Canine problems

[Sarah in SC]

Yep, Freebird, exactly the same story at my place. My dogs don't bark until the yippy one next door kicks in. Duh!

I liken the small cute dog thing to the same reason why Shetland ponies are so darned mean. They are small and cute, so no reason to teach them manners. The largest draft horse is (generally speaking) nicer than the smallest Shetland pony.

I like all sized dogs, but I do have an unexpected soft spot (though I've never owned one) for those medium-small poodles. What a nice sized and usually well mannered dog.

 

[Bestwifeever]

Well-mannered dogs, like children, no matter what their size, are made, not born. Small dogs are just as trainable as larger dogs. I don't think their being small and cute is a reason some small dogs are not taught manners, just as being large and handsome is not a reason some large dogs are taught doggie manners.

I admit I like smaller dogs (and bigger dogs!). Small dogs are portable/pickupable, so perhaps some owners automatically pick them up to stop some behaviors (jumping on people, barking at dogs/people/ironing boards (or is that just my late dogs?), etc.) rather than train them as a big dog would need to be trained. Of course picking them up just reinforces the unwanted behavior.

 

[REWahoo]

Well-mannered dogs, like children, no matter what their size, are made, not born.

Ummm....I forget, how many children did the Feever household manufacture?

 

[Sarah in SC]

Alright REW--don't you forget that those of us without children are without a doubt the absolutely MOST qualified people you can find on child [-]rearing[/-] manufacturing, because we are not biased by producing our own lil' darlins'.

 

[calmloki]

I have several issues with dogs. As a landlord, I note that pretty much all dogs go on duty if the Boss isn't home. That means they tend to bark if someone walks past the Boss's apartment. They also tend to get stressed out if the landlord, with Boss's permission, enters to do repairs if the Boss isn't home. This results in barking or biting and a pissed off landlord. Cats, OTOH, don't go on duty, don't bark, and couldn't care less if the landlord or a burglar wants to enter.

Had a couple pit bull looking dogs attack me in concert a year or so ago. This at apartments we own several blocks from the dog's home. Left me with a scar and a cop shot one of the animals. The other was put back on a chain in an unfenced yard where it could continue it's guard dog duties. Hopefully it won't hurt someone smaller badly. IMHO the owner of a dog over a certain size or with a bad enough breed history should be held to a higher standard - sort of like the difference in licensing for concealed weapons or automatic weapons vs. BB gun ownership.

Also dogs slobber and lick people * shudder *

Totally unbiased, but while solving dog issues I think it would be a swell idea for cat owners to get a tax break for their obvious good sense.

 

[freebird5825]

Yep, Freebird, exactly the same story at my place. My dogs don't bark until the yippy one next door kicks in. Duh!

I am very tempted to just let my dogs bark their heads off at the little dog until it drives the neighbors crazy. Their little dog is never out there by himself, always with the owner present. The owners can hear me command No Speak, less than 100 feet away. I'm not quiet about it.
I definitely have the advantage in numbers and volume. I also can get them to bark on command and stop on command. Mwah haha...

But am I capable of such deviousness?
And would these sweet little faces be willing accomplices?

 

[freebird5825]

Alright REW--don't you forget that those of us without children are without a doubt the absolutely MOST qualified people you can find on child [-]rearing[/-] manufacturing, because we are not biased by producing our own lil' darlins'.

There is actually a lot of truth in this.

 

[Caoineag]

One thing I've noticed from a small data set of small dog owners I've known personally, is they don't tend to teach the little dogs the basics of sit, stay, no speak, no bite (or no teeth, a firm command I gave my rocket dog who tended to like hands), etc.
Is it the "cute" factor?
I like all dogs also. What I like more is an owner who has control of their dog at all times, regardless of size or vocal habits.
Current example: Our new next door neighbor has a small dog. When I let my 2 dogs out in my fenced yard, they of course go straight for the fence boundary. I give them the "no speak" command as I let them out. They heed my command and go running down the steps. Good dogs.
However, the little dog starts barking, and my 2 join in, and it is maddening. I have to call my 2 back in short order to stop the noise.
I am re-training my 2 to not bark, but the neighbor seems to think it's cute to have their little dog bark at my much bigger ones. Argh!
Maybe I should try to teach the little guy not to bark, through the fence.

Uggg, barking. I adore dogs but can't stand barking. My pug that I have had from puppyhood only barks once and only when awoken by a sudden noise. My rescue dog will stop barking when I tell him to but curing him of the urge to bark seems near impossible. Getting there but talk about an uphill battle (have had him for 6 months now).

Unfortunately as an owner of small dogs, I think other people tend to have a terrible influence on small dogs (oh they are so cute, why are you telling them not to jump on me?). Whereas everyone wants to make sure that Great Dane doesn't jump on them. *sigh*

 

[freebird5825]

Uggg, barking. I adore dogs but can't stand barking. My pug that I have had from puppyhood only barks once and only when awoken by a sudden noise. My rescue dog will stop barking when I tell him to but curing him of the urge to bark seems near impossible. Getting there but talk about an uphill battle (have had him for 6 months now).

My dog training book suggested intentionally teaching them to Speak (woof at them to get it started, then treat or praise) and then No Speak (treat or praise), using both commands in same session to get them used to the phrases together. Like turning a switch on and off.
It w*rked for both. My bigger guy was adopted by me when he was 1 yr 3 mos old, a turn-in dog at the Humane Society. He learned from the smaller dog, who I had from puppyhood.

 

[Bestwifeever]

Ummm....I forget, how many children did the Feever household manufacture?

Just the two--no comment on whether they were/are well-mannered, but we at least made sure their shots were up to date

 

[Martha]

Little runt dogs. Not a very effective method of hiding your personal bias'.

I like all types of dogs, large and small. While I agree that the smaller ones tend to be more vocal/yappy, I'll take an attack by a dachsund or a pug any day over a golden or a pit bull. I don't agree at all that noise making and vicious behavior are linked. And I don't quite understand what a dog's viscosity has to do with anything.

My experience is that each dog has a personality, while each breed has a reputation. The only dog that has ever bitten me in real anger was a dalmation, although back in the old days when I worked for a vet I got bitten in fear by any number of breeds. I've occasionally had a chihuahua hanging off my pants leg, but for some reason it just didn't get the old adrenaline flowing. It was more a throttling down of my desire to laugh than a fight/flight instinct.

I grew up with big dogs and the first two dogs we had were big dogs. I admin that I called the little dogs "little rat dogs" or "ankle biters." Then I got a little rat dog ankle biter, a dachshund, and discovered that she is as dog like as the big guys.

 

[MichaelB]

A friend once commented - after substantial consumption of distilled beverages - that people should be required to raise pets before having the opportunity to raise children. They would then have to get rated and approved from a panel - like a Co-op board - comprised of pet owners.

I laughed then - but since have thought about it.

On another note, is it just my perception or do the FIREd / gonna be FIREs someday population of this forum have fewer children than the general US population? Are people without children more likely to FIRE? Or is this so self-evident that I'm the only one that didn't see this?

 

[growing_older]

On another note, is it just my perception or do the FIREd / gonna be FIREs someday population of this forum have fewer children than the general US population? Are people without children more likely to FIRE? Or is this so self-evident that I'm the only one that didn't see this?

I was not aware of this, but I can tell you my personal experience is that if I did not have kids I'd be FIRE now. But since I do have kids, I've still got a few more years before I can. Would not be surprised if others are in a similar situation.

 

[Bestwifeever]

My dog training book suggested intentionally teaching them to Speak (woof at them to get it started, then treat or praise) and then No Speak (treat or praise), using both commands in same session to get them used to the phrases together. Like turning a switch on and off.
It w*rked for both. My bigger guy was adopted by me when he was 1 yr 3 mos old, a turn-in dog at the Humane Society. He learned from the smaller dog, who I had from puppyhood.

It really is amazing how much helpful literature there is out there today about training dogs--I don't think we had anything in 1974 when we got our first dog. Any good title suggestions?

 

[freebird5825]

It really is amazing how much helpful literature there is out there today about training dogs--I don't think we had anything in 1974 when we got our first dog. Any good title suggestions?

My smaller dog is part Jack Russell and the vet warned me she would be a very interesting dog to train. I had never had a high energy terrier mix before, just lab and shepherd mixes. Her nickname is Rocket Dog, so that should indicate her energy level as a pup. She's 10 years old now and still zooms around the back yard at high speed.
Anyway, I got a book entitled The Complete Idiot's Guide to Jack Russel Terriers. It has excellent chapters about general dog pack behavior, training tips from puppy to adult, and is geared for high energy terrier types. It is an excellent reference even today when she "forgets" her manners. She is an extremely smart and sometimes devious little devil dog.

There may be other Complete Idiot Guides for other breeds.

Here she is as a puppy...imagine being firm with that cute little face.

 

[mews]

Such a cute halo!

It helps hide the

ta,
mew

 

[Sarah in SC]

I would suggest to anyone wanting to know more about training their own dog, that you invest in a few private sessions with a good dog trainer. This can be invaluable--I have friends with GSDs, and their first dog was a peach. The second (and third) were much more difficult, but after working with the trainer, they're waaaay better now.

Sometimes it helps to consult with people who know your breed. I know that in rescue, I get countless emails about "why does my dog do x" and I have to respond, because all border collies do x!

And yes, this crowd has more ISTJs and childfree folks (and left-handed folks) than the general population. Weird crowd. Glad that others are keeping up the kid manufacturing for the rest of us slackers like me!

 

[Urchina]

I am a relatively new dog owner with a relatively easy-going, well-mannered dog (she came that way from the Humane Society), but I can say I really enjoyed two books last year: "Merle's Door," (recommended by Sarah in SC), which helped me think through the human/canine relationship, and "How to be your dog's best friend," by the Monks of New Skete. The New Skete book has some training techniques which are not currently in favor (the alpha roll comes to mind), but what I did love about the book was the philosophical approach -- including your dog in your life so that training and bonding is a constant process and not something that happens in isolation from life.

I also developed a small crush on Brother Job, but that may not be everyone's experience in reading the book.

And ooh, dog pictures. Love these threads. Here's our girl:

 

[Rich_by_the_Bay]

And ooh, dog pictures. Love these threads. Here's our girl:

Gorgeous dog. Is she a Ridgeback?

 

[Sarah in SC]

Nice dog, Urchina, and I'm glad you brought up Merle's Door (yes, my all time favorite dog book). I will have to check out the Monks of New Skete book--and I do the alpha roll when required--there is no question of who the alpha is at my house! Interesting that their book was first published in 1976.

It certainly sounds a lot like the approach that Ted Kerasote used in Merle's Door, and a good way to raise dogs to be members of the family. Thanks for sharing!

 

[Caoineag]

My dog training book suggested intentionally teaching them to Speak (woof at them to get it started, then treat or praise) and then No Speak (treat or praise), using both commands in same session to get them used to the phrases together. Like turning a switch on and off.
It w*rked for both. My bigger guy was adopted by me when he was 1 yr 3 mos old, a turn-in dog at the Humane Society. He learned from the smaller dog, who I had from puppyhood.

No worries training I can do. Which is good because pugs are stubborn. The rescue dog occasionally forgets his manners out of doors but only when another dog starts it and the last big issue is dogs or horses on tv. No I don't understand why the horses get lumped with dogs but they do. Even on the TV front, last night there was a dog on the TV and he managed to keep from barking even though it obviously made him a little nervous. We are getting there. Its just slow progress when animals learn bad habits and you have to untrain those habits. Much better to do it right the first time.

 

[freebird5825]

And ooh, dog pictures. Love these threads. Here's our girl:

Beautiful dog.

The "alpha roll" - I had to use that on Rocket Dog just a few times. My book said to use it very sparingly, and only if verbal commands did not get results. I said the word "Alpha" very loud and with a hard tone while I did it.
She had a terrible puppy habit of nipping at my hands. More head movement than actual contact. After that, only the word said aloud sufficed to get her back in line.
The nipping action stopped when she got older. Now my hands just get licked.

 

[Sarah in SC]

My favorite alpha roll story in my house goes something like this:

I had a wonderful senior BC named Anna, and in the way of packs everywhere, my other dogs would sometimes just turn on her because she was weaker. I protected her carefully, but one time we were out in the front yard talking to an old friend and all the dogs were playing around us.

Suddenly, my "bad dog" Jane turned and jumped old Anna. There was way more noise than teeth, but I don't stand for this, ever. I stopped midsentence, sprinted to the dogs, dragged Jane off of her in a single swipe and swung her in a big arc that ended with her on her back and me over her like a vulture in for the kill. I grabbed her throat and shouted down her nostrils so that she would think this was the worst thing that had ever happened to her (the desired effect).

It only lasted about 5 seconds, after which I got up, dusted off my clothes, and strolled back into the conversation. Our buddy was agape, just standing there, and said to DH in a somewhat reverent tone, "damn I hope I never piss her off!".

Yeah, I'm the alpha. And I agree, in the 10 years Jane's been alive, she's had that done twice, and the first was for chasing a chicken.

 

[Rich_by_the_Bay]

My favorite alpha roll story in my house goes something like this:

I had a wonderful senior BC named Anna, and in the way of packs everywhere, my other dogs would sometimes just turn on her because she was weaker. I protected her carefully, but one time we were out in the front yard talking to an old friend and all the dogs were playing around us.

Suddenly, my "bad dog" Jane turned and jumped old Anna. There was way more noise than teeth, but I don't stand for this, ever. I stopped midsentence, sprinted to the dogs, dragged Jane off of her in a single swipe and swung her in a big arc that ended with her on her back and me over her like a vulture in for the kill. I grabbed her throat and shouted down her nostrils so that she would think this was the worst thing that had ever happened to her (the desired effect).

It only lasted about 5 seconds, after which I got up, dusted off my clothes, and strolled back into the conversation. Our buddy was agape, just standing there, and said to DH in a somewhat reverent tone, "damn I hope I never piss her off!".

Yeah, I'm the alpha. And I agree, in the 10 years Jane's been alive, she's had that done twice, and the first was for chasing a chicken.

How does that work on spouses?

 

[REWahoo]

How does that work on spouses?

If your DW chases chickens I doubt you'll ever break the 25% retired barrier...