Canada has legal cannabis today

[candrew]

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Originally Posted by HFWR Not sure about Canada, but in Colorado, top shelf weed is sold for around $400/oz. per my very limited (n=1) experience, which probably isn’t that out-of-line for primo street weed.

My goodness, how times and prices have change! Back in the day a 4 finger bag of primo Columbian could be had for a Jackson.

[DeborahB]

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Originally Posted by youbet I have zero problem with legalized marijuana nor with legalized alcohol. In fact, I think they're both over-regulated by our esteemed politicians. But I can't see the point of trying to justify one or the other based on the existence of the other. What's your point? Are you saying marijuana should be legal everywhere since then some folks might give up alcohol and you feel that would be an improvement? Even if I assume your stated negatives concerning alcohol are completely accurate, I don't see the connection between that and legalizing marijuana. IOW, I'm fine with legalized marijuana (and wish they'd stop regulating it's cultivation, processing and sales) but not because alcohol is bad. Rather, because marijuana is good, especially if we can keep the politicians out of it. I do know it's going to be easier and cheaper to grow my own marijuana (DW is a very skilled gardener) than to distil my own liquor. Is that where you're going? What is it with this justifying legalizing marijuana based on the evils of alcohol? Marijuana can stand on it's own merits.

My point is that the reluctance to legalize pot isn’t rational. We (mostly) have no problem with having legalized alcohol and tobacco. So why all the concern about pot? It’s based on something, but not facts or logic. And I agree with whoever said the first drug people encountered is alcohol (or rx). The gateway drug theory isn’t provable.

So then it seems to come down to societal norms and lack of information. I know people who think alcohol is the devil’s drink and a frightening, sinful thing. I wish I didn’t. But you can’t explain that having a glass of wine or beer is okay, to someone with that mind set. Same thing with people who are sure pot is a gateway drug. Hey, we already have an opioid epidemic. Pot didn’t start it.

Anyhow, basically I’ve never been a big drug consumer or liquor consumer. I don’t have an addictive personality. But I’d like rational thought to take over regarding legalizing pot. There are so much larger world problems but this makes the news.

[GravitySucks]

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Originally Posted by JPatrick I can't prove that MJ is addictive and the term "gateway drug " can be defined in several ways. What can be very easily demonstrated is the fact that most, if not all, people who are in treatment programs for the hard stuff, or are confined for crimes that may or may not be directly related to drugs, will report their first experiences with drugs were with MJ. Legalizing MJ will without question produce many victims be it directly or indirectly. So, how much destruction will we accept to bankroll our government?

I call BS
Their first drug was probably caffeine or nicotine

[DeborahB]

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Originally Posted by GravitySucks I call BS Their first drug was probably caffeine or nicotine

Lol, I stand corrected! I went with alcohol or rx.

[MRG]

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Originally Posted by DeborahB Lol, I stand corrected! I went with alcohol or rx.

Nah. Mother's milk has many benefits and it's what most addicts started on. [emoji111]

[aja8888]

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Originally Posted by MRG Nah. Mother's milk has many benefits and it's what most addicts started on. [emoji111]

Especially if Mom is hitting the Vodka before noon!

[DeborahB]

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Originally Posted by MRG Nah. Mother's milk has many benefits and it's what most addicts started on. [emoji111]

[HFWR]

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Originally Posted by JPatrick Criminalizing MJ will without question produce many victims be it directly or indirectly. So, how much destruction will we accept to bankroll our government?

Fify...

[youbet]

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Originally Posted by Music Lover It's far more likely that their first experience with a drug was alcohol, which is a proven gateway drug. https://americanaddictioncenters.org...-gateway-drug/

Of course. Alcohol has been cheap and readily available vs marijuana.

What a surprise! The drug that’s cheap and on hand is frequently the first one tried! It will be interesting to observe if and how things change as marijuana is legalized and regulations liberalized.

[youbet]

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Originally Posted by DeborahB My point is that the reluctance to legalize pot isn’t rational. We (mostly) have no problem with having legalized alcohol and tobacco. So why all the concern about pot? It’s based on something, but not facts or logic. And I agree with whoever said the first drug people encountered is alcohol (or rx). The gateway drug theory isn’t provable. So then it seems to come down to societal norms and lack of information. I know people who think alcohol is the devil’s drink and a frightening, sinful thing. I wish I didn’t. But you can’t explain that having a glass of wine or beer is okay, to someone with that mind set. Same thing with people who are sure pot is a gateway drug. Hey, we already have an opioid epidemic. Pot didn’t start it. Anyhow, basically I’ve never been a big drug consumer or liquor consumer. I don’t have an addictive personality. But I’d like rational thought to take over regarding legalizing pot. There are so much larger world problems but this makes the news.

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We have legal alcohol everywhere. It is known to be addictive, known to cause violence at times, and people who are drunk are scary drivers. Very accident-prone.

Sorry, I just don't agree that pointing out the negatives of abusive levels of alcohol consumption is a good way to argue for the legalization and deregulation of marijuana. (Refer to your statement regarding the evils of alcohol in your earlier post I've quoted above.) In fact, I look at it the other way. If alcohol is so bad yet legal, why shouldn't we be working on a return to Prohibition rather than on legalizing another drug - marijuana?

Again, I'm all for the legalization and total deregulation of marijuana. But not because it probably won't be any worse for society than alcohol, nicotine, refined sugar or exposure to UV rays. That's not the point. I'm for the legalization and total deregulation of marijuana because we're big kids and can make our own decisions regarding what to eat, drink, inhale or shoot into our veins. Arguing for marijuana based on the negatives of other substances, such as alcohol or nicotine, just seems ridiculous to me.

Would your next step be to show a picture of a drunk driver next to the bodies of school children killed when she/he lost control of her/his car and ran them down and claim that that example of the evils of alcohol is a good reason to legalize and deregulate marijuana? Doesn't sound like a good idea to me.

We seem to agree on how we'd like marijuana handled but disagree on the usefulness of "alcohol is bad" arguments made to get there. And so be it........

[Jerry1]

I think all substances should be decriminalized. The war on drugs has been a failure. Take all that money and put it into programs that educate and discourage use and also use the money to fund rehabilitation for those who get in too deep. It hasn't gone to zero, but we've seen a pretty significant reduction in cigarette smoking (at least until vaping came along). Point is, none of these things (weed, tobacco, alcohol) are particularly good for anyone to partake in and should be discouraged, but as was mentioned, humans have been partaking forever. It needs to be managed, not criminalized.

My biggest complaint about how marijuana is being handled is the taxing of it. I can't believe the politicians are behind it as a funding mechanism for things that we should be funding on their own merit. How does legalizing and taxing weed to pay for schools (for example) make the government any better than a dealer? Along with that, the taxes are so high that it's not even allowing the cost of weed to be less than the black market. Thus, not gaining one of the main benefits of legalization, taking the criminal element out of it. Genius.

[youbet]

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Originally Posted by Jerry1 the taxes are so high that it's not even allowing the cost of weed to be less than the black market. Thus, not gaining one of the main benefits of legalization, taking the criminal element out of it. Genius.

Exactly! What they've done in Colorado, for example, is increase demand for marijuana by making it legal and then cutting the gov't in on the action via regulations and taxation. I'd have rather seen them use deregulation and the free market system to have growers, processors, dealers and consumers determine prices in an open market environment and then collect income taxes from those managing a profit.

I've read that the current highly regulated system allows a significant amount of under the table and black market activity to be profitable and thrive.

[kcowan]

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Originally Posted by jimbee Correlation does not equal causation. Need more data.

Probably more out-of-state drivers going in for weed purchases.

[sengsational]

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Originally Posted by candrew My goodness, how times and prices have change! Back in the day a 4 finger bag of primo Columbian could be had for a Jackson.

Apples and oranges. And you must have had a good buyers market where you shopped. The 70s weed "a friend told me about" was a wad of shade leaves with the occasion bud, and a whole lot of seeds. And on a good day, more than a Jackson. Nowadays, it's 100% bud, zero seeds, and 25% or more THC. There was sinsemilla around in the 70s, but not going for $20! Probably 3X that would be $290 in today's dollars. Maybe times aren't quite as different after all.

[jim584672]

New Jersey is finishing the legalization bill right now. New York has started the ball rolling and should be done in not too long. Vermont, Massachusetts, and Maine are legal now. The Dominoes are falling.

[Kroeran]

Going through grocery checkout this aft (in Canada) I asked myself, what is that awful smell, cat urine? Turned out guy next to me reeked of grass.

[morriss003]

As marijuana becomes more acceptable, tax collections are likely to decrease. Marijuana is a weed, it is far easier to grow and maintain than it is to brew alcohol. Ten seeds will give you enough crop to last a year and more than 1,000 seeds. Any halfway decent home gardener will never have to buy it after harvesting one crop and letting it come to seed.

[HFWR]

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Originally Posted by morriss003 As marijuana becomes more acceptable, tax collections are likely to decrease. Marijuana is a weed, it is far easier to grow and maintain than it is to brew alcohol. Ten seeds will give you enough crop to last a year and more than 1,000 seeds. Any halfway decent home gardener will never have to buy it after harvesting one crop and letting it come to seed.

Yeah, sort of, but not really... The best homegrown would have to be females only (sinsemilla), so any seed stock would have to be segregated from the smoke stock. And you need good seed to start. And though they grow like “weeds”, much better yield is had with careful pruning. Or so I’ve heard. [emoji56]

Not to mention hybrid techniques...

[morriss003]

Is marijuana a gateway drug? Of course, it's a gateway drug, and government policy keeps it that way. Why is alcohol not a gateway drug? Because it is not categorized by policy makers as a drug, even though it can be terribly addictive. Young adults see the world in black and white, good or bad. They don't see the shades of gray those of us who are much older see. When they realize they are being lied to, the next question they have is, "What else are they lying about? If they lie about marijuana being so bad, then maybe they are lying about cocaine, LSD, and other drugs." When we separate marijuana from truly hard drugs, and honestly separate the hype from the problems with using marijuana, young people will be more likely to believe that using harder drugs is truly a bad idea.

[morriss003]

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Originally Posted by HFWR Yeah, sort of, but not really... The best homegrown would have to be females only (sinsemilla), so any seed stock would have to be segregated from the smoke stock. And you need good seed to start. And though they grow like “weeds”, much better yield is had with careful pruning. Or so I’ve heard. [emoji56] Not to mention hybrid techniques...

Not in my experience. First, letting a plant go to seed does not seriously diminish the quality of the high. The tiny leaves surrounding the buds are chocked full of THC. Second, it is easy to distinguish between male and female plants, so after a few plants are fertilized, the males can be pulled and harvested. The females that mature later will not be fertilized and will produce buds. The most important rule for the home marijuana gardener living in a non-legal state is, Never buy it, Never sell it. Share it with close friends, but not with those outside your long time circle.