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Old 07-04-2007, 04:13 PM   #21
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I'm in with you....from today, I will not be buying anything from China....only locally grown food and my cats will only eat Innova which is made in the USA.
Hopefully my oil paints and brushes are not made in China....otherwise, I'm screwed!
Why did we (our government) let it get so bad?
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Old 07-04-2007, 04:51 PM   #22
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To go along with the tainted honey (the Chinese have also been found to add sugar to it), they now have been caught manufacturing a vegetable snack called Vegetable Booty that has a banned antibiotic in it!
Have they no scruples? The Chinese sure learned their capitalist lessons way too well. Anything for the quickest, cheapest way to make a buck!

I guess we as consumers really do have to boycott since the US (or other Western) governments don't seem to be looking out for us...
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Old 07-04-2007, 08:00 PM   #23
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A friend took a long trip through China and India. He has developed a lack of respect for the 'Bejing' Chinese. In the west, he says that there are moslem Chinese who are honourable. Interesting, no?

In the engineering/construction business, for so many years, people had learned not to buy valves made in China. They were commonly made of inferior materials (but marked as good materials). Later, anything in stainless steel. Now, the Chinese won't even buy their own valves and pipes! I sincerely hope that they are getting screwed.

Here in Calgary, it is hard to find crawfish that are not from China. I have found a source I believe is not.

Cheers,

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Old 07-05-2007, 12:56 PM   #24
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FYI....I have spent most of the day at work (slow..no one is here) trying to find products made in the US....and there is not much at all out there!
This makes me pretty scared!!
So....any good laptops out there that are US made?
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Old 07-05-2007, 01:11 PM   #25
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So....any good laptops out there that are US made?
Assembled in the US?

Try Dell:
Winston Salem, NC Manufacturing Facility

I'm sure any computers coming out of there are 95%+ foreign sourced.
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Old 07-05-2007, 01:12 PM   #26
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Thats where you run into the financial barrier. While some laptops have been periodically assembled here in the US, usually from modules built overseas, there are only a few "made in america from american parts using american labor" laptops. A barebones celeron one that sells for $300-400 on sale when made overseas often runs $700-1000 from one of the "made in the usa" shops.

You've REALLY gotta want to put your money where your mouth is...
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Old 07-05-2007, 01:18 PM   #27
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Well, I just remember what my sister the late food scientist said:

Anything from China or Chile, don't buy it to begin with, or chuck it now...............
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Old 07-05-2007, 01:20 PM   #28
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A friend took a long trip through China and India. He has developed a lack of respect for the 'Bejing' Chinese. In the west, he says that there are moslem Chinese who are honourable. Interesting, no?

In the engineering/construction business, for so many years, people had learned not to buy valves made in China. They were commonly made of inferior materials (but marked as good materials). Later, anything in stainless steel. Now, the Chinese won't even buy their own valves and pipes! I sincerely hope that they are getting screwed.

Here in Calgary, it is hard to find crawfish that are not from China. I have found a source I believe is not.

Cheers,

Gypsy
I have a client that works at a manufacturing facility that makes HUGE excavating buckets for the mines in China. Apparently the Chinese govt doesn't trust their OWN factories, because they are the exclusive supplier to China for them.........
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Old 07-05-2007, 01:35 PM   #29
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Hey, I am willing to put my money where my mouth is....I will research Celeron...
Or use the one at the Library interspersed with using my work one.
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Old 07-06-2007, 03:05 PM   #30
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Hey, I am willing to put my money where my mouth is....I will research Celeron...
Or use the one at the Library interspersed with using my work one.
Celeron is Intel's brand name for a CPU, not a manufacturer.

There are almost no consumer electronics that are made outside of SE Asia. A very few are assembled in the US (albeit chips, boards, etc. are generally sourced from Asia).
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Old 07-06-2007, 03:19 PM   #31
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The Chinese sure learned their capitalist lessons way too well.
No, a real capitalist wants repeat business. I think they have only learned *part* of what being a capitalist is. The rest they will learn the hard way - and it might take some boycotts to drive the lesson home.

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Old 07-06-2007, 03:35 PM   #32
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toco bell or eating CA grown broccoli or spinach?
It's been years since I stopped at a TB. They now have a broccoli and spinach tacos? ...But they still use trans-fats, right?
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Old 07-07-2007, 02:22 PM   #33
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The difference between the Japan and China anology is that Japan wanted to be become better and there was a culture of honor.


uh guess rape and pillage are honorable activities...
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Old 07-14-2007, 03:21 PM   #34
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And now the cardboard soaked in caustic industrial chemicals and flavored with pork seasoning and sold in buns:

ABC News: China Cuts Corners With Cardboard Food

It's bad enough when big corporations are doing this, but to think that little local snack shops are just as corrupt and uncaring even when they are seeing their customer/victim face to face, sometimes on a daily absis is mind-boggling!
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Old 07-14-2007, 08:59 PM   #35
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I have become more aware of imported products and I am definitely trying to stay away from China imports --- but it is so hard. I can't believe how many products I have purchased in the past from China and other countries. In fact, I just bought a package of "Ocean Spray's Sweet Clementines" and they were a product of South Africa.

So, I guess we just have to keep boycotting Chinese products until their standards are improved.

P.S. China recently executed a guy responsible for some of their inadequate products.
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Old 07-15-2007, 07:22 AM   #36
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The problem is, these things are sneaking in everywhere. In Italy, there have been protests upon discovering that, not only are "counterfeit" Chinese tomatoes being sold as Italian ones.. even Italian packers have been adding Chinese tomato concentrate to Italian-packed tomatoes.

Italy has been more sensitive than the US (being more proud of, and dependent on, local products). But that doesn't mean they have the means to change things.

Beppe Grillo (erstwhile comic turned professional ranter) has a good rant here (in English):
http://www.beppegrillo.it/eng/2005/12/

Quote:
Tomatoes and Oxen from your own Village

For more than 20 years in Europe and in the rest of the world, the transport of freight is growing at a rate that is almost double the growth of the Gross Domestic Product (GDP). Thousand of millions of tons of goods go backwards and forwards on roads, rail, in the skies and on the sea. And each year this increases and they go further.

Progress can’t be stopped, they say. As if progress were like a locomotive in descent and without brakes. The only thing that has not already been affected by progress is the idea of progress. I’m fed up of imagining progress as Marinetti and the futurists imagined it at the beginning of the last century: roaring, clattering machines, always bigger, always more powerful.

If we want to continue believing in progress, we need to progress the idea of progress.

A progressive progress is one that whispers, that doesn’t roar. It’s a progress on tiptoes, not a progress with jangling chains. “From the atom to the bit” was the promise of the technology gurus of twenty years ago. I understood that instead of moving ever more atoms, we would be moving ever more bits, (that is information).

I understood wrong.

What’s actually happening is very different. There is an explosion in the exchange of material goods and the use of thousands of millions of tons of infrastructure and of combustible material to transport more stuff longer distances and for more insane reasons. It’s very clear to me that the communication routes have been the arteries of civilisation and that free and fair trading has brought advantages to all.

But the situation has changed. For more than 2,000 years goods have been transported with various forms of indirect solar energy, that of beasts of burden, of wind, of water. Today the means of transport no longer use solar power but energy from petroleum, hundreds of millions of tons a year, that become thousands of millions of tons of CO2 in the atmosphere and that produce economic damage in the form of the greenhouse effect, typhoons, hurricanes, and droughts.

Economic historians estimate that for centuries the rates of economic growth have been in the region of a few points per thousand each year. Now the rates of economic growth are a few points per hundred each year and the monetary exchanges of the economy double every 10-30 years. As well as that, material commerce increases even faster than the monetary economy. It thus seems clear to me that the current rhythm of growth in transport is a monster that has never been seen before and that can never exist in the future. We are living through a few decades of madness.

If the prices of a bottle of Australian wine transported as far as Piedmont or of San Pellegrino water transported as far as Sidney, burning at each journey a bottle of petroleum, were also to cover the costs of the environmental damage generated, that wine and that water would cost double, triple or quadruple.

Why do sausages sold in Nuremberg have to be made with pigs from Bavaria transported for slaughter at Mola near to Naples? And the pyjamas made and sold in Switzerland have to go as far as Portugal to have the buttons sewn on? And the shrimps from the North Sea sold in Germany have to go to Morocco to be washed? And in the supermarkets of Stuttgart Irish mineral water has to arrive at prices lower than German prices? And our local “speck” from altoatesino has to be made from Belgian pigs? And the dried meat of the Grigioni with Brazilian beef? And corn flakes in Geneva with corn from Argentina? And the pizza in Naples with Chinese tomatos? And the Genovese pesto with basil from Vietnam?

Every year Great Britain imports 200,000 tons of foreign pork every year. But it also exports 200,000 tons of British pork. And if we all ate our own pork?

In a planet that is ever more populated, where thousands of millions of people want a better standard of material well-being, we can only satisfy everyone if we return to producing and consuming locally as far as possible leaving long distance commerce for the rest.

A tomato produced in China, should be costing 50 Euro in Italy, 10 cents for the product and 49.90 for the environmental damage.

Then those that want the exotic tomato can still buy it.

In this mad back and forth across the planet of planes, ships, ferries, lorries and trains still more TAV, what gains is commerce not production.

On the contrary, the farmer and the craftsperson, are expelled from the production system by the hypermarkets, points of loading and unloading of goods on the planet.

Gatekeepers of the multinationals who tell us what to eat by means of information and publicity.

And then if the meat, the honey, the milk produced locally is more wholesome and costs less, who cares?
Whether you buy in to his greenhouse gas theories or not.. his main point is still valid.

Italians drink probably hundreds of litres of mineral water per person each year. But in Bergamo I doubt they drink mostly the local San Pellegrino; they've gotta drink water from the Alps or Fiuggi or someplace. And then in Fiuggi and the Alps they 'import' San Pellegrino!

It's practically impossible to drive on the main A1 highway anymore. Much of it is only two lanes, and large tractor-trailers outnumber cars. I am not exaggerating. At 9:00 at night we can easily be the only regular car visible along some stretches; coming and going there are four lanes of trucks. It's gotten much worse since the border openings of the EU since now there are tons of trucks, trucks, trucks from Poland, Romania, Belgium, Czech Republic, etc. They all say "logistics".

The "logic" of these "logistics" is unclear, since prices have only gone up and up and up for pretty much every consumer item you can think of. And availability/variety of products hasn't really changed unless you look at the crappiest-of-the-crappiest (Chinese) stuff in the street markets (pretty much the equivalent of the "Dollar" Stores). Who knows what's in those shampoo bottles?
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Old 07-15-2007, 07:35 AM   #37
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I have not been buying any chinese products for the last week and a half and it takes some time to look...but I feel great about it.
I agree with Beppe.....if we just took some time and promoted the local produce......we would benefit our health, local economy, and the earth's natural resources.
I know that all of us on this board worry about the health insurance.....but what if we would have to pay out of our ass just for the basic necessities like water, clean air, and edible food? That is a scary thought!
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Old 07-15-2007, 10:04 AM   #38
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Beppe Grillo (erstwhile comic turned professional ranter) has a good rant here (in English):
Beppe Grillo's Blog: December 2005 Archives
ladelfina, I think he makes some interesting points. I tend to agree, however...

I'm not so sure you can call much of this 'insane'. If I go to the market, and a wine (or any product) from Australia (or anywhere) is cheaper and better than a more local product, am I 'crazy' to purchase that product? Maybe the competition from these products also helps to drive the local products to improve?

If most of society decides that it is 'wrong' to be transporting comparable products long distances, they need to put their money where their mouth is. As he talks about, raise the prices of fossil fuel so it is no longer economical to ship things long distances. Then people will be more encouraged to buy local. But think of all the consequences of that.

It is a bit like asking people to drive small high MPG vehicles just because it is the 'right' thing to do. Some will, many won't. Raise the price of fuel, and people will start to decide to buy smaller cars, take fewer trips, take a job closer to home, telecommute more often, etc, etc, etc.

Maybe a little simple knowledge would help people make informed choices though. What if stores were required to allow customers to scan the barcode of a product, and the terminal would display the distance from that product's source, and show some rough gallons/pound equivalent of fuel required to ship that product (based on whether it would normally be shipped by air, truck, rail, etc). Or maybe just some postings around the store of typical distance/fuel/pound ratings, just to make people think about it?

When they are priced the same, and no information on fuel usage, there is little motivation for a consumer to change their buying pattern.

-ERD50
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Old 07-15-2007, 04:10 PM   #39
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ladelfina, I think he makes some interesting points. I tend to agree, however...

I'm not so sure you can call much of this 'insane'. If I go to the market, and a wine (or any product) from Australia (or anywhere) is cheaper and better than a more local product, am I 'crazy' to purchase that product? Maybe the competition from these products also helps to drive the local products to improve?

If most of society decides that it is 'wrong' to be transporting comparable products long distances, they need to put their money where their mouth is. As he talks about, raise the prices of fossil fuel so it is no longer economical to ship things long distances. Then people will be more encouraged to buy local. But think of all the consequences of that.

It is a bit like asking people to drive small high MPG vehicles just because it is the 'right' thing to do. Some will, many won't. Raise the price of fuel, and people will start to decide to buy smaller cars, take fewer trips, take a job closer to home, telecommute more often, etc, etc, etc.

Maybe a little simple knowledge would help people make informed choices though. What if stores were required to allow customers to scan the barcode of a product, and the terminal would display the distance from that product's source, and show some rough gallons/pound equivalent of fuel required to ship that product (based on whether it would normally be shipped by air, truck, rail, etc). Or maybe just some postings around the store of typical distance/fuel/pound ratings, just to make people think about it?

When they are priced the same, and no information on fuel usage, there is little motivation for a consumer to change their buying pattern.

-ERD50
Transportation is already heavily taxed, which prevents people and businesses from reaching their full potential.

I agree theoretically on taxing 'externalities' such as pollution, but have big questions with the scientific value of any academic area that is politically influenced. Also, if agreed gov't needs to intervene, the optimal solution is to create more market, namely a market in which the externality (e.g. CO2) trades.

In practice, I fear that, despite all the good intentions that people like the columnist and you may have, some pigs will become more equal than others over time.
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Old 07-15-2007, 04:42 PM   #40
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It gets better....fake chinese water...
Report: Fake drinking water hits Beijing - Yahoo! News
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