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Old 08-18-2009, 05:18 PM   #61
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Little runt dogs. Not a very effective method of hiding your personal bias'.

I like all types of dogs, large and small. While I agree that the smaller ones tend to be more vocal/yappy, I'll take an attack by a dachsund or a pug any day over a golden or a pit bull. I don't agree at all that noise making and vicious behavior are linked. And I don't quite understand what a dog's viscosity has to do with anything.

My experience is that each dog has a personality, while each breed has a reputation. The only dog that has ever bitten me in real anger was a dalmation, although back in the old days when I worked for a vet I got bitten in fear by any number of breeds. I've occasionally had a chihuahua hanging off my pants leg, but for some reason it just didn't get the old adrenaline flowing. It was more a throttling down of my desire to laugh than a fight/flight instinct.
I grew up with big dogs and the first two dogs we had were big dogs. I admin that I called the little dogs "little rat dogs" or "ankle biters." Then I got a little rat dog ankle biter, a dachshund, and discovered that she is as dog like as the big guys.
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Old 08-18-2009, 05:24 PM   #62
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A friend once commented - after substantial consumption of distilled beverages - that people should be required to raise pets before having the opportunity to raise children. They would then have to get rated and approved from a panel - like a Co-op board - comprised of pet owners.

I laughed then - but since have thought about it.

On another note, is it just my perception or do the FIREd / gonna be FIREs someday population of this forum have fewer children than the general US population? Are people without children more likely to FIRE? Or is this so self-evident that I'm the only one that didn't see this?
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Old 08-18-2009, 05:32 PM   #63
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On another note, is it just my perception or do the FIREd / gonna be FIREs someday population of this forum have fewer children than the general US population? Are people without children more likely to FIRE? Or is this so self-evident that I'm the only one that didn't see this?
I was not aware of this, but I can tell you my personal experience is that if I did not have kids I'd be FIRE now. But since I do have kids, I've still got a few more years before I can. Would not be surprised if others are in a similar situation.
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Old 08-18-2009, 05:44 PM   #64
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My dog training book suggested intentionally teaching them to Speak (woof at them to get it started, then treat or praise) and then No Speak (treat or praise), using both commands in same session to get them used to the phrases together. Like turning a switch on and off.
It w*rked for both. My bigger guy was adopted by me when he was 1 yr 3 mos old, a turn-in dog at the Humane Society. He learned from the smaller dog, who I had from puppyhood.
It really is amazing how much helpful literature there is out there today about training dogs--I don't think we had anything in 1974 when we got our first dog. Any good title suggestions?
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Old 08-18-2009, 06:04 PM   #65
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It really is amazing how much helpful literature there is out there today about training dogs--I don't think we had anything in 1974 when we got our first dog. Any good title suggestions?
My smaller dog is part Jack Russell and the vet warned me she would be a very interesting dog to train. I had never had a high energy terrier mix before, just lab and shepherd mixes. Her nickname is Rocket Dog, so that should indicate her energy level as a pup. She's 10 years old now and still zooms around the back yard at high speed.
Anyway, I got a book entitled The Complete Idiot's Guide to Jack Russel Terriers. It has excellent chapters about general dog pack behavior, training tips from puppy to adult, and is geared for high energy terrier types. It is an excellent reference even today when she "forgets" her manners. She is an extremely smart and sometimes devious little devil dog.

There may be other Complete Idiot Guides for other breeds.

Here she is as a puppy...imagine being firm with that cute little face.
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Old 08-18-2009, 06:17 PM   #66
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Such a cute halo!

It helps hide the

ta,
mew
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Old 08-18-2009, 06:36 PM   #67
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I would suggest to anyone wanting to know more about training their own dog, that you invest in a few private sessions with a good dog trainer. This can be invaluable--I have friends with GSDs, and their first dog was a peach. The second (and third) were much more difficult, but after working with the trainer, they're waaaay better now.

Sometimes it helps to consult with people who know your breed. I know that in rescue, I get countless emails about "why does my dog do x" and I have to respond, because all border collies do x!

And yes, this crowd has more ISTJs and childfree folks (and left-handed folks) than the general population. Weird crowd. Glad that others are keeping up the kid manufacturing for the rest of us slackers like me!
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Old 08-19-2009, 01:49 AM   #68
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I am a relatively new dog owner with a relatively easy-going, well-mannered dog (she came that way from the Humane Society), but I can say I really enjoyed two books last year: "Merle's Door," (recommended by Sarah in SC), which helped me think through the human/canine relationship, and "How to be your dog's best friend," by the Monks of New Skete. The New Skete book has some training techniques which are not currently in favor (the alpha roll comes to mind), but what I did love about the book was the philosophical approach -- including your dog in your life so that training and bonding is a constant process and not something that happens in isolation from life.

I also developed a small crush on Brother Job, but that may not be everyone's experience in reading the book.

And ooh, dog pictures. Love these threads. Here's our girl:
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Old 08-19-2009, 07:36 AM   #69
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And ooh, dog pictures. Love these threads. Here's our girl:
Gorgeous dog. Is she a Ridgeback?
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Old 08-19-2009, 07:44 AM   #70
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Nice dog, Urchina, and I'm glad you brought up Merle's Door (yes, my all time favorite dog book). I will have to check out the Monks of New Skete book--and I do the alpha roll when required--there is no question of who the alpha is at my house! Interesting that their book was first published in 1976.

It certainly sounds a lot like the approach that Ted Kerasote used in Merle's Door, and a good way to raise dogs to be members of the family. Thanks for sharing!
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Old 08-19-2009, 08:34 AM   #71
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My dog training book suggested intentionally teaching them to Speak (woof at them to get it started, then treat or praise) and then No Speak (treat or praise), using both commands in same session to get them used to the phrases together. Like turning a switch on and off.
It w*rked for both. My bigger guy was adopted by me when he was 1 yr 3 mos old, a turn-in dog at the Humane Society. He learned from the smaller dog, who I had from puppyhood.
No worries training I can do. Which is good because pugs are stubborn. The rescue dog occasionally forgets his manners out of doors but only when another dog starts it and the last big issue is dogs or horses on tv. No I don't understand why the horses get lumped with dogs but they do. Even on the TV front, last night there was a dog on the TV and he managed to keep from barking even though it obviously made him a little nervous. We are getting there. Its just slow progress when animals learn bad habits and you have to untrain those habits. Much better to do it right the first time.
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Old 08-19-2009, 08:35 AM   #72
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And ooh, dog pictures. Love these threads. Here's our girl:
Beautiful dog.

The "alpha roll" - I had to use that on Rocket Dog just a few times. My book said to use it very sparingly, and only if verbal commands did not get results. I said the word "Alpha" very loud and with a hard tone while I did it.
She had a terrible puppy habit of nipping at my hands. More head movement than actual contact. After that, only the word said aloud sufficed to get her back in line.
The nipping action stopped when she got older. Now my hands just get licked.
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Old 08-19-2009, 11:29 AM   #73
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My favorite alpha roll story in my house goes something like this:

I had a wonderful senior BC named Anna, and in the way of packs everywhere, my other dogs would sometimes just turn on her because she was weaker. I protected her carefully, but one time we were out in the front yard talking to an old friend and all the dogs were playing around us.

Suddenly, my "bad dog" Jane turned and jumped old Anna. There was way more noise than teeth, but I don't stand for this, ever. I stopped midsentence, sprinted to the dogs, dragged Jane off of her in a single swipe and swung her in a big arc that ended with her on her back and me over her like a vulture in for the kill. I grabbed her throat and shouted down her nostrils so that she would think this was the worst thing that had ever happened to her (the desired effect).

It only lasted about 5 seconds, after which I got up, dusted off my clothes, and strolled back into the conversation. Our buddy was agape, just standing there, and said to DH in a somewhat reverent tone, "damn I hope I never piss her off!".

Yeah, I'm the alpha. And I agree, in the 10 years Jane's been alive, she's had that done twice, and the first was for chasing a chicken.
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Old 08-19-2009, 11:57 AM   #74
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My favorite alpha roll story in my house goes something like this:

I had a wonderful senior BC named Anna, and in the way of packs everywhere, my other dogs would sometimes just turn on her because she was weaker. I protected her carefully, but one time we were out in the front yard talking to an old friend and all the dogs were playing around us.

Suddenly, my "bad dog" Jane turned and jumped old Anna. There was way more noise than teeth, but I don't stand for this, ever. I stopped midsentence, sprinted to the dogs, dragged Jane off of her in a single swipe and swung her in a big arc that ended with her on her back and me over her like a vulture in for the kill. I grabbed her throat and shouted down her nostrils so that she would think this was the worst thing that had ever happened to her (the desired effect).

It only lasted about 5 seconds, after which I got up, dusted off my clothes, and strolled back into the conversation. Our buddy was agape, just standing there, and said to DH in a somewhat reverent tone, "damn I hope I never piss her off!".

Yeah, I'm the alpha. And I agree, in the 10 years Jane's been alive, she's had that done twice, and the first was for chasing a chicken.
How does that work on spouses?
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Old 08-19-2009, 12:12 PM   #75
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How does that work on spouses?
If your DW chases chickens I doubt you'll ever break the 25% retired barrier...
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Old 08-19-2009, 12:33 PM   #76
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On another note, is it just my perception or do the FIREd / gonna be FIREs someday population of this forum have fewer children than the general US population? Are people without children more likely to FIRE? Or is this so self-evident that I'm the only one that didn't see this?
I believe this has been discussed a number of times. I don't remember any polls, but from reading the board over time it appears that participants here tend to have way fewer children than the general population, or a group wih similar incomes.

Many parents here have testified that they have no trouble limiting their kids' expenses, but I think maybe they haven't been through the teen braces, clothes,etc. period yet.

Overall, it seems that it must be easier to control one's own expenses, next to negotiate some sort of control with spouse, and last to limit kids' expenses.

But people here are not typical in any way that I can see, so this may not apply to us(them).

Ha
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Old 08-19-2009, 12:38 PM   #77
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Thanks for the admiration!. We're biased -- we think she's the prettiest dog in the world, but I have to say that I envy Rich Sophie's beautiful coat (and, from what Sarah and you have said in the past, her immaculate manners). So sorry she's no longer with you, Rich. Lilly just passed her TDI (therapy dog) exam and so has pretty good manners, but she's only 2 and so we're still working with an adolescent. She's sweet as honey, huge-hearted, willing to please, loves to work, and steady. No bad habits. What a loss for the people who turned her in!

And no, she's not a Ridgeback, though that is nearly always everyone's first guess and she does look like one, excepting the ridge. According to her prior owners, she's a purebred lab, though of the Field and Trial variety, so she's tall, leggy, lean and has a lot of endurance and energy. Her coloring is unusual for labs, but it's called "Fox Red." We call it "butterscotch." She's also really big for a lab (sizewise she is much more in line with the Ridgebacks) -- she's a very trim 88 lbs. Wow, I just chatted about my dog for two paragraphs! Can you tell I'm besotted?

As far as the alpha roll, I've done it too, but it was instinctive. I was out hiking with my college BF and his (rescued and very large) malamute, who had some dominance issues. About a 1/2 mile into the hike he realized he'd forgotten to lock the car, so ran back to lock it while I hung out with the dog and waited. I'm sitting on a stump in the forest with the dog on a leash when I hear a rumbling next to me. I look at her and she's up, snarling, growling AT ME. First time ever she had shown aggression towards anyone, so far as we know. Man, was I pissed. I jumped up, caught her by the throat, slammed her down on the ground, and snarled and yelled "NO!" as loud as I could. Talk about instant limp dog! Then I sat back down and kept her in a down-stay until BF got back. She and I never had an issue again. . But I think I was just lucky -- if she'd scared me rather than pissed me off, I'm not sure things would have gone well for me in that encounter.

However, such an approach isn't something I'd try with a strange dog, off-leash, coming at me in a park. I think I'll be looking into the pepper spray, too.

As for spouses... well... why don't you try it, Rich, and get back to us on that one?
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Old 08-19-2009, 12:47 PM   #78
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If your DW chases chickens I doubt you'll ever break the 25% retired barrier...
In this case, I was thinking of myself as the spouse just in case Sarah's method gets out...
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Old 08-19-2009, 06:47 PM   #79
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I kinda knew I had that coming...

Urchina I am somewhat familiar with the field-bred Labs and I've seen some wonderful examples of them around here. You have a real prize there, especially to be so mannerly and biddable at such a young age. Labs take a long time to grow up.
Kinda like men....

I would be glad to offer training to your spouses on the alpha roll, gentleman. But I'm betting they could do it without lessons if you irritated them enough.
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Old 08-19-2009, 06:53 PM   #80
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I would be glad to offer training to your spouses on the alpha roll, gentleman. But I'm betting they could do it without lessons if you irritated them enough.
Heck, my DW is just happy I'm housebroken...(mostly).
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