Join Early Retirement Today
Reply
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread Display Modes
Re: Can someone remind me why we're in Iraq?
Old 05-14-2007, 12:05 PM   #41
Full time employment: Posting here.
 
Join Date: Mar 2005
Posts: 927
Re: Can someone remind me why we're in Iraq?

Cube-rat:

Lest your message of love and worry be lost in the political dust-up, let me return to your original post for just a moment and say that I'm so very sorry your son is in harm's way.

I cannot come close to imagining what that must be like, or how you are holding up as you wait for his return. Neither can I imagine what I / we could say to ease your mind. Words seem so useless at times like these.

The best we can do, perhaps, is to hold you and your son in our thoughts and in our prayers, and prepare to celebrate his safe return with you. In the meantime, I hope you have someone (counselor, dear friend, etc.) with whom you can share your fears and hopes.

Forgive me for not knowing as I've been a rare visitor here lately, but have you shared anything about your son with us? I'd like to know his first name and a little bit about what he's like, if you feel like telling us? (I understand, if not, of course.)

Very Best Wishes to you and your family,
Caroline


__________________

__________________
Caroline is offline   Reply With Quote
Join the #1 Early Retirement and Financial Independence Forum Today - It's Totally Free!

Are you planning to be financially independent as early as possible so you can live life on your own terms? Discuss successful investing strategies, asset allocation models, tax strategies and other related topics in our online forum community. Our members range from young folks just starting their journey to financial independence, military retirees and even multimillionaires. No matter where you fit in you'll find that Early-Retirement.org is a great community to join. Best of all it's totally FREE!

You are currently viewing our boards as a guest so you have limited access to our community. Please take the time to register and you will gain a lot of great new features including; the ability to participate in discussions, network with our members, see fewer ads, upload photographs, create a retirement blog, send private messages and so much, much more!

Re: Can someone remind me why we're in Iraq?
Old 05-14-2007, 12:20 PM   #42
Give me a museum and I'll fill it. (Picasso)
Give me a forum ...
HFWR's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2005
Location: Lawn chair in Texas
Posts: 12,964
Re: Can someone remind me why we're in Iraq?

One pov, from Best of Craigslist...

http://www.craigslist.org/about/best/sfo/309485032.html
__________________

__________________
Have Funds, Will Retire

...not doing anything of true substance...
HFWR is offline   Reply With Quote
Re: Can someone remind me why we're in Iraq?
Old 05-14-2007, 12:40 PM   #43
Recycles dryer sheets
perinova's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2006
Posts: 424
Re: Can someone remind me why we're in Iraq?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Cute Fuzzy Bunny
Heres the thing.

Who exactly would that benefit?

Nobody except the average josephine. On the other hand a lot of people are making some pretty good money in the oil biz these days. And a whole lot of people from this administration will be working for them in a couple of years, if they arent already.

Not that theres anything wrong with that.

In any case, in answer to cube rats original question (and how they heck can a young babe have a son old enough to be a soldier?)...

The primary concern is the proximity of radical nutjobs to the greater middle easts oil supply and Israel. Saddam was a fine buffer, disallowing radical religion and terrorists in general within his sphere of influence. Due to a number of issues, including his invasion of kuwait, and the politics thereafter...he wasnt really able to defend his own country.

In his absence, and without institution of a better buffer, its plausible that radical religious elements would seize much of the regions oil supply, lean on saudi arabia to fall in line, and start pushing the israeli's into the ocean. In that scenario, we end up going to war, its a much larger one, with possibility of nuclear exchange since the nutjobs dont have as much restraint as the soviets or chinese have. In fact, they'd like to die, en masse, and take us with them.

So the decision was made to insert US troops early, prop up iraq until such time as they can once again stand alone in a manner compatible with our meddling influence and hopefully avert a larger regional affair of likely greater consequences.

Unfortunately, the administration didnt want to tell the public "we're going in there to prop up our oil interests and political interests because we fracked around with saddam so long he cant hold up his own country anymore", so they made up a bunch of BS 9/11 stuff and WMD stuff, which let them get their foot in the door.

All that having been said, we walk away now and we've essentially accomplished nothing. In fact, we may easily accelerate the very process we wanted to avoid.

But theres no public sentiment to do otherwise.

I know this viewpoint is oft pooh-poohed. I suppose we'll know in time. Within 5 years either Iraq will work things out and resume their buffer role, the nutcases will take over but we'll successfully negotiate a reasonable peace, or we'll be engaged in world war III with tens or hundreds of thousands of casualties.

We'll see.
It's a very good post.

Yes Sadam Hussein was a convenient buffer in the old war by proxy which isn't possible today. Since he got weaker (by the western powers after his Koweit invasion) and Iran was getting stronger he needed to be taken out. Iran shiah world has always been what US was afraid of and it was time to do somehing about that part of the world; use the exceptional position of the US to increase influence in this part of the world (as the neocons like to say). So they went after the weakest link =Saddam to get there with in mind a progressive broadening of action.

Problem is the whole thing was miscalculated... They thought Irak would be an ally in the region not an imploded country with no govmt to speak of (except a puppet with no authority). How could they not know that Irak was a multi-ethnic group with a majority close to Iran?

Well maybe they knew and they calculated that they (Sunny+Shiah) soon would be busy destroying each other rather than us... If so they calculated properly. There would be no need to be there as an occupying force but they don't want Iran to meddle... My conclusion: That's why we are still there.
__________________
perinova is offline   Reply With Quote
Re: Can someone remind me why we're in Iraq?
Old 05-14-2007, 02:14 PM   #44
Thinks s/he gets paid by the post
Rustic23's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2005
Location: Lake Livingston, Tx
Posts: 3,624
Re: Can someone remind me why we're in Iraq?

Why are we in Iraq….. because we invaded it! Now there are all the reasons stated why we did that, but, I think there is another. Remember 9/11, well afterwards I think the administration looked around and asked ‘What are our options?” I think they looked around and saw several countries supporting terrorism, Iran, Korea, Iraq, Libya, Saudi Arabia, Syria, to name a few. They saw in Iraq a power that every intelligent agency in the world believed to be a threat. What better way to send a message to other countries, than to ‘wup up on Iraq’. Congress agreed willingly and so the message was sent. It appears several countries got that message. Libya decided it was not in their best interest to continue seeking WMD’s, Pakistan decided helping the US was a better option that opposing the US.

So there you go. It is never said, and it may not even be true, but I think that is one of the reasons we went into Iraq. If it is, you can see why a premature pull out would be a desaster. All those countries that got the message would get another message. ‘America can not tolerate a long war’. Attack America, take the counter attack, fight a prolonged propaganda battle, and America will sue for peace.
__________________
If it is after 5:00 when I post I reserve the right to disavow anything I posted.
Rustic23 is offline   Reply With Quote
Re: Can someone remind me why we're in Iraq?
Old 05-14-2007, 02:45 PM   #45
Moderator Emeritus
laurence's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2005
Location: San Diego
Posts: 5,234
Re: Can someone remind me why we're in Iraq?

"America can not tolerate a long war", fight a prolonged insurgency is small comfort to Saddam, since he's dead, and so are his sons. The leaders of other Middle East countries aren't going to care how soon invading U.S. forces leave if the result is the same, dead is dead!

I definitely sympathize with those who say this war was fought for the wrong reason, I mostly agree. But we KNOW there will be a bloodbath in Iraq if we leave. The question is either a) are we willing to accept that so we can get out? or b) is there a real difference from that scenario to what we have now (i.e. it's a bloodbath already)? The last numbers I saw was 100k dead and 2 million displaced. It's about on order of the crisis in the Sudan. So it may be true that there won't be a big change except for MSNBC posting positive stories and FOX news focusing on body counts...
__________________
laurence is offline   Reply With Quote
Re: Can someone remind me why we're in Iraq?
Old 05-14-2007, 03:18 PM   #46
Give me a museum and I'll fill it. (Picasso)
Give me a forum ...
clifp's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2006
Posts: 7,450
Re: Can someone remind me why we're in Iraq?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Rustic23
Why are we in Iraq….. because we invaded it! Now there are all the reasons stated why we did that, but, I think there is another. Remember 9/11, well afterwards I think the administration looked around and asked ‘What are our options?” I think they looked around and saw several countries supporting terrorism, Iran, Korea, Iraq, Libya, Saudi Arabia, Syria, to name a few. They saw in Iraq a power that every intelligent agency in the world believed to be a threat. What better way to send a message to other countries, than to ‘wup up on Iraq’. Congress agreed willingly and so the message was sent. It appears several countries got that message. Libya decided it was not in their best interest to continue seeking WMD’s, Pakistan decided helping the US was a better option that opposing the US.

So there you go. It is never said, and it may not even be true, but I think that is one of the reasons we went into Iraq. If it is, you can see why a premature pull out would be a desaster. All those countries that got the message would get another message. ‘America can not tolerate a long war’. Attack America, take the counter attack, fight a prolonged propaganda battle, and America will sue for peace.
I think there is a large element of truth to this, although war in Afghanistan made the point to Pakistan pretty clearly. It seems to me that after Afghanistan, when we looked at the future source of 9/11-like threat which include all the countries listed, you quickly come to the conclusion that AOS (all options stink) applies to all of the trouble spots. We can't invade North Korea because they may have nukes and Seoul would devestated by North Korea artillery. Iran is to big, we have no logistical bases close by, it isn't hated by enough people, and it would piss off Russia etc. Iraq was a country we had been engaged in a low-level war since April of 1991 (when Iraq started shooting at planes patrolling the no fly zone) we had good knowledge of their defenses and capabilities, and Saddam and sons were truely evil. Now going to war in Iraq stunk but it stunk less than the options of doing nothing or going after other bad guys/threats.

I thought Tony Blair said it best in his speech to Congress.

Some of these states are desperately trying to acquire nuclear weapons. We know that companies and individuals with expertise sell it to the highest bidder, and we know that at least one state, North Korea, lets its people starve while spending billions of dollars on developing nuclear weapons and exporting the technology abroad.

This isn't fantasy, it is 21st-century reality, and it confronts us now.

Can we be sure that terrorism and weapons of mass destruction will join together? Let us say one thing: If we are wrong, we will have destroyed a threat that at its least is responsible for inhuman carnage and suffering. That is something I am confident history will forgive.

But if our critics are wrong, if we are right, as I believe with every fiber of instinct and conviction I have that we are, and we do not act, then we will have hesitated in the face of this menace when we should have given leadership. That is something history will not forgive.


__________________
clifp is offline   Reply With Quote
Re: Can someone remind me why we're in Iraq?
Old 05-14-2007, 03:26 PM   #47
Thinks s/he gets paid by the post
JPatrick's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2005
Posts: 2,494
Re: Can someone remind me why we're in Iraq?

So it would appear that most would agree that Sadamm needed his butt kicked, but that this strategy was not what was needed. Many more ways to send that message without doing what we did.
Unless you are running for office or a born whiner I think we can agree that we can't turn back the clock and start over. Therefore, all the retoric on that subject is best left for the history books.
I also think we can agree the consequences of an abrupt pullout would not make pleasant reading.
Probably most believe we can't win this conflict in the streets so long as the enemy has an unlimited source of believers who will blow themselves up because some cleric mumbled some crap which made it right.
So shouldn't we be getting a little creative to end this thing? I don't know what it will take--a new flush toilet in every shack? HBO for everyone? OK. I jest, but not by much. Lets dance with the devil Iran --who cares--Get them to allow some democracy stability in Iraq. Then we will go home with the promise that if Iran/Syria screws with Iraq we will take their military out.. That my friends would be about 8 hours work in the case of Iran and a working lunch in the case of Syria. Seriously. The administration seems to making some moves in the direction of diplomacy. My fear is that it is all eye wash and that they still believe in plan A.
__________________
JPatrick is offline   Reply With Quote
Re: Can someone remind me why we're in Iraq?
Old 05-14-2007, 03:31 PM   #48
Thinks s/he gets paid by the post
JPatrick's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2005
Posts: 2,494
Re: Can someone remind me why we're in Iraq?

Quote:
Originally Posted by cube_rat
My son is somewhere in this f___ed up mess. I rarely pay attention to the news stories about Iraq because I can't dwell on the dangers my child is around on a daily basis. I would literally be a basket case if I watched CNN, or other news outlets.
CubeRat_____Many of the units in Iraq have created e-newsletters that go a very long way towards telling it like it is. They make much better reading than the accounts brought to us by our media. You might want to see if your sons unit has such a letter. Some of them are quite sophisticated as you might imagine given the times we live in.
__________________
JPatrick is offline   Reply With Quote
Re: Can someone remind me why we're in Iraq?
Old 05-14-2007, 03:54 PM   #49
Give me a museum and I'll fill it. (Picasso)
Give me a forum ...
brewer12345's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2003
Posts: 16,391
Re: Can someone remind me why we're in Iraq?

Quote:
Originally Posted by clifp
I think there is a large element of truth to this, although war in Afghanistan made the point to Pakistan pretty clearly. It seems to me that after Afghanistan, when we looked at the future source of 9/11-like threat which include all the countries listed, you quickly come to the conclusion that AOS (all options stink) applies to all of the trouble spots. We can't invade North Korea because they may have nukes and Seoul would devestated by North Korea artillery. Iran is to big, we have no logistical bases close by, it isn't hated by enough people, and it would piss off Russia etc. Iraq was a country we had been engaged in a low-level war since April of 1991 (when Iraq started shooting at planes patrolling the no fly zone) we had good knowledge of their defenses and capabilities, and Saddam and sons were truely evil. Now going to war in Iraq stunk but it stunk less than the options of doing nothing or going after other bad guys/threats.
So basically you are saying that the Merkin gummint decided that something had to be cut off, and they were not about to chop of either of their own testicles so instead they whacked off their left foot? Yeah, makes lots of sense.
__________________
"There are three kinds of men. The one that learns by reading. The few who learn by observation. The rest have to pee on the electric fence for themselves."



- Will Rogers
brewer12345 is offline   Reply With Quote
Re: Can someone remind me why we're in Iraq?
Old 05-14-2007, 06:27 PM   #50
Give me a museum and I'll fill it. (Picasso)
Give me a forum ...
clifp's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2006
Posts: 7,450
Re: Can someone remind me why we're in Iraq?

Quote:
Originally Posted by brewer12345
So basically you are saying that the Merkin gummint decided that something had to be cut off, and they were not about to chop of either of their own testicles so instead they whacked off their left foot? Yeah, makes lots of sense.
No I (and Blair far more eloquently) am saying that rather than the risk the infection spreading to the rest of the hand and the arm and losing the entire arm, we decided that amputating the tip of pinkie finger that had been infected for 12 years was best treatment. Now you can argue that we could have continue regular antibotic treatments (sanctions and bombing). But after learning that last time we let an illness (aka Afghanistan) go untreated it resulted in a very serious illness (9/11), amputation wasn't a bad option. Continuing to the do same actions with Saddam and sons and expecting different results is the definition of insanity. (Not to menition immoral with respect to the Iraqi people) Obviously there were some bad complications after the initial surgery, and thats how we got in the current mess.

Straining the analogy even more, using surgery to remove the prostate cancers of Iran and North Korea is probably not the best approach. Although ignoring them and the even bigger threat of radical Islamic jihadist is maybe even more stupid.
__________________
clifp is offline   Reply With Quote
Re: Can someone remind me why we're in Iraq?
Old 05-14-2007, 06:59 PM   #51
Moderator
bssc's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2005
Posts: 9,925
Re: Can someone remind me why we're in Iraq?

Quote:
Originally Posted by clifp
No I (and Blair far more eloquently) am saying that rather than the risk the infection spreading to the rest of the hand and the arm and losing the entire arm, we decided that amputating the tip of pinkie finger that had been infected for 12 years was best treatment. Now you can argue that we could have continue regular antibotic treatments (sanctions and bombing). But after learning that last time we let an illness (aka Afghanistan) go untreated it resulted in a very serious illness (9/11), amputation wasn't a bad option. Continuing to the do same actions with Saddam and sons and expecting different results is the definition of insanity. (Not to menition immoral with respect to the Iraqi people) Obviously there were some bad complications after the initial surgery, and thats how we got in the current mess.

Straining the analogy even more, using surgery to remove the prostate cancers of Iran and North Korea is probably not the best approach. Although ignoring them and the even bigger threat of radical Islamic jihadist is maybe even more stupid.
The issue I have with this analogy is that Saddam and Afghanistan were two different illnesses. Instead of going into Afghanistan with overwhelming forces and eliminating bin-Laden who is the source of the 9/11 disease, the USA switched midstream. It only committed 30,000 troops in Afghanistan versus some 120K in Iraq. It was like Bush stopped treating tuberculosis to go after a hangnail.

bin-Laden's forces attacked American Embassies in East Africa, the USS Cole and were responsible for 9/11. Saddam attacked Iran (I don't think many people complained and the US ended up supporting him), Kuwait (after Ambassador Gillespie seemed to signal it was OK) and tried to assassinate Bush senior (and failed).

bin-Laden's forces are religious fundamentalists. Saddam's forces are Sunni socialists who suppressed fundamentalists.

Portraying the two movements are an attempt to disguise the fact that

1) We never got bin-Laden, who was responsible for 9/11 and is still running around free 6 years later because we have dropped the ball

2) The Iraqi situation is a mess of our own making not related to 9/11.

These are two separate diseases.
__________________
Angels danced on the day that you were born.
bssc is offline   Reply With Quote
Re: Can someone remind me why we're in Iraq?
Old 05-14-2007, 07:46 PM   #52
Give me a museum and I'll fill it. (Picasso)
Give me a forum ...
cute fuzzy bunny's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2003
Location: Losing my whump
Posts: 22,697
Re: Can someone remind me why we're in Iraq?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Caroline
Lest your message of love and worry be lost in the political dust-up, let me return to your original post for just a moment and say that I'm so very sorry your son is in harm's way.
Please let me point out that it wasnt my intention to pass a mothers worry by and add to the political bs, but rather to reinforce that there might actually be decent reasons for being in a war, albeit at perhaps the wrong time, with the wrong strategy, run by buttheads, and with a less than desirable outcome.
__________________
Be fearful when others are greedy, and greedy when others are fearful. Just another form of "buy low, sell high" for those who have trouble with things. This rule is not universal. Do not buy a 1973 Pinto because everyone else is afraid of it.
cute fuzzy bunny is offline   Reply With Quote
Re: Can someone remind me why we're in Iraq?
Old 05-14-2007, 07:52 PM   #53
Give me a museum and I'll fill it. (Picasso)
Give me a forum ...
clifp's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2006
Posts: 7,450
Re: Can someone remind me why we're in Iraq?

Quote:
Originally Posted by bssc
The issue I have with this analogy is that Saddam and Afghanistan were two different illnesses. Instead of going into Afghanistan with overwhelming forces and eliminating bin-Laden who is the source of the 9/11 disease, the USA switched midstream. It only committed 30,000 troops in Afghanistan versus some 120K in Iraq. It was like Bush stopped treating tuberculosis to go after a hangnail.

bin-Laden's forces attacked American Embassies in East Africa, the USS Cole and were responsible for 9/11. Saddam attacked Iran (I don't think many people complained and the US ended up supporting him), Kuwait (after Ambassador Gillespie seemed to signal it was OK) and tried to assassinate Bush senior (and failed).

bin-Laden's forces are religious fundamentalists. Saddam's forces are Sunni socialists who suppressed fundamentalists.

Portraying the two movements are an attempt to disguise the fact that

1) We never got bin-Laden, who was responsible for 9/11 and is still running around free 6 years later because we have dropped the ball

2) The Iraqi situation is a mess of our own making not related to 9/11.

These are two separate diseases.
I agree that Iraq and Afghanistan are different problems. (lets kill the medical analogy) Where we disagree is how related they are. We are not at war just with Al Qaeda but with all radical islamic jihadist, that have the power to harm Americans and American interests. While it is true that Iraq had nothing to do with 9/11, it is is not true that Iraq had no terrorist. Abu Nidal the most infamous terrorist from the 1970s was living in Baghdad until he had a falling out with Saddam and was killed, we capture several wanted terrorist in Iraq, and Zarqawi himself after being wounded in Afghanistan went to Baghdad. Now I am guessing it isn't because the Baghdad hospitals offered the world class care but because Saddam was happy to help anybody who was fighting there joint enemy.

The secular nature of Iraq under Saddam is mostly a relic of early reforms from the Baath party in the 60s and 70s to modernize Iraq and rein in the clerics. Wahaddism had spread to Iraq under Saddam and he was increasingly becoming a good Muslim. If you read his speeches during the Iran-Iraq war there were only passing obligator praising of Allah, in contrast his speeches in the 90s were all about the need for good Muslim to destroy the great Satans of Israeal and the US. As recently as 2002, when most Arab countries where making at least token efforts to increase woman rights, Iraq under Saddam was going backward. For instance he legalized honor killings that year, and allowed local Islamic clerics/councils to enforce various Sharia laws.

I won't re-argue the event leading up to the first Gulf War, suffice to say I don't think you have all the data.

Regarding Afghanistan, while it would have been nice to put a 100K troops in Afghanistan, the reality is Afghanistan is probably the hardest place in the world for the US to fight a war. US troops require huge logistical support and we simply don't have transport aircraft to sustain a large force. The Soviet never exceeded a 100K troops and they border the country and had devil of time keeping their forces in supply.

The bulk of Afghanistan war was fought by a few thousand special force with much of the manpower supplied by the Northern Alliance. The only way NATO is able to sustain a the force we have there is because we have a built up the infrastructure of Aghanistan, none of this exist right after 9/11. So while it nice to play arm chair general and say we should have more troops in Afghanistan, short of seizing every commercial jet in the country, there just isn't a way to do this in a land locked country on the other side of the globe..
__________________
clifp is offline   Reply With Quote
Re: Can someone remind me why we're in Iraq?
Old 05-14-2007, 08:16 PM   #54
Moderator
bssc's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2005
Posts: 9,925
Re: Can someone remind me why we're in Iraq?

Well, while we can argue how many troops could be supplied in Afghanistan at any one time, and I would disagree with myself depending on how I was feeling at the time, you would have to agree that their could have been more troops in there. And, while nothing is certain, like the stock market, I think that having additional troops in country, as compared to relying on Northern Alliance troops of doubtful loyalty and ability, would have increased the odds of capturing Osama.

I also agree that Saddam started taking steps backwards because he was isolated and realized that he was losing his power base. I see that as a sign that the policy of containing him was working and that there would eventually be a successful coup. While the results may not have been any better than the situation now, at least there would not have been 3000+ American dead.

__________________
Angels danced on the day that you were born.
bssc is offline   Reply With Quote
Re: Can someone remind me why we're in Iraq?
Old 05-14-2007, 08:32 PM   #55
Give me a museum and I'll fill it. (Picasso)
Give me a forum ...
cute fuzzy bunny's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2003
Location: Losing my whump
Posts: 22,697
Re: Can someone remind me why we're in Iraq?

Yep you're right. Having the mullahs overthrow saddam and create a nice Iranq that started pushing Israel into the ocean and put the clamps on Saudi oil outflows to america would have resulted in far more than 3000 dead. Try 30,000.

But then again, maybe not.
__________________
Be fearful when others are greedy, and greedy when others are fearful. Just another form of "buy low, sell high" for those who have trouble with things. This rule is not universal. Do not buy a 1973 Pinto because everyone else is afraid of it.
cute fuzzy bunny is offline   Reply With Quote
Re: Can someone remind me why we're in Iraq?
Old 05-14-2007, 09:09 PM   #56
Thinks s/he gets paid by the post
Rustic23's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2005
Location: Lake Livingston, Tx
Posts: 3,624
Re: Can someone remind me why we're in Iraq?

As I read this thread, I am reminded of football…. Go for two…. Go for the run… go for the pass… Well Monday morning we all knew what the right answer was, however, in the heat of the game with the information the coach had, he made a decision. It is easier for us to see the decision was wrong, or right after we see the results. By the way, does the coach has the option of taking his ball and going home anytime…. We in the stands know better…. We know more than the coach…. The team… well even the guy next to us. We have better intel… we watch CNN! It is easy to criticize when we are not responsible for the outcome.
__________________
If it is after 5:00 when I post I reserve the right to disavow anything I posted.
Rustic23 is offline   Reply With Quote
Re: Can someone remind me why we're in Iraq?
Old 05-14-2007, 09:25 PM   #57
Moderator
bssc's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2005
Posts: 9,925
Re: Can someone remind me why we're in Iraq?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Cute Fuzzy Bunny
Yep you're right. Having the mullahs overthrow saddam and create a nice Iranq that started pushing Israel into the ocean and put the clamps on Saudi oil outflows to america would have resulted in far more than 3000 dead. Try 30,000.

But then again, maybe not.
Of course, that brings up the question of is it in the US national interest to support Israel. Or maybe the mullahs decide to create their own Islamic heaven on earth and zero Americans get killed.

After all, that was the same argument for attacking Iran when the mullahs took over there (and the Iranians control the Straits of Hormuz plus have bad blood with the Saudis.). Yet they never did and very few Americans ended up dead.

Its all guesswork and risk taking, like paying off your mortgage versus putting it into the market. However, with Foreign Policy, there is only one outcome and it has always been a form of entertainment to argue about the results. After all, what if Stonewall Jackson hadn't wandered off at Gettysburg, would it have made a difference. And what if Lee listened to Longstreet?
__________________
Angels danced on the day that you were born.
bssc is offline   Reply With Quote
Re: Can someone remind me why we're in Iraq?
Old 05-14-2007, 09:30 PM   #58
Give me a museum and I'll fill it. (Picasso)
Give me a forum ...
 
Join Date: May 2004
Posts: 11,615
Re: Can someone remind me why we're in Iraq?



Quote:
Originally Posted by Rustic23
We in the stands know better…. We know more than the coach…. The team… well even the guy next to us. We have better intel… we watch CNN! It is easy to criticize when we are not responsible for the outcome.

"Too bad all the people who know how to run the country are busy driving taxi cabs and cutting hair."

- George Burns.
__________________
"Freedom begins when you tell Mrs. Grundy to go fly a kite." - R. Heinlein
samclem is offline   Reply With Quote
Re: Can someone remind me why we're in Iraq?
Old 05-14-2007, 09:53 PM   #59
Give me a museum and I'll fill it. (Picasso)
Give me a forum ...
clifp's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2006
Posts: 7,450
Re: Can someone remind me why we're in Iraq?

Quote:
Originally Posted by samclem


"Too bad all the people who know how to run the country are busy driving taxi cabs and cutting hair."

- George Burns.
LOL, thank God for comedians. Although, I think today we are busy looking stuff up on the internet instead..

Ok back to arguing over asset allocation and funds vs individual stocks.
__________________
clifp is offline   Reply With Quote
Re: Can someone remind me why we're in Iraq?
Old 05-14-2007, 09:55 PM   #60
Moderator Emeritus
Nords's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2002
Location: Oahu
Posts: 26,616
Re: Can someone remind me why we're in Iraq?

Quote:
Originally Posted by bssc
Well, while we can argue how many troops could be supplied in Afghanistan at any one time, and I would disagree with myself depending on how I was feeling at the time, you would have to agree that their could have been more troops in there.
This is why the military should be under civil control but not the strategy & tactics...

And of course it made perfect sense to take the war zone's civil-affairs mission away from the Special Forces and give it to the State Dept.
__________________

__________________
*
*

The book written on E-R.org, "The Military Guide to Financial Independence and Retirement", on sale now! For more info see "About Me" in my profile.
I don't spend much time here anymore, so please send me a PM. Thanks.
Nords is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply


Currently Active Users Viewing This Thread: 1 (0 members and 1 guests)
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are Off
Pingbacks are Off
Refbacks are Off


Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
How long the old USSR in afghanistan and what Iraq looks like? newguy88 Other topics 7 05-21-2007 06:24 PM
Qaeda's Zawahri says Iraq bill shows U.S. defeat dex Other topics 9 05-07-2007 04:34 PM
U.S. Sends Surge of Homicidal Astronauts to Iraq frayne Other topics 0 02-12-2007 06:30 AM
interesting take on the Iraq war JohnEyles Other topics 0 01-16-2007 12:51 PM
Reporter returns from Iraq and tells what the 'regular Iraqi' believes.......... Cut-Throat Other topics 11 09-20-2006 06:33 PM

 

 
All times are GMT -6. The time now is 11:28 AM.
 
Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.8 Beta 1
Copyright ©2000 - 2017, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.