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Old 12-16-2008, 09:51 AM   #81
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They are entitled to make a living after all. For the one hour you sit in the dealership every ten years I think you should learn to deal with it. If not maybe you should buy a used car out of someones driveway, problem solved.
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Wow. Talk about putting the cart before the horse. You sound like customers ought to be thankful for the business rather than the other way around. And I don't think anyone said that a business does not have the right to try to turn a profit.
Ziggy hit the nail on the head. This is the attitude of the Detroit 3 in the past and present and part of the reason they are looking for rescue from the government.

Yes, businesses have a right to try to sell their goods and services. But if they cram it down our throats, and make a fairly simple transaction into a multiple hour sit and wait, they will loose business.
At Toyota, my last two purchases took 30 minutes (total). One was cash, one credit.
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Old 12-16-2008, 09:55 AM   #82
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So, I guess the Toyota store that Andy went to was a bad one.
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Old 12-16-2008, 10:00 AM   #83
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We've had the multiple hour wait at a Honda dealer (once, but one was about 20 minutes) and at an Acura dealer, too--it's not related to the car manufacturer in our experience.

We never had anyone lean on us too hard for the extended warranty, rustproofing, or other services like that by the way (we've never bought them but we know people who swear by the extended warranty for a car so might consider that).
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Old 12-16-2008, 10:01 AM   #84
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Ziggy, so you're saying that the dealer is the one that slows the process. To some extent yes because you never know when people are going to come in to buy a car. So some times it's busy and sometimes it's slow. Nothing you can do about that on either side except make an appointment.

Do you think maybe the customer may slow the process a bit. Trying to decide what car, color, options, test drives, price etc.. If you want it to go fast just go in and take any car the salesperson wants you to have and pay list price and you'll be out real quick.
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Old 12-16-2008, 10:04 AM   #85
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Zathras, just keep shaking your head no, shouldn't be a problem for ya. And keep your mouth closed so the salespeople don't cram anything down there.
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Old 12-16-2008, 10:21 AM   #86
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73ss454, you are absolutely right, bad salespeople and bad managers exist at any brand of dealer.
I may have generalized too much, but in my own experience, I have had better service at Toyota and Mercedes dealers than I have at Ford or GM dealers with the exception of Saturn. I had great customer service at Saturn and was sorry to leave them.

Your statement though: "For the one hour you sit in the dealership every ten years I think you should learn to deal with it." seems to be the general attitude of GM's management. So in a way, I don't place full blame on the dealers and managers, they were trained by people who also had this entitlement attitude.

If a salesman doesn't give up on trying to sell me some extra after two attempts, that business won't get my business. I shouldn't have to defend myself from a mugging in order to buy a product.
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Old 12-16-2008, 10:29 AM   #87
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At Toyota, my last two purchases took 30 minutes (total). One was cash, one credit.
Sounds like a dream come true. The 3-4 hour wait (or was it 5 hours?) for a cash purchase of my last new car was at a Toyota dealer.

They didn't seem very busy, either. It only took me 20 minutes to decide on exactly the car I wanted, and to do the test drive.
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Old 12-16-2008, 10:45 AM   #88
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Geez, 73, listen to yourself.

Seems like an overzealous defense of a fellow car salesman, even if his approach did seem to be based on neglecting a customer and then not listening to him. I'm sorry if that's the guy's basis for making a living, but at least with methods like that he won't have to endure the pain for long.

Would you feel the same about bad customer treatment from a financial advisor, an annuity salesman, a realtor, or a waiter? Or would you give your business to people who treated you well? And would you accept the same defense of their "it's a tough living", "make an appointment" approach?

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Just remember that keeping a car like this long term can be expensive. The battery pack will have to be replaced at some point and they are very expensive, at least at this point.
If it were me and I was buying an electric I would look at pricing the manufacturers warranty and get as long term as you can. Then maybe 6 years or so from now with the warranty still in place selling the car out of your driveway won't be a problem. No one will be affraid of the car at that point if Toyota is backing it up.
If I was buying a camry or a corolla and it was gas I'd keep the car at least 10 years because of past performance. But with the new techonology in the prius we don't know what to expect 6 or 7 years from now. Repairs on an electric car should be very expensive I would imagine.
I think you're repeating assertions that are backed by anecdotes, not facts for the whole class of cars. While there have been failures for a variety of reasons, the battery packs don't "have" to be replaced in Priuses. Some fleet vehicles have hundreds of thousands of miles on them, and I don't see replacements as any more frequent than other cars needing engine rebuilds. Some do, the vast majority don't.

I'm not sure how much longer a Prius warranty can get.

While hybrid technology is less than the century of internal combustion engines, hybrids (not "electrics") have been around for over a decade and over seven years in the U.S. I think that hybrid repairs are overall no worse than any other car. It'd be interesting to see the side-by-side repair records for Civics & Camrys in their conventional & hybrid models.

Speaking of dropping car sales-- Craigslist. In the time Andy spent at his dealer I'd called a seller, taken a test drive, obtained a cashier's check, completed the sale, and registered the car at the DMV. A dealer has some significant advantages over individual sellers, and it's a shame to see them fritter away those benefits. Personally I've been able to find better deals from motivated sellers.

But, hey, no one has to take either of our opinions. PriusChat.com has links to the car's repair records, its ratings, and a number of mechanic's assessments. It'd be interesting to see what sort of reception your assertions receive over there.
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Old 12-16-2008, 11:00 AM   #89
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Nords, what makes you say it's bad treatment that people have to wait their turn if someone is ahead of them in the process. Why would this be considered neglect? Many businesses are busy at different time and sometimes you have to wait. Do you think that the people in the dealerships enjoy having people all over the place and they can't move the process along?

Take the case where everyone want's to buy a car on the last day of the month. Don't you think that this causes a slowdown of the process? No dealer sits around trying to figure out how to keep people sitting around the dealership. We always tried to make it as easy as possible for the customer but it doesn't always work out that way. Whether it's a customer slowing down the process having a hard time deciding which color they want or he dealership being busy, no one want's a backlog.

I still don't think this is neglect.
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Old 12-16-2008, 11:03 AM   #90
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Nords, FYI - I have been watching Craigslist for weeks. If I can find the right Prius from an individual I'll go that route.

If I go back to a dealership I will make sure the salesman knows that a condition of my sale is to skip the Business Manager step of the sales process. If I choose to buy an extended warranty, I will do so 6 months before the manufacturers warranty expires and I have more historical data to analyze in making that decision.
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Old 12-16-2008, 11:05 AM   #91
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Zathras, if I stopped trying to sell people things I wouldn't be retired today. The last dealer I worked I was there for 20 years. I don't think I would have lasted that long if I didn't do the right thing for customers. You can't please everyone but we did have a great customer base and many of our customers were the same people over and over again. My boss was in the same location for 54 years, we must have been doing something right.
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Old 12-16-2008, 11:34 AM   #92
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73ss454, I agree, which is why I didn't suggest, ask or imply that you stop trying to sell people things. Unless you equate high pressure sales and multiple hour waits as the same thing as offering an item one or two times?
As for a business being busy, I do understand that. However, I don't believe a business is well managed if it keeps customers waiting the better part of a business day. If this happens predictably, the business should take steps to alleviate that rush.
Of course, that is also taking into account the assumption that it IS busy when these long waits occur.
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Old 12-16-2008, 12:14 PM   #93
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The process is the process and most dealers spend a lot of time trying to make it easy. Backlogs are caused by a variety of things such as being busy or the customer trying to decide on stuff. How much of this time spent buying do you think is the customer trying to make decisions?
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Old 12-16-2008, 12:27 PM   #94
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When I bought my Honda Accord a few years ago, I emailed a bunch of dealers to get price quotes (I already knew what model I wanted, what color, options, etc) in November and waited. Some wrote back a few times giving me a better price each time. I waited until December 31st and that's when I bought my car. (I read some stuff that said that 12/31 was one of the best days to buy a car.)
This may not work for a used car however.

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Old 12-16-2008, 01:36 PM   #95
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I am sure customers being slow to make a decision plays a role.
However, again, if this is consistent, the business should attempt to address the issue.
If I have a good experience at a dealer, and a bad experience at another, guess which one I am going to
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Old 12-16-2008, 01:39 PM   #96
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I am sure customers being slow to make a decision plays a role.
However, again, if this is consistent, the business should attempt to address the issue.
If I have a good experience at a dealer, and a bad experience at another, guess which one I am going to
Yeah, we'll make people decide quicker, right.

Which dealer do I think you'll go to, my guess is the one with best price.
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Old 12-16-2008, 01:56 PM   #97
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Hehe, can't possibly be any other solutions to slow service, can there be 73ss454?
Why do we keep seeing the blame the customer attitude. Was that part of your training?
Luckily, some dealers have figured it out, others haven't. Those that don't, don't get my business, that simple.
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Old 12-16-2008, 02:05 PM   #98
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If those of you posting on this thread would like to continue discussing the subject in a collegial manner, please do so. Otherwise, no shoes, no shirt, no service....
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Old 12-16-2008, 02:52 PM   #99
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The process is the process and most dealers spend a lot of time trying to make it easy. Backlogs are caused by a variety of things such as being busy or the customer trying to decide on stuff. How much of this time spent buying do you think is the customer trying to make decisions?
I bought a Prius early this year, before gas prices spiked. (After gas futures started running up though. Market timing...) We got quotes over the Internet from a number of dealers for a specific package (#2) and color, and went with a dealer that had a good reputation and 3nd lowest bid (by $50).

We got to the dealership, tried the car, said we'd take it, and signed their offer document (not the real contract, just an agreement on which vehicle and price) at around 11:00 AM. The manager said it would be a few hours before they were ready with paperwork, so we said we were going to get an early lunch, and would be back at 1:00 PM if that was OK.

The poor guy freaked out. I think he was afraid we'd run and never come back. To reassure him we left our old car and keys there, sort of an informal deposit. Lots of restaurants within a block or two of his business, so walking was no problem.

After lunch, we finished up in about 45 minutes and were done. I think that dealership job just put too much pressure on the manager.
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Old 12-16-2008, 03:04 PM   #100
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Zathras, OK the one who delivers the car the fastest gets your business. Has nothing to do with price. Right

Maybe I was the one who figured it out, I retired.

Oh Yeah, I didn't need training, I was the trainer and my customers were well taken care of.
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