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Old 04-16-2012, 10:01 PM   #21
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For all you folks that are saying leasing is a bad investment and the only way to save money is to either buy new and if not that, at least a good used car. And for all you folks that insist on driving a car till the wheels fall off, just to save some money, I'll say this for one last time, I'M NOT TRYING TO SAVE MONEY WHEN I BUY A CAR. I'M EXPECTING TO SPEND MONEY.
OK Johnnie, no need to yell. As long as you know your spending more than you should, I'm happy.
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Old 04-17-2012, 05:21 AM   #22
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I am close to what many others say. Why not just rent a car and drop off when you reach your destination (Honestly not too sure if such thing exists in the US but have done many a times in Europe), unless you plan to use it during your stay.
So far with my limited research, everyone tells me that leasing is becoming more and more of a sham and you ALWAYS end up paying more than what they tell you. Also, some dealers are notorious about squeezing money out at the end of lease with various tricks. For me, its just too much of headache to deal with.

Hybrids do not offer any advantage on highway driving but if you do go that route, do check on car repairs on the parts those are new to the industry like battery and battery related engine issues etc. NY Times ran an article that essentially said that the cost of these repairs defeats the savings you make by using a hybrid vehicle (unless you go for something like Nissan Leaf, still its not too economical)
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Old 04-17-2012, 07:38 AM   #23
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I think 73SS said it in another post with respect to a car deal, and this probably could apply to leasing or buying as well, as long as your happy, thats all that matters.

As for me, I do love my cars, but my days of changing exotic cars like a pair of pants are over. But being the big kid that I am, I wouldn't mind having a new ZL-1 Camaro in my garage.
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Old 04-17-2012, 08:25 AM   #24
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OK Johnnie, no need to yell. As long as you know your spending more than you should, I'm happy.
+1 We get it Johnnie - you know what you want and you don't care so much about the difference in cost. Most of us are not in that boat yet. I'm glad that you are.
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Old 04-17-2012, 08:26 AM   #25
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Hybrids are not so great on long trips. They get most of their gas savings in-city.

Get a used diesel VW Jetta if that's big enough for you to travel in.
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Hybrids do not offer any advantage on highway driving but if you do go that route, do check on car repairs on the parts those are new to the industry like battery and battery related engine issues etc. NY Times ran an article that essentially said that the cost of these repairs defeats the savings you make by using a hybrid vehicle (unless you go for something like Nissan Leaf, still its not too economical)
While it's true that hybrids really excel in city mpg, they also generally get higher highway mpg than gas ICE cars. Where there are models that are sold in hybrid and gas powered (ie, Fusion, Camry, Civic) city and highway mpg are significantly higher. I'm not aware of any gas car that can match a Prius or a Civic Hybrid among others on the highway or city. OTOH diesels CAN match hybrids on the highway, but gas powered cars don't all else equal. Not only EPA ratings, but the various real world mpg sites confirm relatively better mpg for hybrids (and diesels), see for yourself.

However, though I own a hybrid, even with our current high gas prices the payback to offset the upfront cost of a hybrid takes 5 to 10 years to break even.

The battery, maintenance and resale concerns are proving to be less of a concern than many thought, now that modern production hybrids have been mainstream for more than 14 years - Toyota passed the 2 million mark in 2010 with Prius and 3 million in 2011 for all their hybrid models worldwide, so there is some track record now.

There are still articles filled with hyperbole regarding hybrids, pro and con...
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Old 04-17-2012, 08:48 AM   #26
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Johnnie, get what you like. If you want to lease, do it. Pick something comfy. Econoboxes may get high mileage, but many of them are a chore to drive for a long distance.
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Old 04-17-2012, 08:56 AM   #27
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Johnnie, get what you like. If you want to lease, do it. Pick something comfy. Econoboxes may get high mileage, but many of them are a chore to drive for a long distance.
Except Johnnie was not the OP, who posed the original question.

We know that Johnnie buys what he wants, when he wants (everybody's different). It's his money (even though I don't necessarily spend it the way he does he can certainly do what he wishes).

As to the OP's question? I would rent for the trip; but of course, that's only me and what I would do, based upon my previous comments relating to leasing.

As to the question of do you have to return the car to the same rental location in the US? No. DW/me have done that often (along in Euroland/UK/Republic of Ireland) many times. There might be an additional charge if you are droping off the car at a remote location (they have to pay to "reposition" the vehicle) but even so, it's better than purchasing another vehicle, IMHO.
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Old 04-17-2012, 08:57 AM   #28
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For all you folks that are saying leasing is a bad investment and the only way to save money is to either buy new and if not that, at least a good used car. And for all you folks that insist on driving a car till the wheels fall off, just to save some money, I'll say this for one last time, I'M NOT TRYING TO SAVE MONEY WHEN I BUY A CAR. I'M EXPECTING TO SPEND MONEY.
I do not see where anybody quoted you and then said anything negative on leasing... but you seem to be taking it personally for some reason...

The OP ASKED which is better and why... so people are giving their opinions... you gave yours... others are giving theirs... why the hostility
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Old 04-17-2012, 08:58 AM   #29
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I do not see where anybody quoted you and then said anything negative on leasing... but you seem to be taking it personally for some reason...

The OP ASKED which is better and why... so people are giving their opinions... you gave yours... others are giving theirs... why the hostility
+1.
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Old 04-17-2012, 09:08 AM   #30
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Except Johnnie was not the OP, who posed the original question.
Ah, well, whaddaya want before the second cup of coffee?
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Old 04-17-2012, 09:50 AM   #31
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Ah, well, whaddaya want before the second cup of coffee?
As a (coffee?) "brewer", I thought you were up to the task ...

Yeah, these things happened (I also responded incorrectly this AM on another thread, and I had my coffee!)...
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Old 04-17-2012, 10:01 AM   #32
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I guess it's OK to side-jack the thread a bit at this point...

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While it's true that hybrids really excel in city mpg, they also generally get higher highway mpg than gas ICE cars. Where there are models that are sold in hybrid and gas powered (ie, Fusion, Camry, Civic) city and highway mpg are significantly higher.
I think that idea gets stuck in peoples head once they realize just how a hybrid works. A hybrid captures the energy lost from braking, stores it in the battery, and then uses that energy to help with acceleration. So it seems reasonable to think that it can't help on the highway with little braking, but...

What that misses is with the battery helping out with acceleration, the engine can be smaller. Most of engine size is there for acceleration, a very small engine can keep you moving at 65 mph. So a hybrid can get better highway mpg in the same way a 6 cyl can get better mpg than an 8 cyl. That's offset a bit from the weight of the electric motor and batteries.


Quote:
However, though I own a hybrid, even with our current high gas prices the payback to offset the upfront cost of a hybrid takes 5 to 10 years to break even.
I saw this in the Sunday paper, and was surprised. I thought hybrid owners were rabidly loyal:

Few hybrid vehicle owners are repeat buyers - chicagotribune.com

Quote:
Only 35% of hybrid owners chose another one when they bought a new car last year, automotive research firm R.L. Polk & Co. says. ... If you factor out the super-loyal Toyota Prius buyers, the repurchase rate drops to less than 25%.
They may not have accounted for hybrid buyers who bought EVs, but I would think that would be a small number.

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Thanks for the discussion
Old 04-17-2012, 12:45 PM   #33
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Thanks for the discussion

Didn't realize this would be so polarizing :^). I appreciate all the feedback. Lease sounded maybe too good, which is why I wanted to know the other side of it. I hadn't really considered renting, but when I think back I often did that for vacations with young children and a beater car. Just using the SUV is also a viable option. As long as it is well maintained no reason to be concerned with higher mileage. JOHNIE36 I hear your thoughts on this and agree with them for you. Thanks all.
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Old 04-17-2012, 12:50 PM   #34
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We have a 7 yo SUV with 80k and a 17 yo truck with 150k. Now in retirement we are looking for a comfortable, reliable vehicle for road trips visiting grown children in CA, TN , and TX (we live in MN). This vehicle will be used primarily for this purpose. We are weighing the option of leasing (2 or 3 year) this vehicle for the following reasons:

1. Lower payments
2. Always having a late model/reliable vehicle
3. Minimal maintenance costs
4. Easy to live within mileage limits
5. Easy to re-lease at end of term
6. Once the vehicle is no longer needed it can just be turned in at end of lease

We had previously leased three different vehicles while putting daughters through college, and that worked well (monthly cost $250-350).

Don't recall any discussions about leasing cars on this forum. Anyone else done this? Does this sound reasonable or why not? Thanks for input
I need to apologize for "shouting" in my posts about my stance on leasing. Although I may not have said it, I agree that leasing is not the most economical way to drive a car. For me it's just the best way. And, going back to the OP, the points mentioned all lean to leasing except for #4. From what I understand from my brother, you don't want to go over the alloted miles. He did and paid dearly. We don't drive over 10K a year so I always go for the low mileage lease.

Idnar7, I think your point #4 would take you out of leasing. It just looks like you will be driving more than 12k miles a year.
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Old 04-17-2012, 01:11 PM   #35
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All states are not equal when it comes to comes to the cost of leasing. Tax laws make TX one of the worst:

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Texas laws require that the lessor (the lease company) pay sales tax on the full value of any vehicle they buy from a dealer and lease back to a lessee (you and me). This is different from most other states in which no such tax is charged to the lessor, or the tax is administered in a different way.

Of course, Texas lessors don't want to absorb the cost of the tax. If they did, there would probably be no leasing in Texas. Therefore, the lease company simply passes along the tax bill to the leasing customer. The leasing customer therefore pays full sales tax just as if he was buying the vehicle, not leasing.
Texas Auto Leasing - Why Car Leasing is Not Better in Texas
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Old 04-17-2012, 01:28 PM   #36
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I need to apologize for "shouting" in my posts about my stance on leasing. Although I may not have said it, I agree that leasing is not the most economical way to drive a car. For me it's just the best way. And, going back to the OP, the points mentioned all lean to leasing except for #4. From what I understand from my brother, you don't want to go over the alloted miles. He did and paid dearly. We don't drive over 10K a year so I always go for the low mileage lease.

Idnar7, I think your point #4 would take you out of leasing. It just looks like you will be driving more than 12k miles a year.
My 82 year old father has done 2-year leases on Ram pickups for about 16 years now. This from a guy who has enough money to pay cash for a whole fleet of them. He likes having a warranty and roadside assistance. He knows it costs a lot more but does not care.........
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Old 04-17-2012, 01:30 PM   #37
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Johnnie, driving extra miles on a lease is no more expensive than staying within the limits of the lease. There is a part on your contract that states any miles over the allotted amount are paid for at so many cents per mile.

You can also pay for the extra miles up front. So if the lease is calculated at 15000 a year and you drive 18000 you just add that amount to your monthly payment. Sort of like "you can pay me now or you can pay me later".

The main problem with leasing is the % of the car you are using. The problem is that a car depreciates the fastest in the first few years and that's what you are paying for. Usually it's 50% or more. So if you lease a 30K car you are paying at least 15K every 3 years to drive that car. +tax and fees. You are also paying interest on the total amount of the car for the full term.

One poster stated that you only pay tax on the portion of the car you are using. This is correct but the problem is when you lease your next car you get to pay tax on the portion you are using on that one also. Most people will always need a car so you are always paying and boy do you pay.

If you own your car and also trade it in you also get that tax advantage so that advantage is neutralized.
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Old 04-17-2012, 01:42 PM   #38
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All states are not equal when it comes to comes to the cost of leasing. Tax laws make TX one of the worst:

Texas Auto Leasing - Why Car Leasing is Not Better in Texas

I remember reading that in other states they charge property taxes on leased vehicles... as far as I know, Texas does not...


I do wonder why other states do not charge a sales tax IOW, it seems that Texas is doing it correctly.... making the company that bought the car pay the sales tax on the car... I would think that Hertz and Avis have to pay a sales tax on the cars they lease....
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Old 04-17-2012, 01:49 PM   #39
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I do wonder why other states do not charge a sales tax IOW, it seems that Texas is doing it correctly.... making the company that bought the car pay the sales tax on the car... I would think that Hertz and Avis have to pay a sales tax on the cars they lease....
Not sure how rental equipment is taxed - does the local grocery store pay sales tax when they buy a carpet cleaning machine to place in their rental fleet? Or does the consumer pay sales tax when they rent the machine?
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Old 04-17-2012, 03:21 PM   #40
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Not sure how rental equipment is taxed - does the local grocery store pay sales tax when they buy a carpet cleaning machine to place in their rental fleet? Or does the consumer pay sales tax when they rent the machine?

Good point... I do not know...


Looking up in my sales tax book... it is imposed on sales of 'taxable items' except for sales for resale... since a rental is not a resale, I would think that there would not be any taxes... I do not see rental on the services list...


Opps... I just saw that Hertz and Avis may not have to pay a sales tax.. there is an exemption for motor vehicles rented for re-rental... hmmm, but they buy them don't they?...
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