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Old 08-23-2013, 03:09 AM   #41
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Like I said, the lawyer has to look important and show your buyers that they are getting their monies worth.
Possibly, though my bet is the buyer wants a delay and the lawyer is delivering him one.
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Old 08-26-2013, 07:42 PM   #42
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UPDATE:

So, I've been out of town but the buyer's attorney threw one back at the title company - there was an exception for an old electric company easement and that easement wasn't shown on the survey. The attorney wanted them to remove the exception since it wasn't shown on the survey. The title examiner said no, can't do that, because the surveyor didn't show that the easement DID NOT apply.

It goes round and round between the surveyor, the attorney, the title examiner. It was ridiculous. This morning, I point out to the attorney that the 80 year old utility easement contains the same ROW that anybody else consents to when they apply for membership with the electric co-op. And you can't get electric service without becoming a member.

And since his client has effectively already agreed to those terms by virtue of applying for membership with that electric co-op in preparation for having the electric service in his name, I would consider that objection resolved.

Five minutes later, the attorney replies that he, ummm, has consulted with his client and they have decided to waive the objection.

Now closing is scheduled for tomorrow afternoon. Latest request - buyer wants to bring cash to closing for the non-real estate items that were part of the sales contract ($5K for some furniture and the golf cart) and take mention of those off the HUD.

This guy is full of twists and turns.
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Old 08-26-2013, 09:08 PM   #43
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....Now closing is scheduled for tomorrow afternoon. Latest request - buyer wants to bring cash to closing for the non-real estate items that were part of the sales contract ($5K for some furniture and the golf cart) and take mention of those off the HUD.

This guy is full of twists and turns.
Congratulations! Actually that last part seems sensible though I am surprised it has been mentioned until now.
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Old 08-27-2013, 12:09 AM   #44
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Latest request - buyer wants to bring cash to closing for the non-real estate items that were part of the sales contract ($5K for some furniture and the golf cart) and take mention of those off the HUD.
Be careful with that, especially since some states, and the Feds (especially if it's a federally insured loan) are keeping a closer eye on mortgage fraud after the real estate meltdown.

I remember from my real estate days years ago, there was something about "side deals" that weren't on the HUD, that were possibly illegal, or constituted mortgage fraud. But I can't remember the details of it. I think there was also a statement both parties had to sign that stated the contract to buy/sell was the only contract or sale being entered into, and that there wasn't any other side deal.

I do remember my team would refuse to be part of anything that wasn't in the contract. Occasionally, something would come up where a buyer wanted the seller to reimburse them for repairs, or something like that, and wanted to keep it out of the contract and the HUD, and my team would refuse to be part of it. Not worth us risking our licenses and our reputation. If it was a material part of the deal, it went in the contract and the HUD, because we had to put our signatures on that, too.

If you have your own agent, I'd ask them about that to see what they think.

Good luck with the sale, and I do hope it finally closes for you!
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Old 08-27-2013, 10:55 AM   #45
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UPDATE:

Now closing is scheduled for tomorrow afternoon. Latest request - buyer wants to bring cash to closing for the non-real estate items that were part of the sales contract ($5K for some furniture and the golf cart) and take mention of those off the HUD.

This guy is full of twists and turns.
Time to get one of those counterfeit pens?
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Old 08-27-2013, 02:38 PM   #46
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From the OP's post it sounded to me like the contract covered the real property and some personal property and that in closing they wanted to bifurcate the contract between the two and have the personal property settled in cash and the real property covered by the HUD/mortgage. Assuming that the personal property value is ~$5k it would seem appropriate to me.

I seem to recall that in closing for my house they made us carve out a 8'x10' dollhouse that was on the property and some other personalty that was included the contract from the main house and the mortgage would only cover 80% of the (total contract price less the value of the dollhouse/personalty). So in in effect at closing we had to pay cash for the dollhouse/personalty and 20% of the real estate.
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Old 08-27-2013, 07:05 PM   #47
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They decided last minute to leave the $5K on the HUD.

Closed at 3:30 this afternoon - title company had to update the HUD several times and didn't get the funds wired until after 4pm so it will be tomorrow before I see them but......

It's done. Whew................

Next time I'm told I've got a cash buyer on the line, my first question will certainly be "Yeah, but do they have attorneys too?".
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Old 08-27-2013, 07:16 PM   #48
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Congrats on the sale.
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Next time I'm told I've got a cash buyer on the line, my first question will certainly be "Yeah, but do they have attorneys too?".
It's not about the cash buyer. You could have been in the same situation (or even more delayed) if the buyer needed financing. Ask for more earnest money and keep it if they don't perform.
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Old 08-27-2013, 10:17 PM   #49
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Congratulations! It is always a nice feeling to have one's place sell.
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Old 08-27-2013, 11:30 PM   #50
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Congrats om the sale.

It's not about the cash buyer. You could have been in the same situation (or even more delayed) if the buyer needed financing. Ask for more earnest money and keep it if they don't perform.
+1 on the "ask for a higher deposit", but I disagree on the financing: if the buyer had a rate locked in for x days (especially during an environment where the rates have risen a huge percentage-wise amount in a short time), I highly doubt the financing company would patiently wait on the sidelines while the lawyer plays the "let's see how many weeks I can draw this out" game and keep the funds at a pre-approved rate for weeks on end.

Actually, if a financing company HAD been involved, wouldn't they have also wanted to review the proposed changes to the title/closing documents/etc., since technically, the financing company would be the one owning title to the land?
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Old 08-27-2013, 11:48 PM   #51
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+1 on the "ask for a higher deposit", but I disagree on the financing: if the buyer had a rate locked in for x days (especially during an environment where the rates have risen a huge percentage-wise amount in a short time), I highly doubt the financing company would patiently wait on the sidelines while the lawyer plays the "let's see how many weeks I can draw this out" game and keep the funds at a pre-approved rate for weeks on end.
Right, but that same "deadline" can be accomplished with a properly worded acceptance. And if it was an offer from a non-cash buyer who still needed to obtain financing, then the potential delays are increased.

It's a minor point, but I just don't think the cash/non-cash thing makes a big difference if the person buying the property gets cold feet, hires a lawyer who wants to "make a statement" etc.
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Old 08-29-2013, 04:35 PM   #52
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Currently helping Dad sell his place. We took the cash buyer offer over a mortgage (about the same price). Now there's a "slight delay." But to be fair, it is still an aggressive schedule.

I'll give more details later after this settles one way or the other... But I'm starting to agree that OP's title of this thread is spot on.
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Old 08-30-2013, 12:52 AM   #53
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Well, to give the other side I have been a cash buyer and have sold to a cash buyer with no issues at all.
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Old 08-30-2013, 09:08 AM   #54
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+1 In fact when we sold out house the main reason we accepted their relatively low offer compared to our expectations is that they were a cash buyer and had no contingencies other than a home inspection. I figured that their offer gave me the same cash in hand as listing it with a realtor, selling at the market, paying the realtor commission and carrying the property during the likely selling and closing period and this party wanted to close asap. We had one serious issue with the home inspection and they brought in a structural engineer to evaluate it. Once he had made them comfortable with the issue, they wanted to accelerate the closing by over a week. We agreed subject to them allowing us to store some stuff in the garage for a few days since we weren't all moved out at that point.
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Old 08-31-2013, 10:36 AM   #55
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Grats on the closing!
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Old 08-31-2013, 03:08 PM   #56
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Well, to give the other side I have been a cash buyer and have sold to a cash buyer with no issues at all.
The only other thing I might add to this thread is as someone who has put in cash offers I feel I have to particularly cautious regarding the property. Everyone wants that deal to go thru including the agents.

I have had a tendency to dot my i's and cross my t's. In all cases so far in this resort community we have been looking at, it has paid off. But had I left it up to the agents or appraisers, we would have proceeded with property we would have regretted as things came to light with pest or mold inspections, surveys and CAMA lines, building codes...etc.

It can be a daunting thought to drop a half million or so on a property one may have spent 30 minutes in even if it was two or three times. I spend more time picking out a car! But that seems to be what some agents want you to do in resort communities.
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Old 08-31-2013, 07:19 PM   #57
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It can be a daunting thought to drop a half million or so on a property one may have spent 30 minutes in even if it was two or three times. I spend more time picking out a car! But that seems to be what some agents want you to do in resort communities.
I think the main problem is that agents have a totally different goal from buyers. The buyer is going to lay out something between a meaningful and a frightening amount of money, and he needs it to work out long term. The agent just wants to get some of that money so he can go home.

When I think about the agent's thought process, I am reminded of a Dr. John song about another ethically challenging situation.



Ha
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Old 08-31-2013, 07:35 PM   #58
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Very true Ha! And in fact I've had an agent tell me this very thing in not so many word a couple of times. Her words, "If you don't buy it, someone else will". LOL!
(BTW - I ran from the subtle manipulation)
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Old 09-01-2013, 12:36 AM   #59
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Congrats on the sale!

Just a small comment. I have only experienced CA where it seems to me to be all about the contingencies - these can be for items such as inspections or for loan. Cash removes the loan contingencies, but if all other contingencies remain in place, then these still offer opportunities for delay and contract cancellation.

From a buyer perspective, cash, 10-15 day closing and leaving inspection contingency gives the buyer an out for the first part of the contract, but still makes the terms look attractive.

I have only sold to those with a mortgage, and luckily no problems but 30+ days of waiting for certainty means the actual closing for me was very anti-climactic compared to the offer where I wanted to be excited but couldn't celebrate until settlement.
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Old 09-01-2013, 11:56 AM   #60
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As a cash buyer, the only contingency I would remove is anything dealing with getting funding, or any type of Funding Objection deadline.

All others would remain in place. I would still want objection deadlines around Inspection, Title work, Survey, and Appraisal. Although, since funding isn't an issue, and the closing date is likely moved up a lot because of that, the actual deadlines will be tighter as well. But they're still an "out" for the buyer.

Especially on the inspection. Not sure about in other states, but in Colorado you could get out of a contract (and get your earnest money back) via the inspection objection for just about any reason. You could just say the buyer objected to the condition of the property and elects to terminate the contract. Didn't have to get specific, or give the seller a chance to correct. That's why, as listing agents, we always wanted the inspection objection deadline as soon as possible after the contract was executed, usually within 5 to 7 days. We wanted that "get out of jail free" card out of the way as soon as possible, so we could mark the property as Active again on the MLS if the buyer changed their mind for any reason.
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