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Old 04-22-2012, 05:05 PM   #21
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Not all of Oregon (and Washington for that matter) is wet, although many of us don't mention that detail. Just look at the weather on the east side of the Cascade Mountains where you will find a semi-arid climate on a high plateau. Bend and Sunriver are popular, housing prices are down due to the housing implosion. They have very good medical care. The only minus, IMHO, is cold winters. If that is a concern be a snow bird and visit Tuscon or HI in the winter.
We also considered the eastern parts of both states, but as you said, it gets colder than we would like and probably hotter than we would like. I am not much for desert- like environments.

I also hate to be too far from the coast. Friday we took a day-cation to Half Moon Bay, ate fish tacos and chowder, walked down on the beach, and enjoyed the drive both ways. I cannot see giving that up.

As far as being a snowbird .... Well, I guess I would rather not live where I have to plan to leave every year, as that would also be hard on the budget.

Every place has its advantages and drawbacks, that's for sure. But in weighing all our choices these past 3 years, now that we have a choice not dictated by work, we still choose California. We would just like to find a place a little more laid-back than the Bay Area!
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Old 04-22-2012, 05:12 PM   #22
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I'm always amused at the attitude folks from other states take towards Illinois, California, and a few other places while cheerfully ignoring the financial situation of the USA. If California looks so problematic, please be so kind as to throw it out of the Union. Please?

I've run the numbers. Freed of unfounded federal mandates and the net outflow of taxes from California to the interior, California could balance its budget, and would run a budget surplus in the next few years. Unless it decides to gun up to the same degree as the US government defense budget, of course. With the state Guard, it maintains a military budget more like a typical country its size.

Hail Jeffersonia!
Some federal mandates, if tossed aside, might be replaced by state programs just as costly, so free from federal mandates does not automatically lead to improved financial conditions. I'm just nitpicking, though. The states you mention are quite productive, have large, diverse & active economies, and have enough wealth and generate enough income to pay their obligations. The question is not "can they?" but "are they willing?".
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Old 04-22-2012, 06:41 PM   #23
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I've lived in Northern California all my life. Beautiful state. In the state park behind us the creatures have no plans to move. We're staying too.

A few problems, what do you expect with a 37 million human population?

P.S. Some of the comments here make me think some people are "regionally challenged". I like to think we are all Americans first.
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Old 04-22-2012, 07:11 PM   #24
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Some federal mandates, if tossed aside, might be replaced by state programs just as costly, so free from federal mandates does not automatically lead to improved financial conditions. I'm just nitpicking, though. The states you mention are quite productive, have large, diverse & active economies, and have enough wealth and generate enough income to pay their obligations. The question is not "can they?" but "are they willing?".
M Paq is probably talking about the state moocher list, where California (and NY) send far more to the feds than they receive. Even if the federal mandates were voided, California would have the money to pay for the equivalent state programs. Unlike, say, New Mexico or many of the Southern States.

Long-term, Texas has a huge problem as well. Its deficit was nearly as large as California's (as a % of GDP) and it has a serious water problem. It also ignores education, ranking dead last in high school graduates. For the college bound, it ranks in the bottom 5 for both verbal and math SAT scores. Etc., etc.
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Old 04-22-2012, 07:13 PM   #25
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The article makes some valid points but I've lived in CA for most of the last 33 years and I have noticed that about every five years someone writes CA's obituary.

Like MichaelB I consider my lifestyle to be the determining factor in where I decide to live. There's no where else in the country that I can bicycle on a sunny day in January in shorts and a t-shirt and do a long, hard run in August without risking my health due to the heat and humidity and schedule a barbeque for the 4th of July and be 100% sure that it is not going to rain.

I do admit that on many issues I'm sympathetic with the "Green Cadre" and that I am fortunate enough to be able to enjoy the CA lifestyle without significant financial hardships. I like all the ethnic groups and especially the food. I like the wacky politics in places like Berkeley and Santa Cruz. I like living in the middle of the Silicon Valley tech community. I don't have a mortgage. I live in a modest but comfortable house in a nice, safe, quiet neighborhood. Sure I could sell my 1700 sq ft Silicon Valley house and buy a 5000 sq ft house on a couple of acres in many other states and have money left over but what good is that if I'm "trapped inside" for 6 months a year and spend half of my time cleaning the house and maintaining the yard and have to run the air conditioner all summer and the furnace all winter? I don't have to get on the freeway to get to work. I dislike commuter/car culture and my bicycle is my preferred mode of transportation. It is easy to live that lifestyle year round where I currently live. There are few things that I enjoy more than riding my bike through the redwood forests of the Santa Cruz mountains. I don't want them to be replaced by subdivisions.

In addition to CA I've lived on the East Coast and in the Rocky Mountain region. They are very nice communities and have many positive qualities but I plan to stay in CA for the duration. If you've never lived here but read all of the articles on the demise of CA that may be hard to understand.
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Old 04-22-2012, 10:28 PM   #26
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Oh, sorry. The 'State of Jefferson' is, approximately, the southern most Counties in Oregon, and northern most Counties in California. During the Civil War many of the residents aligned with the secessionists, they were immigrants from Missouri. I understand there was more than one fight in the bars over this issue. Some of my ancestors were doubtless in the middle of them.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jefferson_(Pacific_state)

Even today there is a large billboard off I-5 in Siskiyou or Shasta County proclaiming the 'State of Jefferson'. Today this is a reflection of the desire of some residents to secede from the State of California. Politically these counties are conservative (vs moderate or liberal).
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Old 04-23-2012, 08:28 AM   #27
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Quote:
Originally Posted by M Paquette View Post
I'm always amused at the attitude folks from other states take towards Illinois, California, and a few other places while cheerfully ignoring the financial situation of the USA.
Quote:
Originally Posted by mb View Post
The article makes some valid points but I've lived in CA for most of the last 33 years and I have noticed that about every five years someone writes CA's obituary.
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Originally Posted by Lsbcal View Post
I've lived in Northern California all my life. Beautiful state. In the state park behind us the creatures have no plans to move. We're staying too. A few problems, what do you expect with a 37 million human population? P.S. Some of the comments here make me think some people are "regionally challenged". I like to think we are all Americans first.

"I'm always amused" that long time CA residents who already have
  • established CA jobs/income,
  • property in CA - presumably own homes outright after so many years, maybe bought before real estate prices went thru the roof, and
  • grandfathered CA property tax increase protection
think someone like the OP from AZ and other out of state posters should have the same perspective & outlook as "33 year" and "all my life" CA residents. On top of the Federal fiscal concerns that impact all of us, CA faces more acute fiscal and other issues, seems like valid concerns for someone thinking of relocating. There's a reason population growth in CA has been at an all time low over the past 10 years or so.

This is again Prius owners expecting to convert Hummer owners and vice versa...
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Old 04-23-2012, 10:13 AM   #28
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What I said is merely an opinion from one Californian. I'm not saying others should conform to my opinion.

I stopped my 30 year long subscription to the WSJ in 2008 because it was costly and not adding value -- particularly the op-ed section which has a known political bias.

Here is perhaps a more objective view of the state's financial health. I'm not an expert on muni bonds and never owned any. With that proviso, if we compare the returns of some state long term muni bond funds from Vanguard we see there was a correction in 2008 where Calif bonds showed a relative decline. After that things have tracked pretty closely with other states. I think those markets know a lot more about the state's financial health then we posters here.

Chart of California LT bonds versus Florida and Ohio. Note we are not in Greek territory yet. The California fund has a 2.70% yield, Florida 2.65%, Ohio 2.59%.


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Old 04-23-2012, 10:14 AM   #29
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Quote:
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Hail Jeffersonia!

Odds are that on this forum only me & thee know what you are talking about.
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Old 04-23-2012, 10:16 AM   #30
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Oh, sorry. The 'State of Jefferson' is, approximately, the southern most Counties in Oregon, and northern most Counties in California. During the Civil War many of the residents aligned with the secessionists, they were immigrants from Missouri. I understand there was more than one fight in the bars over this issue. Some of my ancestors were doubtless in the middle of them.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jefferson_(Pacific_state)

Even today there is a large billboard off I-5 in Siskiyou or Shasta County proclaiming the 'State of Jefferson'. Today this is a reflection of the desire of some residents to secede from the State of California. Politically these counties are conservative (vs moderate or liberal).
The counties may be, but Ashland ain't.
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Old 04-23-2012, 10:26 AM   #31
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Ashland is a case unto itself.

Great town to visit, their theaters attract a huge following, but.. the only place in Oregon with a sales tax. There is a tax on restraunt meals for the purpose of helping pay for their new sewer treatment plant. The theory is that all those visitors use their toilets and the process starts with dining establishments.

Stay in Medford (10 miles north), pack a box lunch, and do your thing.
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Old 04-23-2012, 10:32 AM   #32
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I lived most of my life in California and there's a part of me that would love to go back to nicer weather and closer to old friends and family (not the Bay Area, though, more likely the Sierra foothills).

But given the political situation, the fiscal situation, the constant budgetary crises, a state income tax that can hit 9.3% with a $50K taxable income (and that ain't much in California), the massive property tax subsidy new homeowners give to those have owned for 30 years... I don't see it happening.
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Should I Stay or Should I Go?
Old 04-23-2012, 10:50 AM   #33
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Should I Stay or Should I Go?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Midpack View Post
"I'm always amused" that long time CA residents who already have
  • established CA jobs/income,
  • property in CA - presumably own homes outright after so many years, maybe bought before real estate prices went thru the roof, and
  • grandfathered CA property tax increase protection
think someone like the OP from AZ and other out of state posters should have the same perspective & outlook as "33 year" and "all my life" CA residents. On top of the Federal fiscal concerns that impact all of us, CA faces more acute fiscal and other issues, seems like valid concerns for someone thinking of relocating. There's a reason population growth in CA has been at an all time low over the past 10 years or so.


Of course I don't think those from out of state should have the same perspective or outlook that I do, nor did I perceive that tone in any other "I live in CA" post. I just thought we were sharing ideas about how we may have considered CA and its troubles in our retirement plans.

I didn't see that the issue was limited to those planning to relocate to CA. Maybe I misunderstood the OP.

For myself, I only shared those things that have entered in our consideration when thinking about whether to stay or go. I have lived in southern Illinois and southern Louisiana as well as in parts of TX and northern and southern CA. DH has lived in NC for a while while serving in the Army and has spent time in AZ and TX.

Living in those areas has helped us think about what is important to us in this time of our lives.

We got dragged up to the Bay Area from SoCal for DH's job 32 years ago. We didn't choose to come here. We owned a little house in San Diego Co., and when we moved up here, our house payment for the same kind of house was about double. The guy who moved us up here said we would take "a shellacking," and he was right.

Now that we have a choice, we are taking the time to look around and see if there is some place we would like better.

So far we haven't found it, but we have had many conversations about what we find appealing and what we don't choose to live with or without.

I would love to have more space around me than the 6000SF tract home lot that I live on; I would love to have more inside space than the 1400 SF I have. I would love to have a home newer than 50 years old (and it's not even a cute Victorian.)

On the other hand, as we age, that means that much less that we have to take care of or pay to heat and water.

You sure don't get a lot of house for your money in the Bay Area, but we all make tradeoffs, don't we?
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Old 04-23-2012, 11:02 AM   #34
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...(snip)...
I would love to have more space around me than the 6000SF tract home lot that I live on; I would love to have more inside space than the 1400 SF I have. I would love to have a home newer that 50 years old (and it's not even a cute Victorian.)

On the other hand, as we age, that means that much less that we have to take care of or pay to heat and water.

You sure don't get a lot of house for your money in the Bay Area, but we all make tradeoffs, don't we?
We lived in a 1500 SF house in Silicon Valley for 25 years. We fixed it up a lot but it was indeed small. The housing prices have been (relatively) outrageous for decades now.

I did a transfer 15 years ago to a city north of San Francisco. Better housing prices for what you get but still high.

The good news is that if you've been getting the good metropolitan pay that comes with a Bay Area job and if you've experienced the housing appreciation, then you are in a great financial position to make a move eventually -- as we did.

BTW, our son is graduating from college in San Diego and may have a job down there. He wants to stay in California for now. So I anticipate getting to see the situation from a younger person's perspective. Of course, right now he just would be happy in a nice apartment with a compatible roommate -- no desire to buy a house at present.
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Old 04-23-2012, 11:14 AM   #35
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You sure don't get a lot of house for your money in the Bay Area, but we all make tradeoffs, don't we?
True. Going from a 2500 sqft house in the South to a 1100 sqft apartment in San Francisco. Rent on the apartment will be 6 times as high as the mortgage payments on the house. Worth it? I think so.
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