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Change order or correction?
Old 12-19-2013, 07:43 PM   #1
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Change order or correction?

My remodel is finally coming into the home stretch. The cabinets on one wall have all been installed, but on the other side there's a problem with the location of the gas supply for the stove. At the time it was put in, I had only made a preliminary plan. It shows a 30" range, 18" from the end wall, for a total of 48". The final design has an 18" cabinet at the end, but there's a filler between the end cabinet and the wall which makes it effectively more like 20" wide. The plumber put the gas supply line 49-1/2" from the wall with a flange about 2.5" in diameter around the pipe where it comes out of the floor, and it's probably going to have to be moved. My question is, should moving the gas supply be considered a change order, which I will be charged for, or is it a correction, which should be done at no additional charge?

I don't know why he put the supply line where he did. Shouldn't it have been put closer to the middle of the stove to avoid this very problem?
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Old 12-19-2013, 08:52 PM   #2
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Maybe his original thought was to have the gas line come through the adjacent cabinet with a valve so that you could shut off the gas without moving the stove. But it sounds like the pipe is now coming up where the cabinet side will be, based on your final plan. I would ask him why he put it where he did, and then assess whether or not he put it in wrong based on his response.
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Old 12-19-2013, 09:39 PM   #3
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Mine is near the middle of the stove IIRC. I would talk to him and ask him why he put it where he did and see what he says. Then explain the problem and see what solutions he suggests.
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Old 12-20-2013, 08:24 AM   #4
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I knew a contractor that has a nice sport fishing boat, and the boat was named "Change Order". That said, I agree with the above advice.
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Old 12-20-2013, 09:40 AM   #5
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I knew a contractor that has a nice sport fishing boat, and the boat was named "Change Order". That said, I agree with the above advice.
There's a sport fisher in my neck of the water with the same name.
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Old 12-20-2013, 10:12 AM   #6
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There's a sport fisher in my neck of the water with the same name.
I can't remember, but I think he was from Texas or California.
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Old 12-21-2013, 09:24 AM   #7
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If the contractors created their proposals and contracts based upon a design where this would not be a problem and you have changed the design, it is a "change order" and if there is a change to the costs for the contractors, you should pay for it.
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Old 12-21-2013, 09:57 AM   #8
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Originally Posted by kyounge1956 View Post
My remodel is finally coming into the home stretch. The cabinets on one wall have all been installed, but on the other side there's a problem with the location of the gas supply for the stove. At the time it was put in, I had only made a preliminary plan. It shows a 30" range, 18" from the end wall, for a total of 48". The final design has an 18" cabinet at the end, but there's a filler between the end cabinet and the wall which makes it effectively more like 20" wide. The plumber put the gas supply line 49-1/2" from the wall with a flange about 2.5" in diameter around the pipe where it comes out of the floor, and it's probably going to have to be moved. My question is, should moving the gas supply be considered a change order, which I will be charged for, or is it a correction, which should be done at no additional charge?

I don't know why he put the supply line where he did. Shouldn't it have been put closer to the middle of the stove to avoid this very problem?
What information did you give the contractor on what cabinetry would be installed where? Also, did you give the contractor cut sheets on the stove (or is the stove at your house for the plumber to look at?) Perhaps the gas connection on the stove is in such a place that necessitated where the gas line was stubbed up through the floor?

Also, there could be a relatively cheap fix - just put your shut-off valve in the basement in a far more accessible space than behind the stove, and run a flexible corrugated steel line up through the floor in a new hole to your stove. Might cost $20 for the flexible line (they make them in variable lengths, up to 36" or more).

One other thing to remember - there are a million different ways to plumb piping. What is 'obvious' to you is 'stupid' to a tradesman. And ask 10 plumbers how to plumb anything, and you'll likely get at least 4 different answers - all technically correct in different ways, and none likely 100% wrong.

Overall, I don't see this being a major issue to correct, one way or the other.
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Old 12-21-2013, 11:33 AM   #9
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Change Orders usally come about when a customer changes an agreed upon design or specifications or timeframe for doing the work. There is also something known as standard/good industry practice, and you might have a case to fight a Change Order if the contractor deviated from such generally accepted practice without a reasonable reason for doing so.
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Old 12-21-2013, 11:01 PM   #10
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It's only a change order if you told the plumber where you originally wanted the gas line to come through ( either verbally or using a drawing or sketch) and then "changed your mind" and now want it to come through in the new location. If they simply did not use normal standard of care or coordinate properly, then they screwed up. Assuming you haven't paid them yet, you hold "leverage" in this situation. Simply don't pay until they redo the work correctly to your full satisfaction.

It's really as simple as that.
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Old 12-21-2013, 11:13 PM   #11
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Maybe his original thought was to have the gas line come through the adjacent cabinet with a valve so that you could shut off the gas without moving the stove. But it sounds like the pipe is now coming up where the cabinet side will be, based on your final plan. I would ask him why he put it where he did, and then assess whether or not he put it in wrong based on his response.
Yes, I think we need more info. What was going on that other side of the stove?

<---18" CAB---><---------30" STOVE----------->||<?-?-?-?-?>

<2"><---18" CAB---><---------30" STOVE----------->||<?-?-?-?-?>


On the surface, it would seem that the valve would have been placed in the middle of the stove, so ~ 18" plus half of 48", so 18+24 = 32". So an extra 2" filler would just have it 2" off-center, which would still be fine.

But placing it at 49 1/2"? I don't understand, so I don't understand what problem this causes. It must be like Ronstar points out - the valve was to be just to the side of the stove. In that case, I guess moving the stove over 2" interferes. And being able to access the valve w/o moving the stove is a plus, so this is probably what he was thinking.

I'm guessing he will give you an answer that makes sense for that stove placement, and he will consider this a change. I'd question why not in the back of the stove - but if you signed off on it being to the side, I think that will be a problem for you.

Fix is probably simple, don't let him make it harder than it is.

-ERD50
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Old 12-22-2013, 08:47 AM   #12
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Where did OP go?
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Old 12-22-2013, 09:20 AM   #13
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The new cabinet may have open space under the bottom, usually as high as the front kick space. If so, may be easy to use an elbow to run the pipe through the side of the cabinet and place the cutoff in the stove space.
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Old 12-22-2013, 10:16 AM   #14
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The new cabinet may have open space under the bottom, usually as high as the front kick space. If so, may be easy to use an elbow to run the pipe through the side of the cabinet and place the cutoff in the stove space.
+1

or even if it is to high you can cut some holes in the back of the cab.--- no one will know
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