Join Early Retirement Today
Reply
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread Display Modes
Old 03-28-2012, 02:28 PM   #81
Give me a museum and I'll fill it. (Picasso)
Give me a forum ...
brewer12345's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2003
Posts: 16,391
Quote:
Originally Posted by Chuckanut View Post
It's hard to argue that wearing shoes shows premeditation.
It would only be premeditated if you were carrying the shoe in question concealed. If glippy gets his way, it will be premeditated if the shoe is bigger than the victim's shoe.
__________________

__________________
"There are three kinds of men. The one that learns by reading. The few who learn by observation. The rest have to pee on the electric fence for themselves."



- Will Rogers
brewer12345 is offline   Reply With Quote
Join the #1 Early Retirement and Financial Independence Forum Today - It's Totally Free!

Are you planning to be financially independent as early as possible so you can live life on your own terms? Discuss successful investing strategies, asset allocation models, tax strategies and other related topics in our online forum community. Our members range from young folks just starting their journey to financial independence, military retirees and even multimillionaires. No matter where you fit in you'll find that Early-Retirement.org is a great community to join. Best of all it's totally FREE!

You are currently viewing our boards as a guest so you have limited access to our community. Please take the time to register and you will gain a lot of great new features including; the ability to participate in discussions, network with our members, see fewer ads, upload photographs, create a retirement blog, send private messages and so much, much more!

Old 03-28-2012, 02:38 PM   #82
Give me a museum and I'll fill it. (Picasso)
Give me a forum ...
Midpack's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2008
Location: Chicagoland
Posts: 11,971
Quote:
Originally Posted by brewer12345 View Post
It would only be premeditated if you were carrying the shoe in question concealed. If glippy gets his way, it will be premeditated if the shoe is bigger than the victim's shoe.
I see glippy is a "part-time attorney." The pieces fall into place...he could become full time.

Quote:
Occupation
Real Estate Investor / Part-Time Attorney
__________________

__________________
No one agrees with other people's opinions; they merely agree with their own opinions -- expressed by somebody else. Sydney Tremayne
Retired Jun 2011 at age 57

Target AA: 60% equity funds / 35% bond funds / 5% cash
Target WR: Approx 2.5% Approx 20% SI (secure income, SS only)
Midpack is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 03-28-2012, 03:04 PM   #83
Give me a museum and I'll fill it. (Picasso)
Give me a forum ...
 
Join Date: Nov 2007
Posts: 7,526
Quote:
Originally Posted by glippy View Post
Right now larger vehicle drivers increase their own safety by directly increasing the risk of injury to others. Yet they face zero increased liability.

If you take a risk, you should have to deal with the liability, not be able to just shift it to everyone else with no consequences. That's what is creating the problem of the heavy-vehicle arms race.
Looks like I am agreeing with the least popular guy in the room at the moment, but I think he has illustrated an important issue that is not adequately addressed.

In law school I took a very interesting course on insurance law. I learned insurers are smart - they have to be to continue making money. They are good at identifying risks and pricing premiums adequately to cover those risks (and then some). I also learned that in pricing auto policies, the liability coverage is not tied to the kind of vehicle you drive. In other words my 2800 lb honda civic costs me the same in liability coverage as a 6600 lb Hummer.

My insurance law professor said this was one of the few big actuarial inequalities in auto insurance. That is, driving a much heavier vehicle that would inflict more damage on any vehicle you hit has no bearing on your liability premium (note I said liability and not comprehensive or collision). So my honda civic would be likely to cause much less damage in an accident than a much larger vehicle, although I still pay the same liability premiums as the driver of a larger vehicles.

I don't know why this is the case, as a savvy insurance company could offer discounts to drivers of smaller cars (assuming we are not more accident prone than drivers of larger cars). Maybe the insurance regulators don't allow vehicle type to factor in to the rate they can charge?

I have not studied this in depth and this is 10 year old knowledge at this point, but to test out my statements I obtained an online quote from GEICO by putting in my name and address and priced out a policy with my old honda civic, a hummer H2 and a BMW M5 (a variety of econobox, huge metal beast, and zippy sports car). All the exact same premium - $133 for 6 months liability only.

Assuming this discrepancy still exists, heavy vehicle owners in general receive an insurance subsidy from drivers of lighter vehicles.

Glippy's suggestion to have some system to increase the statutory accountability based on vehicle size or weight seems overly complicated. If there was a big discrepancy in damages resulting from vehicle size or weight, auto insurance companies should be allowed to price it in their premiums. That, in my opinion, would be the best way to match the increased risk of injury with choice of vehicle. Those driving heavier vehicles would be safer (generally) but would pay the price via higher insurance premiums due to higher average damages in the event of a collision.
__________________
Retired in 2013 at age 33. Keeping busy reading, blogging, relaxing, gaming, and enjoying the outdoors with my wife and 3 kids (5, 11, and 12).
FUEGO is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-28-2012, 03:07 PM   #84
Give me a museum and I'll fill it. (Picasso)
Give me a forum ...
brewer12345's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2003
Posts: 16,391
Auto insurance pricing is complex and I would not take a law professor's word as gospel on it. I also would not draw any conclusions from a brief poke at GEICO. Insurance law & regs also vary substantially by state, so what might hold true in one state might not in another.
__________________
"There are three kinds of men. The one that learns by reading. The few who learn by observation. The rest have to pee on the electric fence for themselves."



- Will Rogers
brewer12345 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-28-2012, 03:18 PM   #85
Give me a museum and I'll fill it. (Picasso)
Give me a forum ...
TromboneAl's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2006
Posts: 11,197
Classic thread drift.
__________________
Al
TromboneAl is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-28-2012, 03:27 PM   #86
Give me a museum and I'll fill it. (Picasso)
Give me a forum ...
 
Join Date: Nov 2007
Posts: 7,526
Quote:
Originally Posted by brewer12345 View Post
Auto insurance pricing is complex and I would not take a law professor's word as gospel on it. I also would not draw any conclusions from a brief poke at GEICO. Insurance law & regs also vary substantially by state, so what might hold true in one state might not in another.
True - they definitely vary by state.

I would be surprised if GEICO had this wrong - they had the comprehensive and collision premiums roughly right (ie hundreds of $$ per period for the much more expensive cars and a couple dozen $$ for my 12 year old beater).

And I have an account there from a while ago so they knew who I was and what cars we have from pulling DMV records. So a little more than a quick poke at GEICO.

I also checked my state's insurance regulator and they did not vary the liability premium based on vehicle type (they have a fancy smancy online calculator). Although I would trust a market based quote from GEICO over my state's insurance regulator that may have errors in their calculator, screwed database and/or stale data or pricing rules in their calculator.
__________________
Retired in 2013 at age 33. Keeping busy reading, blogging, relaxing, gaming, and enjoying the outdoors with my wife and 3 kids (5, 11, and 12).
FUEGO is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-28-2012, 05:16 PM   #87
Give me a museum and I'll fill it. (Picasso)
Give me a forum ...
haha's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2003
Location: Hooverville
Posts: 22,384
Quote:
Originally Posted by TromboneAl View Post
Classic thread drift.
We understand that the car decision has been made.
__________________
"As a general rule, the more dangerous or inappropriate a conversation, the more interesting it is."-Scott Adams
haha is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 03-28-2012, 06:47 PM   #88
Give me a museum and I'll fill it. (Picasso)
Give me a forum ...
 
Join Date: Jul 2003
Location: Kansas City
Posts: 7,408
Great thread. I stand enlightened.

My silly 12 yr old 26 mpg, 300M, attacked a highway divider in this years snowstorm in the PacNW thus getting totaled.

This thread has convinced me I need an old really big V8. twin pipe, 4WD, gas sucking pickup with big wide tires.

I will be safe from pesky little cars and can't afford to travel very far so my odds of picking on them(the little cars) will be much lower.

heh heh heh - next need to learn to love planes and airports. And public transportation.

Or get a bicycle.
__________________
unclemick is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-29-2012, 01:03 PM   #89
Give me a museum and I'll fill it. (Picasso)
Give me a forum ...
TromboneAl's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2006
Posts: 11,197
Quote:
Originally Posted by Pajaro View Post
I would try to sell it to a private party (with complete disclosure about the damage) before selling it to the scrap yard. Maybe someone in your area needs a parts car and values your daughter's car more than $800. If you don't get any takers, fall back on the scrap yard.
Thanks, on her behalf, Pajaro. Here's an email I got from her last night:
Hey! Got your message - sorry, I've had Craigslist people calling me all night.

Looks like I'm selling the car for $1300!!! Shocking, not sure why someone would want to pay that, but hey...we'll see, you know how craigslist is. Thanks for the suggestion of selling it on Craigslist!
__________________
TromboneAl is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-29-2012, 01:30 PM   #90
Thinks s/he gets paid by the post
seraphim's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2012
Posts: 1,492
Replace it. But I'm curious what 'frame part' is 'somewhat buckled'...? The frame's buckled? Wouldn't mess with it. Can't think of anything attached to the frame other than the engine which might cost $3000 to replace. $800 might be a bit optimistic.
__________________
"Growing old is no excuse for growing up."
seraphim is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-29-2012, 01:34 PM   #91
Give me a museum and I'll fill it. (Picasso)
Give me a forum ...
youbet's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2005
Location: Chicago
Posts: 9,965
Quote:
Originally Posted by haha View Post
For this reason, my uncle who owned many used car lots over his long life, always told us kids-don't buy a used car except from a trusted family member.

I have seen otherwise honest people go to consideragle lengths to disguise flaws, even dangerous flaws, in cars they wished to sell.

Ha
Amen to that Brother Ha! I've seen used car lot dealers handle snakes in order to clinch a deal to move out a lemon. And private sellers too, for that matter.
__________________
"I wasn't born blue blood. I was born blue-collar." John Wort Hannam
youbet is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-30-2012, 09:55 AM   #92
Give me a museum and I'll fill it. (Picasso)
Give me a forum ...
TromboneAl's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2006
Posts: 11,197
I spoke with her on the phone last night. She sold her Echo for $1,400, thanks to Pajaro.

She was skeptical, but put it on craigslist, with full disclosure, for $900. She received several calls within a minute of the posting, so she went back and upped the price to $1300. To guys came simultaneously to look at it, and bid the price up to $1,400. The winner paid cash and had it towed away.

She was surprised that anyone paid that much. I suggested that there are people who would be willing to drive a potentially dangerous car if the price is low enough. She suggested that they might plan to get it drivable, then sell it without disclosure.

She has her sights set on three used Toyota Matrixes. For example, a 2008 with 70K miles for $10,000. I offered no advice on what car to buy -- she's good at research. She said she'll take any car she considers both to a mechanic and a body shop.

__________________
TromboneAl is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-30-2012, 10:21 AM   #93
Give me a museum and I'll fill it. (Picasso)
Give me a forum ...
pb4uski's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2010
Location: Vermont & Sarasota, FL
Posts: 16,418
Good for her!!!

We have a guy locally who has a shop and buys cars with significant issues (mostly accidents, totaled by the insurance company), fixes them and makes them road-worthy and then sells them. He has been doing it for years and has a pretty good reputation as far as I know. Perhaps someone like that is the buyer.
__________________
pb4uski is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-30-2012, 10:44 AM   #94
Give me a museum and I'll fill it. (Picasso)
Give me a forum ...
harley's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2008
Location: Following the nice weather
Posts: 6,426
Quote:
Originally Posted by TromboneAl View Post
She was surprised that anyone paid that much. I suggested that there are people who would be willing to drive a potentially dangerous car if the price is low enough. She suggested that they might plan to get it drivable, then sell it without disclosure.
I suspect that there are quite a few people who would not consider the frame issue as making the car potentially dangerous to drive. That whole issue is based on what a mechanic said, and who knows if he's correct or not. Anyway, cars aren't dangerous, drivers are.

Congrats to Jenny on a good deal.
__________________
"Good judgment comes from experience. Experience comes from bad judgement." - Will Rogers, or maybe Sam Clemens
DW and I - FIREd at 50 (7/06), living off assets
harley is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 03-30-2012, 03:09 PM   #95
Give me a museum and I'll fill it. (Picasso)
Give me a forum ...
 
Join Date: Jul 2003
Location: Kansas City
Posts: 7,408
I suspect anything that gets 'good' mpg gets a premium now given gas price news. Exceptions might be a high frequency of repair reputation.

Sounds like she did ok.

heh heh heh - I liked the Mr Mustache link in this thread. In my heart pickup but in the end probably do like your daughter - get a used gas sipping hatchback when time to replace my 24 mpg Chevy Equinox comes.
Good thread.
__________________
unclemick is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-31-2012, 03:02 PM   #96
Give me a museum and I'll fill it. (Picasso)
Give me a forum ...
TromboneAl's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2006
Posts: 11,197
She bought this 2008 Toyota Matrix for $10,300 from a private party. It has only 50,000 miles on it.

JennysMatrix.jpg

A lot of nice options (like ABS, power locks).
__________________
TromboneAl is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-31-2012, 03:05 PM   #97
Give me a museum and I'll fill it. (Picasso) Give me a forum ...
REWahoo's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2002
Location: Texas Hill Country
Posts: 42,093
Nice car Al, but I sure hope it isn't parked in front of Jenny's apartment in the background...
__________________
Numbers is hard

When I hit 70, it hit back

Retired in 2005 at age 58, no pension
REWahoo is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-31-2012, 03:42 PM   #98
Give me a museum and I'll fill it. (Picasso)
Give me a forum ...
Midpack's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2008
Location: Chicagoland
Posts: 11,971
Nice car, she could easily get another 150K miles out of it with only normal repairs.
__________________
No one agrees with other people's opinions; they merely agree with their own opinions -- expressed by somebody else. Sydney Tremayne
Retired Jun 2011 at age 57

Target AA: 60% equity funds / 35% bond funds / 5% cash
Target WR: Approx 2.5% Approx 20% SI (secure income, SS only)
Midpack is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 03-31-2012, 08:04 PM   #99
Moderator Emeritus
Nords's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2002
Location: Oahu
Posts: 26,616
Quote:
Originally Posted by REWahoo View Post
Nice car Al, but I sure hope it isn't parked in front of Jenny's apartment in the background...
That's the Craigslist photo the seller uses to make the car look better.

Assuming anyone is willing to come to the neighborhood to look at it...
__________________
*
*

The book written on E-R.org, "The Military Guide to Financial Independence and Retirement", on sale now! For more info see "About Me" in my profile.
I don't spend much time here anymore, so please send me a PM. Thanks.
Nords is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-31-2012, 08:54 PM   #100
Administrator
W2R's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2007
Location: New Orleans
Posts: 38,852
Quote:
Originally Posted by TromboneAl View Post
She bought this 2008 Toyota Matrix for $10,300 from a private party. It has only 50,000 miles on it.

Attachment 13931

A lot of nice options (like ABS, power locks).
Good choice, Al! It sounds like something that will last for a long time, and provide her with good gas mileage, too.
__________________

__________________
Already we are boldly launched upon the deep; but soon we shall be lost in its unshored, harbourless immensities.

- - H. Melville, 1851
W2R is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply


Currently Active Users Viewing This Thread: 1 (0 members and 1 guests)
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are Off
Pingbacks are Off
Refbacks are Off


Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
I need help with roofing decision Grainiac Other topics 42 04-08-2012 11:59 AM
A/C Car Recharge easysurfer Other topics 17 04-02-2012 11:46 AM
How Can I Avoid $$$ Car Maintenance? ERD50 Other topics 67 03-10-2012 11:04 AM
Should we downsize to one car kfindley79 Other topics 26 02-24-2012 10:53 AM
How to fix whatever ails you haha Health and Early Retirement 18 02-20-2012 11:06 PM

 

 
All times are GMT -6. The time now is 06:28 PM.
 
Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.8 Beta 1
Copyright ©2000 - 2017, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.