Canada has legal cannabis today

Reading Canadian weed owners/workers may be barred from entry to US.
 
gerntz said:
True. But when the accident rates in legal states increase significantly versus dropping in nearby control states in the same time frame, I'll hazard that correlation strongly indicates causation.
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So you agree and disagree. Ok then.
 
DeborahB said:
We have legal alcohol everywhere. It is known to be addictive, known to cause violence at times, and people who are drunk are scary drivers. Very accident-prone.

Marijuana isn’t addictive, isn’t a gateway drug, makes people mellow rather than violent. I’d rather see that than drunks. Dorito chips are plentiful.

Actually mj is enormously stronger than the stuff I smoked in college in the 60s. I don’t even get the munchies on the new stuff! But what is even better is using edibles instead of smoking it. It lasts a lot longer and you don’t cough. I’d rather have pot in my system than alcohol. Countries are finally figuring out they can tax it and increase revenue...
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+1

If you like edibles it's much, much cheaper to make your own! The commercial ones are terribly overpriced. When you consider an ounce($200) of lower quality cannibis(15%) is likely over 4000mg of THC(that's 400 recreation edible doses in CO, $800- $1000) and all it takes is a couple hours to make lovely cannaoil or tincture with ordinary kitchenware. Once you have that the skys the limit for cooking anything. Desserts, main dishes, poutine or my favorite, bulletproof coffee.
 
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jimbee said:
So you agree and disagree. Ok then.
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I do not. I agree with the premise in general - until more is known. But in this case, the data presented strongly shows that enough is known to draw the conclusion.
 
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gerntz said:
I do not. I agree with the premise in general - until more is known. But in this case, the data presented strongly shows that enough is known to draw the conclusion.
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No, the data doesn't. I read the report, the drivers that were pulled over were not tested for marijuana use. Unless I missed it.
 
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DeborahB said:
We have legal alcohol everywhere. It is known to be addictive, known to cause violence at times, and people who are drunk are scary drivers. Very accident-prone.

Marijuana isn’t addictive, isn’t a gateway drug, makes people mellow rather than violent. I’d rather see that than drunks. Dorito chips are plentiful.

Actually mj is enormously stronger than the stuff I smoked in college in the 60s. I don’t even get the munchies on the new stuff! But what is even better is using edibles instead of smoking it. It lasts a lot longer and you don’t cough. I’d rather have pot in my system than alcohol. Countries are finally figuring out they can tax it and increase revenue...
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I have zero problem with legalized marijuana nor with legalized alcohol. In fact, I think they're both over-regulated by our esteemed politicians. But I can't see the point of trying to justify one or the other based on the existence of the other.

What's your point? Are you saying marijuana should be legal everywhere since then some folks might give up alcohol and you feel that would be an improvement? Even if I assume your stated negatives concerning alcohol are completely accurate, I don't see the connection between that and legalizing marijuana. IOW, I'm fine with legalized marijuana (and wish they'd stop regulating it's cultivation, processing and sales) but not because alcohol is bad. Rather, because marijuana is good, especially if we can keep the politicians out of it.

I do know it's going to be easier and cheaper to grow my own marijuana (DW is a very skilled gardener) than to distil my own liquor. Is that where you're going?

What is it with this justifying legalizing marijuana based on the evils of alcohol? Marijuana can stand on it's own merits.
 
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DeborahB said:
Marijuana isn’t addictive, isn’t a gateway drug, makes people mellow rather than violent. I’d rather see that than drunks. Dorito chips are plentiful.
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I can't prove that MJ is addictive and the term "gateway drug " can be defined in several ways. What can be very easily demonstrated is the fact that most, if not all, people who are in treatment programs for the hard stuff, or are confined for crimes that may or may not be directly related to drugs, will report their first experiences with drugs were with MJ.
Legalizing MJ will without question produce many victims be it directly or indirectly. So, how much destruction will we accept to bankroll our government?
 
I'm glad legalization is happening on a geography by geography basis. This will make a nice "natural experiment" for Stephen Dubner (of Freakonomics fame) to study.


Not a perfectly aligned with the topic of this thread, but What’s More Dangerous: Marijuana or Alcohol? is an interesting bit.


Just to prepare you, if you haven't heard of these economists, they come to some surprising conclusions, such as "drunk walking is more dangerous than drunk driving".
 
Many people who are arrested for abuse also have assault charges. Assault is obviously the gateway to abuse and if we get rid of that then those people won’t abuse their spouses?

Maybe people who have drug dependence problems start with pot because it is the easiest to get? Maybe it has nothing to do with pot introducing them to drugs (alcohol and prescriptions do a fine job with that - in fact most people I know with drug problems started with a doctors prescription) but rather their personality or mental state is on a trajectory and pot just happens to be a stop on where they are headed. If prisons weren’t the biggest provider of mental health services in Texas we might have some data on this.

I’ll be honest here. Smoking pot is a big driver for my ER goal. Not worth the risk of loosing a job early in life to de-stress. State regulation doesn’t matter to me - federal is the only change that will greatly improve the quality of life for me while working.

I cope with alcohol even though I realize the risk. I drink maybe 6-10 beers a week; for my size isn’t too bad. My complaint is that when I drink, I feel bad the next day and don’t want to do anything active (walk, yoga, even jog) and drinking aggravates my tendinitis as opposed to promoting stretching and relaxation.

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With any legalization or change in law - there will be an increased incidence. Just watch tax incidents with the new tax code.. if they had money to audit, I’m sure we would see an increase.
 
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JPatrick said:
I can't prove that MJ is addictive and the term "gateway drug " can be defined in several ways. What can be very easily demonstrated is the fact that most, if not all, people who are in treatment programs for the hard stuff, or are confined for crimes that may or may not be directly related to drugs, will report their first experiences with drugs were with MJ.
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It's far more likely that their first experience with a drug was alcohol, which is a proven gateway drug.

https://americanaddictioncenters.org/the-real-gateway-drug/
 
HFWR said:
Not sure about Canada, but in Colorado, top shelf weed is sold for around $400/oz. per my very limited (n=1) experience, which probably isn’t that out-of-line for primo street weed.
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My goodness, how times and prices have change! Back in the day a 4 finger bag of primo Columbian could be had for a Jackson.
 
youbet said:
I have zero problem with legalized marijuana nor with legalized alcohol. In fact, I think they're both over-regulated by our esteemed politicians. But I can't see the point of trying to justify one or the other based on the existence of the other.

What's your point? Are you saying marijuana should be legal everywhere since then some folks might give up alcohol and you feel that would be an improvement? Even if I assume your stated negatives concerning alcohol are completely accurate, I don't see the connection between that and legalizing marijuana. IOW, I'm fine with legalized marijuana (and wish they'd stop regulating it's cultivation, processing and sales) but not because alcohol is bad. Rather, because marijuana is good, especially if we can keep the politicians out of it.

I do know it's going to be easier and cheaper to grow my own marijuana (DW is a very skilled gardener) than to distil my own liquor. Is that where you're going?

What is it with this justifying legalizing marijuana based on the evils of alcohol? Marijuana can stand on it's own merits.
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My point is that the reluctance to legalize pot isn’t rational. We (mostly) have no problem with having legalized alcohol and tobacco. So why all the concern about pot? It’s based on something, but not facts or logic. And I agree with whoever said the first drug people encountered is alcohol (or rx). The gateway drug theory isn’t provable.

So then it seems to come down to societal norms and lack of information. I know people who think alcohol is the devil’s drink and a frightening, sinful thing. I wish I didn’t. But you can’t explain that having a glass of wine or beer is okay, to someone with that mind set. Same thing with people who are sure pot is a gateway drug. Hey, we already have an opioid epidemic. Pot didn’t start it.

Anyhow, basically I’ve never been a big drug consumer or liquor consumer. I don’t have an addictive personality. But I’d like rational thought to take over regarding legalizing pot. There are so much larger world problems but this makes the news.
 
JPatrick said:
I can't prove that MJ is addictive and the term "gateway drug " can be defined in several ways. What can be very easily demonstrated is the fact that most, if not all, people who are in treatment programs for the hard stuff, or are confined for crimes that may or may not be directly related to drugs, will report their first experiences with drugs were with MJ.
Legalizing MJ will without question produce many victims be it directly or indirectly. So, how much destruction will we accept to bankroll our government?
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I call BS
Their first drug was probably caffeine or nicotine
 
DeborahB said:
Lol, I stand corrected! I went with alcohol or rx.
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Nah. Mother's milk has many benefits and it's what most addicts started on. [emoji111]
 
Music Lover said:
It's far more likely that their first experience with a drug was alcohol, which is a proven gateway drug.

https://americanaddictioncenters.org/the-real-gateway-drug/
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Of course. Alcohol has been cheap and readily available vs marijuana.

What a surprise! The drug that’s cheap and on hand is frequently the first one tried! It will be interesting to observe if and how things change as marijuana is legalized and regulations liberalized.
 
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DeborahB said:
My point is that the reluctance to legalize pot isn’t rational. We (mostly) have no problem with having legalized alcohol and tobacco. So why all the concern about pot? It’s based on something, but not facts or logic. And I agree with whoever said the first drug people encountered is alcohol (or rx). The gateway drug theory isn’t provable.

So then it seems to come down to societal norms and lack of information. I know people who think alcohol is the devil’s drink and a frightening, sinful thing. I wish I didn’t. But you can’t explain that having a glass of wine or beer is okay, to someone with that mind set. Same thing with people who are sure pot is a gateway drug. Hey, we already have an opioid epidemic. Pot didn’t start it.

Anyhow, basically I’ve never been a big drug consumer or liquor consumer. I don’t have an addictive personality. But I’d like rational thought to take over regarding legalizing pot. There are so much larger world problems but this makes the news.
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We have legal alcohol everywhere. It is known to be addictive, known to cause violence at times, and people who are drunk are scary drivers. Very accident-prone.
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Sorry, I just don't agree that pointing out the negatives of abusive levels of alcohol consumption is a good way to argue for the legalization and deregulation of marijuana. (Refer to your statement regarding the evils of alcohol in your earlier post I've quoted above.) In fact, I look at it the other way. If alcohol is so bad yet legal, why shouldn't we be working on a return to Prohibition rather than on legalizing another drug - marijuana?

Again, I'm all for the legalization and total deregulation of marijuana. But not because it probably won't be any worse for society than alcohol, nicotine, refined sugar or exposure to UV rays. That's not the point. I'm for the legalization and total deregulation of marijuana because we're big kids and can make our own decisions regarding what to eat, drink, inhale or shoot into our veins. Arguing for marijuana based on the negatives of other substances, such as alcohol or nicotine, just seems ridiculous to me.

Would your next step be to show a picture of a drunk driver next to the bodies of school children killed when she/he lost control of her/his car and ran them down and claim that that example of the evils of alcohol is a good reason to legalize and deregulate marijuana? Doesn't sound like a good idea to me.

We seem to agree on how we'd like marijuana handled but disagree on the usefulness of "alcohol is bad" arguments made to get there. And so be it........
 
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I think all substances should be decriminalized. The war on drugs has been a failure. Take all that money and put it into programs that educate and discourage use and also use the money to fund rehabilitation for those who get in too deep. It hasn't gone to zero, but we've seen a pretty significant reduction in cigarette smoking (at least until vaping came along). Point is, none of these things (weed, tobacco, alcohol) are particularly good for anyone to partake in and should be discouraged, but as was mentioned, humans have been partaking forever. It needs to be managed, not criminalized.

My biggest complaint about how marijuana is being handled is the taxing of it. I can't believe the politicians are behind it as a funding mechanism for things that we should be funding on their own merit. How does legalizing and taxing weed to pay for schools (for example) make the government any better than a dealer? Along with that, the taxes are so high that it's not even allowing the cost of weed to be less than the black market. Thus, not gaining one of the main benefits of legalization, taking the criminal element out of it. Genius. :facepalm:
 
Jerry1 said:
the taxes are so high that it's not even allowing the cost of weed to be less than the black market. Thus, not gaining one of the main benefits of legalization, taking the criminal element out of it. Genius. :facepalm:
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Exactly! What they've done in Colorado, for example, is increase demand for marijuana by making it legal and then cutting the gov't in on the action via regulations and taxation. I'd have rather seen them use deregulation and the free market system to have growers, processors, dealers and consumers determine prices in an open market environment and then collect income taxes from those managing a profit.

I've read that the current highly regulated system allows a significant amount of under the table and black market activity to be profitable and thrive.
 
candrew said:
My goodness, how times and prices have change! Back in the day a 4 finger bag of primo Columbian could be had for a Jackson.
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Apples and oranges. And you must have had a good buyers market where you shopped. The 70s weed "a friend told me about" was a wad of shade leaves with the occasion bud, and a whole lot of seeds. And on a good day, more than a Jackson. Nowadays, it's 100% bud, zero seeds, and 25% or more THC. There was sinsemilla around in the 70s, but not going for $20! Probably 3X that would be $290 in today's dollars. Maybe times aren't quite as different after all.
 
New Jersey is finishing the legalization bill right now. New York has started the ball rolling and should be done in not too long. Vermont, Massachusetts, and Maine are legal now. The Dominoes are falling.
 
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