Cars: Of Multiple Options, Lemons and Common Sense

I'd probably do something stupid, like show her consumer reports.

I am not married. I suspect there is a reason for that.

I have no advice, but you can vent here, we won't tell...

If anybody wants to bet, I think is he leasing :D
 
I also wonder why a lease.

A lease is great is someone else's is paying (employer), otherwise buying is almost always a better deal in the long run.
 
Of course, one can score a lot of points by getting DW a brand new red Mini Cooper :D
 
According to this recent article on Yahoo the Mini Cooper is very often a lemon. Yahoo!

I stand corrected. Thanks for the link. :)

My frame of reference for the Mini Cooper not much of a lemon was probably because at that time I had an old Plymonth Neon where other cars are all reliable in comparison :LOL:. Yet, I still miss my Neon.
 
.....
However, safety-wise the car is solid. It's actually a lot safer than it looks like and has numerous air-bags throughout the entire cabin.....

Within it's mini size class it is decent with "acceptable"-to-"good" IIHS single vehicle crash testing results. But, I agree with MichaelB that small cars are generally the least safe in a crash. To quote IHSS:
"Frontal crash test results can't be used to compare vehicle performance across weight classes." (emphasis added)
"Given equivalent frontal ratings, the heavier of two vehicles usually offers better protection in real-world crashes. In 2009, IIHS demonstrated this principle with a series of tests in which small cars were crashed into larger cars, all of which had good frontal ratings in the moderate overlap test."

Frontal crash tests

FWIW- I choose not to drive anything smaller than a late-model mid-size sedan, especially since most current 4cyl gas models offer very decent performance & 35+mpg (hwy).
 
Thank you all for the feedback. We have not yet made a decision, but, yes, more than likely I won't win this one. However, some compromises have been made in order to achieve a nice balance between DW's "wants" and what we really "need".

We just sold the Mini to Carmax yesterday, and now that we have been driving it on a daily basis, my Acura is actually acting up as well (it is, after all, 15 years old), so we do need a car. Both Carmax and Mini offered the same amount for the Acura, a pathetic $500. But at this point, what options do I have for 1999 car that needs new brakes, new tires, new engine timing belt, new paint and tinting (one can not see through the rear window now, since the tint has peeled off), plus makes terrible noises from the engine bay (the local Pep Boys wouldn't even touch it to perform an oil change!) etc, etc? At best, I could get $1200 if I sell it privately, after I spend $2K+ on repairs. Pointless. Might as well let the dealership deal with the paperwork and license/registration transfer, go in with one car, and leave with another one.

The Mini Cooper lease would cost $299/month. Zero down. Final, bottom line, everything-included price of $10,764 for 36 months. That includes oil changes, maintenance, brakes, fluids, etc, etc. EVERYTHING, except new tires. I checked the fine print. But if we drive as usual, we would be at 20K miles or less after 3 years, so I doubt the tires will be an issue. Dealer disposition fee is another $350. So, overall, it'd be maybe $306 per month when one considers the disposition fee. This after heavy negotiation, which brought the price down about $2K from what they were originally asking. And (this is important to us) no worries for 3 years. Zero out-of-pocket cost other than gas and insurance. That'd be quite refreshing and a welcome change.

Here's what I proposed to my wife, and how I am looking at it:

We need to keep the budget (which like most of you, I stick to and obsess over every month) the same, so if we consider the insurance discount we are getting by switching to a single-car (about $680 a year), the gas savings (I estimate about $1K now that my wife takes the train to work), plus other misc. expenses that total $154/month that my wife agreed to eliminate in order to get the Mini Cooper, we would be looking basically at the same monthly expenses. And this doesn't take into consideration any tax advantages I might get from the lease, since I am self employed (regarding this last part, I am not sure if we should put the lease under my name, her name, or both, but I am calling our CPA next).

I should also mention that we are entirely debt-free. House is paid-for. And we mostly live on one salary and save the other one (after taxes). Net worth of about $200K, NOT counting the house. With the house I estimate it would be $500K. We are both in our mid 30's.

I am well-aware of the bottom line consequences of a lease, and the fact that once the 3 years are up we are left without a car again, and we never really owned anything. However, I am looking at the big picture here:

- about $11K for 3 years of worry-free transportation
- We got $9K for the previous Mini Cooper, which worst-case scenario covers most of the new Mini Cooper lease price, but which I am already putting aside for the NEXT car, the one we will NOT lease after the 3 years are up. We can save another $10K in the next three years as well, without affecting our early retirement savings, 403 savings, etc, and buy a $20K, slightly used, still under warranty Japanese car then (it'd be my turn to pick and choose!) that we would keep for a much longer time.
- Monthly expenses remain about the same once we factor in the discounts and changes mentioned above.
- A happy wife (priceless).

I'll keep you posted, but your comments are more than welcome!
 
Last edited:
Karloff,

Oh, I only got about $200 from Carmax for my old 1996 Neon. But the car was leaking oil and the transmisson shot. I did at least had the pleasure of cranking up the A/C all summer which I had just repaired :)
 
Options:

1) Lease a Mini Cooper. I been negotiating the terms all week, and I got them down to where I think they would make sense for us. Bottom line: $300 down (that's three HUNDRED), $299/month for 36 months. Total out-of-pocket with the kitchen sink included: $10,674 worry-free dollars. Maintenance included.

2) Keep the $9K from the Mini we are selling and use $2K towards fixing up the Acura. Should run fine for another 2 years. HUGE CON: unhappy wife. I think you know what that means. I also do not think saving $11K is worth an unhappy wife.

3) Get the $9K, keep the Acura, wait a few months, maybe one year, save some more money (I am not touching our savings nor investments for a car, nor will I sacrifice money from the amount that goes towards savings monthly), and then buy a USED car, probably Japanese, for about $15K, and drive that for another 10 years. Sell the Acura. SEMI-HUGE CON: Wife still unhappy. No Mini Cooper.

What would you do?

It seems to me that this is a relationship issue more than a financial issue.

I personally would go 100% for option (3), but then I am single.

In your case, I would imagine that your decision to lease is probably one of those compromises that marriage entails, and is probably the best path forward.
 
Well, things just got more interesting.

I didn't know this, and we never even contemplated actually purchasing a Mini Cooper, but it turns out that all the local dealers are offering 0% 48-month financing for qualified buyers. I qualify. That puts a different spin on the situation.

Furthermore, the 3/year full service, full maintenance package, $0 out-of-pocket expenses also applies to the purchase offer, and not only to leases, and on top of that the car has a 4-year warranty.

The bottom-line purchase price for the same car we were contemplating leasing is $24,300. I'm sure I can bring that down to at least $22,500. So, let's assume:

- They gave us $9K for our previous Mini. $500 for my Acura.
- We put $5K down, keep the $4K difference and save/invest that.
- We add $500 from my Acura. Total down: $5500.
- We finance $17K at 0% for 4 years, monthly payment comes to $354, a few bucks extra compared to if we were leasing.
- We may or may not pay the car in full way before 4 years, but at 0%, why rush?
- We enjoy a worry-free car for 4 years.
- In 4 years, once the car is no longer under warranty, we sell it. I estimate we could get around $14K for it, specially since I know we won't put too many miles on it.
- So, $22,500 - $15,000 = $8500, divided by 48 months, the total monthly expense to drive a brand new, worry-free car, with ALL services and maintenance included, comes to about $177 per month, or about HALF of what it would cost to lease.

I'm tempted.

It's hard to resist the 0%, my wife would be thrilled, I wouldn't worry about repairs and maintenance, and we actually would own the damn thing.

What do you think?
 
Last edited:
I think the purchase at 0% sounds like a better deal than the lease.
 
I'm late on this one....but I was going to sarcastically suggest getting her hypnotized..... into believing a Honda Fit is really a Mini.....
 
Well, things just got more interesting.

I didn't know this, and we never even contemplated actually purchasing a Mini Cooper, but it turns out that all the local dealers are offering 0% 48-month financing for qualified buyers. I qualify. That puts a different spin on the situation.

Furthermore, the 3/year full service, full maintenance package, $0 out-of-pocket expenses also applies to the purchase offer, and not only to leases, and on top of that the car has a 4-year warranty.

....
What do you think?


I think I would see what other new car offers are out there for compromise cars first, since you didn't seem to want another Mini Cooper, and see what your DW thinks of those (she might find a Brand new version of another car equally appealing). But if she still wants the Mini and you are not against it, I vote that she and you should just buy it.
 
I'm a car lover. Sometimes you just have that bug for a certain vehicle and you've got to have it. My friend wanted a Mercedes SLK roadster for a daily driver for quite a while and finally bought one last Fall. It's a slug. Can't get out of it's own way but she loves it. Buy don't lease.
My daily driver is a Ford F150 Platinum. I get 12 miles to the gallon and love that darn thing!
 
In your case, I would imagine that your decision to lease is probably one of those compromises that marriage entails, and is probably the best path forward.

Exactly. That's the car she wants loud and clear. He's found a way to structure the purchase that he can at least live with. Much as I too dislike the Mini Cooper that's what I would do.
 
I would appreciate everybody's input on something that's been keeping me awake for the last 3 days. I will keep it nice and short:

Car situation.

Me: the frugal type. Frequent these pages and swear by the advise and wisdom offered here. Could not care less about cars at this point in my life. Marketing doesn't work on me. I just want something CHEAP, reliable, CHEAP, good on gas, and, yes, CHEAP. NEVER had a car payment in my life. Always bought used and paid cash. Never regretted the decision.

My wife: not as frugal, but not the average shopaholic, either. Irrational when it comes to car decisions. Not mechanically inclined at all (neither am I, for that reason). Her decision making, thought-process when it comes to choosing transportation goes something like this "I just want a red Mini Cooper".

Folks, I've tried. No point in arguing nor telling me why the Mini Cooper is such a bad idea. Trust me, I tried.

In fact, we both KNOW.

We currently own two cars. Again, both fully paid for and purchased used. Cash only.

• 1999 Acura TL. Purchased used almost 10 years ago. Has been a great, reliable, affordable and overall great purchase that I do not regret. If I do the math (purchase price, repairs and expenses throughout the year), the monthly total comes down to less than $130 (not counting whatever amount I could get if I sell it, also not counting insurance). Still runs.

• 2009 Mini Cooper (hardtop): This is why I said "I know" that the Mini is not a good idea. In short: we got a lemon. Purchased from first owner, and it's been problematic ever since. Last couple of repair bills totaled almost $1K, and that's just for this month. GREAT mileage, but other than that I do not like the car. Crap built-quality, ergonomically a nightmare, and a terrible, bumpy ride.

Here's where things get more interesting:

I work from home, and my wife now takes the train to work (distance from home to train station: 5 miles) so we have been toying with the idea of switching to a single-car. I take her to the train station every day. I keep the car during the day, but I would probably never need it. We are both on board there. I can't wait to make it happen. We would save at least $1100/year in insurance cost alone, not to mention fees, gas, potential repairs, etc. We are in South FL, so insurance here is VERY expensive. My Acura mostly sits outside nowadays. I barely drive it. In fact, I do keep a record of the mileage, and I barely drove 4K miles in the last 2 years!

We are selling the Mini Cooper to Carmax for $9K. We are loosing money on it, but it's the best offer we could get and at this point we just want to get rid of it.

We would then need a new car. Problem being: my wife REALLY wants a Mini Cooper. But I am not touching an used one ever again. However, they have a lease deal where the total amount ends up coming to $11K for 3 years, with maintenance included. I discussed, researched and obsessed over the fine print. Basically, we spend $11K and we are worry-free for 3 years and my wife gets her dream car. I stress: WORRY-FREE. Even oil changes are included. Keep in mind: an oil change for a Mini varies from $85 to $130 locally, and that is NOT at the dealer. Trust me, I know.

BUT I never leased in my life, and, of course, once the 3 years are up we lost $11K (more than what I paid for my Acura, which is still running and mine after almost 10 years!) and we are left with nothing. One benefit of the lease: I could write off part of it as a business expense, since I am self-employed.

However, my Acura TL is old. 150K miles, but, as anybody who has a Honda will tell you, these cars can go to 200K miles easily. It runs fine, though, and I have been using it more and more lately just to test the waters, so to speak, but it needs work (regular maintenance: new tires, new brakes, tune-up, maybe a new timing belt, etc.) I estimate $2K in repairs/maintenance, and we should have a car for another 2 years.

Options:

1) Lease a Mini Cooper. I been negotiating the terms all week, and I got them down to where I think they would make sense for us. Bottom line: $300 down (that's three HUNDRED), $299/month for 36 months. Total out-of-pocket with the kitchen sink included: $10,674 worry-free dollars. Maintenance included.

2) Keep the $9K from the Mini we are selling and use $2K towards fixing up the Acura. Should run fine for another 2 years. HUGE CON: unhappy wife. I think you know what that means. I also do not think saving $11K is worth an unhappy wife.

3) Get the $9K, keep the Acura, wait a few months, maybe one year, save some more money (I am not touching our savings nor investments for a car, nor will I sacrifice money from the amount that goes towards savings monthly), and then buy a USED car, probably Japanese, for about $15K, and drive that for another 10 years. Sell the Acura. SEMI-HUGE CON: Wife still unhappy. No Mini Cooper.

What would you do?

This wasn't that short after all! :)

Agree with other posts. Mini Cooper has very poor repair record. Gosh,
you own one, so you know. Safety another issue.
You have a old Acura, your own experience, reliable, low maintenance.

My little "2 cents", Don't Lease. Just throwing $ away.

Go and look at other "reliable" makes of "sporty" cars, and HAVE YOUR
WIFE DRIVE THEM....I know there are many cute/sporty cars out there.

:greetings10:
 
Give yor wife a choice.

Buy/lease the Mini Cooper

or

Don't buy/lease it. With the money you save fix the Accura, and take her on a vacation of a lifetime.

Win win


There is nothing worse than being stuck with a crap me car...and there are lots of them out there!
 
Back
Top Bottom