youbet,

There is a different context here than in my previous discussion of your earlier post. The original statement here was, "Take Nixon... the only president that resigned in disgrace (Clinton just could not do it.. wasn't ashamed I guess...) but now looked on as a 'good' president.." This is an unjustified assertion. I first asked who made such an assertion, then admited that my only experience was with people I knew who all believed otherwise. My post was not a justification for a statement I made, but a request for sources.

In the thread that you refer to implicitly, I asked you a specific question about how many people you were basing your broad assertions on. You never answered that question, but instead made additional broad statements about unspecified people.

If you still don't understand the difference, just ask. I will be happy to explain logical analysis to you to whatever level is required for you to grasp the difference.
Semantics, boys. Semantics.

JG
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Re: Bush's Real Legacy
Old 10-31-2006, 04:41 AM   #19
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Re: Bush's Real Legacy

Quote:
Originally Posted by sgeeeee
Somehow it is hard for me to see how making speeches in favor of god and guns or opposing gays is going to allow historians to consider this man as a good President.
Perhaps not, but some of us like it. In fact, his staking out these positions
is one thing that I still find appealing about the guy. That and his stubborn-
sure of his positions confidence,
which reminds me of someone else I admire very much.

JG
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Re: Bush's Real Legacy
Old 10-31-2006, 04:52 AM   #20
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Re: Bush's Real Legacy

Quote:
Originally Posted by Arc

And when people see Monica at 75 (not going to be a pretty sight) and ask "Bill did what with her?," all that legacy building will be for nothing.
Monica wasn't really "a pretty sight" at the time IMHO.

JG
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