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Re: Can someone remind me why we're in Iraq?
Old 05-14-2007, 09:11 PM   #61
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Re: Can someone remind me why we're in Iraq?

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Originally Posted by Nords
This is why the military should be under civil control but not the strategy & tactics...

And of course it made perfect sense to take the war zone's civil-affairs mission away from the Special Forces and give it to the State Dept.
I remember my professor saying that during the rescue attempt in Tehran, Jimmy Carter was on the radio trying to micromanage everything from Washington. He compared this to the West German rescue of a Lufthansa jet and hostages in Mogadishu in 1977. The German commander turned his radio off, a la Patton, when Helmut Schmidt tried to give him orders.

Were you referring to the Washington Post Article about the DOD and State fighting it out over whether Saddam's factories should be reopened?
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Re: Can someone remind me why we're in Iraq?
Old 05-14-2007, 09:20 PM   #62
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Re: Can someone remind me why we're in Iraq?

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I remember my professor saying that during the rescue attempt in Tehran, Jimmy Carter was on the radio trying to micromanage everything from Washington.
Well, that's what you get when you let nuclear submariners run for elected office. (Hey, REW, I just realized that he was wun'a them there Democrats too, and maybe that's why they're extinct aboard submarines now!) From the stories my FIL tells of his CBS days, Carter's micromanagement & short fuse make Rickover look like the Dalai Lama.

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Originally Posted by bssc
Were you referring to the Washington Post Article about the DOD and State fighting it out over whether Saddam's factories should be reopened?
No, it's in "Masters of Chaos"-- one of the best of the very few factual Special Forces histories I've ever read.

The SF had moved into Iraqi towns and started rebuilding postwar grassroots govts from the local mullahs and the mid-grade retired Iraqi military-- not the generals but the majors & colonels. The SF were doing a decent job and getting fantastic intel when State stepped in and fired all the military from the posts that they'd just been appointed to (and were getting paid for). Kinda screwed up the "establishing credibility" and "building trust" portions of the post-war plan and led a lot of the ex-Iraqi military to turn their skills to other paid occupations...
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Re: Can someone remind me why we're in Iraq?
Old 05-14-2007, 09:23 PM   #63
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Re: Can someone remind me why we're in Iraq?

Cube, I don't have an answer to your question beside what others have already said. Just like the guy in the "Jarhead" movie said. Welcome to "the suck". ...I'm not trying to be an asshole, but I don't know if that's working.

Yep, this article sums it up.

But, I'd say she's pullin' about an 11. Personally, I'd tone it back to a 9. But, what do I know. I haven't served or lost a husband/wife.

I've heard the Iraq BS war likened to a gang controlling your neighborhood. You're not really for it, but the gang keeps you scared/under their control. So, the Americans come and chase the gang away. But, they can't finish the job because of "political reasons" and you're pissed off at the American's because of this. So, sure you hate the gang, but you're madder at the Americans/"cops" who can't control the gang, and, hey, maybe the gang wasn't "that" bad to begin with.

There's a sliver of truth in the "invade Iraq to show other countries who's boss" thinking, but don't confuse it with 9/11.

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Re: Can someone remind me why we're in Iraq?
Old 05-14-2007, 09:34 PM   #64
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Re: Can someone remind me why we're in Iraq?

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Originally Posted by Nords
Well, that's what you get when you let nuclear submariners run for elected office. (Hey, REW, I just realized that he was wun'a them there Democrats too, and maybe that's why they're extinct aboard submarines now!)
Although it pains me to say it, I do have to give you swabbies credit for learning from your mistakes.

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Re: Can someone remind me why we're in Iraq?
Old 05-14-2007, 09:37 PM   #65
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Re: Can someone remind me why we're in Iraq?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Nords
Well, that's what you get when you let nuclear submariners run for elected office. (Hey, REW, I just realized that he was wun'a them there Democrats too, and maybe that's why they're extinct aboard submarines now!) From the stories my FIL tells of his CBS days, Carter's micromanagement & short fuse make Rickover look like the Dalai Lama.
Yes, I remember that he used to control who got to use the White House tennis court. I think that Habitat for Humanity suits him.
Quote:
No, it's in "Masters of Chaos"-- one of the best of the very few factual Special Forces histories I've ever read.

The SF had moved into Iraqi towns and started rebuilding postwar grassroots govts from the local mullahs and the mid-grade retired Iraqi military-- not the generals but the majors & colonels. The SF were doing a decent job and getting fantastic intel when State stepped in and fired all the military from the posts that they'd just been appointed to (and were getting paid for). Kinda screwed up the "establishing credibility" and "building trust" portions of the post-war plan and led a lot of the ex-Iraqi military to turn their skills to other paid occupations...
Sounds like the Washington Post article. The State Department is turning to the CIA to try to discredit the DOD. See more here.
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Re: Can someone remind me why we're in Iraq?
Old 05-14-2007, 09:38 PM   #66
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Re: Can someone remind me why we're in Iraq?

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Yes, I remember that he used to control who got to use the White House tennis court. I think that Habitat for Humanity suits him. Sounds like the Washington Post article. The State Department is turning to the CIA to try to discredit the DOD. See more here.
For the record I am a Foreign Service Brat but I am not impressed with what State is doing these days. I would buy a carpet from the Stalinist factories if I thought it would make Iraq safer.
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