Cheap, decent desktop

[dizzy]

Geez -- proud to make CFBs ignore list if that's all it takes.

GMA 915 was June 2004, and was promised to run "Longhorn" in all its glory Intel 915 Review . MS couldn't make it work in then end.

Talk about trolling, CFB started this thread and it basically became a Dell commercial. I got tired of it and decided to have some fun.

In all seriousness, if you're a feeds-and-speeds tech tinkerer, go for a Dell (or better yet build your own PC, its not that hard and really is the best value.) If you've been in the PC world for a while and are getting frustrated, do yourself a favor and wander into an Apple Retail store and spend an hour with a Mac, or talk to friends who have one. Rational people buy macs every day. Don't listen to me or CFB, decide for yourself.

 

[dex]

Wow, where to start?

I'm running Aero on a 945 right now and have been for almost a year; it works fine. Vista was supposed to run on some hardware sold over 2 years ago that it turns out wont run it very well...same thing happened with OSX. OSX sucked for almost 2 years after it was first released. I didnt like Vista much on release but now that we've gotten to SP1, its pretty good so they're ahead of Apple in that department. Apple was #3 in customer service a couple of years back.

.

Maybe you can tell me what is wrong with my new Lenovo with Vista Business with Aero 1.8 intel duo; 150g hard drive; 2g Ram
Sometimes when I click on a program function like Update Spybot search and Distroy the screen goes black - I have to hit esc to get back.

The aero thing is nice but does it use up a lot of resourses? If so would the computer be faster not using it? It appears from what I can find out about it that it doesn't give a great deal of functionality over xp

The other one is with the cursor - The little circle thing is always popping up next to it and the hard drive light does the same thing. Like now when I'm writing this message.


Thanks

 

[cute fuzzy bunny]

Have you updated your graphics drivers to the more recent versions? You could find them either at the lenovo web site or intels web site under graphics downloads. Might solve the problem.

Have you applied all the vista updates as well?

Aero can use up some resources, but you've got plenty to spare. I found I actually had some minor troubles when I turned it off. It is like any other eye candy though...after a while you dont really notice it anymore.

The cursor spin/drive light means something is happening on your machine. Could be automatic disk defragmenting, downloading updates, or some program that came on the machine is doing something. Its hard to say.

BTW, I often have trouble with spybot versions hanging and misbehaving. Do you have the latest version?

 

[Rustic23]

Bunny,
Keep the info coming. While I am not now in the market, who knows when, and a Mac it will not be. It does amaze me that you post a $300 computer deal and someone comes back 'yea a $1,200 Mac is really a better deal! It is like the thread about a Honda Civic and someone comes in and says 'Yea but a Bently is what your should really drive' I know, a bad analogy as a Bently really is a better car than a Civic. However it gets you from point A to B, and most computers out there get you email, light word processing, and the INTERNET.

 

[Khan]

Bunny,
Keep the info coming. While I am not now in the market, who knows when, and a Mac it will not be. It does amaze me that you post a $300 computer deal and someone comes back 'yea a $1,200 Mac is really a better deal! It is like the thread about a Honda Civic and someone comes in and says 'Yea but a Bently is what your should really drive' I know, a bad analogy as a Bently really is a better car than a Civic. However it gets you from point A to B, and most computers out there get you email, light word processing, and the INTERNET.

What he said. You know more about this stuff than I do; and at some point I will buy another PC (likely Dell).

 

[travelover]

Ditto. I'm not in the desktop market now, but will be eventually and I learn a lot from CFB's posts.

My DW uses a Mac and likes it, but for what she paid, I could replace my PC 3 times - Macs are good but not a good value, IMHO.

 

[W2R]

What he said. You know more about this stuff than I do; and at some point I will buy another PC (likely Dell).

Right now I have a desktop computer and a laptop on a wireless connection.

I think I may not replace my desktop, once it craters. Cheap laptops have finally become powerful enough and my computing needs have diminished enough that I don't think I need a desktop any more. It's still interesting to read about the bargains CFB comes up with, though!

 

[Dreamer]

I agree with keep posting. I also learn alot from your posts.

 

[cute fuzzy bunny]

Eh, I dont think a loser troll who's too chickenshit to do his 'fun' trolling from his regular account is going to be much of a deterrent.

Its still amazing how much you can get for your money on some of these cheap deals. They do tend to mostly be Dells because anything else I find at these price points arent better build quality items or have some deficiency that makes them something I wouldnt really recommend vs other options.

My desktop is an HP and my laptop is an Acer. But my wife and MIL have matching Dell 17" laptops and my BIL has a 4 year old Dell desktop. Havent really had any problems with any of them other than some very early Vista problems on the Acer.

 

[dizzy]

OK I admit it, my getting involved in this thread was meant partly as a joke. I hereby publicly apologize to CFB for rickrolling Rickroll him.

But its only partly a joke... the reality is that the premium on an iMac over a similar configured Dell is likely at most 10%, not 3-4x. What CFB didn't tell you about his "look what I get for a grand" Dell config is that it had no monitor, no speakers, no wireless, and no bluetooth (all of which are standard on the iMac.) I went to Dell's site and tried to configure an XPS and similar to an Apple iMac, and guess what: add that stuff into the XPS and it comes in around $1449. The similarly configured iMac is $1499. (Apple does gouge you on additional memory, though...) This price delta in this segment is not atypical. Dell has recently been running its business around 5% margin, where as Apple is around 15%, so a 10% premium is in line with this. In the core segment of the PC business its probably much closer though since Dells margins are dragged down by their competing in the $500 PC market (where Apple does not). Also Apples PC margins are probably lower than their iPod margins, so I wouldn't be surprised if the PC business is somewhat less than the Apple average. Overall, I'll bet the margins on a $1500 PC for Apple and Dell are within 5%.

More broadly, I think the PC business is in serious trouble. The PC manufacturers have no ability to innovate and the only lever they can throw is price. When you compete on price, quality does down. They end up holding less and less of the PC profit pie as more and more goes to Microsoft and Intel. I can assure you that no one (with the exception of MS and Intel) is making money on $500 PCs. Dell used to compete by being the most efficient manufacturer, but now Apple regularly beats them on inventory and cash conversion metrics. Anyway, these macro issues are probably of little concern for someone looking for a "decent cheap PC", but keep in mind these $500 PCs are "loss leaders" designed to get you in the door -- oldest marketing trick in the book. In the $1500 PC range, Apple is actually quite competitive, providing good value at a fair price in a very sustainable way.

Yes I am a relative newbie, and yes this is my real and only account.

 

[cute fuzzy bunny]

Those tricky PC makers can keep fooling me into buying these super cheap computers on the occasions when I need one.

Since you still wanna play the game, I configured an Inspiron desktop to compare with the iMac (the XPS is an upscale machine...the iMac is not) with a better processor, more memory, a better graphics processor, Klipsch speakers, bluetooth, wireless-N, a combo Blue-Ray player/dvd burner/cd burner, a larger and better monitor, and a FOUR YEAR in home warranty WITH accident protection and it was a whopping $1200 vs $1499 for the inferior iMac.

When I dropped the specs and warranty to almost exactly match the iMac, it was around $800.

Oh, and if you long for the Mac OS, buy a copy and use one of the many available free hacks to make it run on your el cheapo Dell machine.

 

[Notmuchlonger]

Slacking on the laptop front CFB. Im getting awfully close to pulling the trigger

 

[cute fuzzy bunny]

I've got something for ya...

Gateway - Laptop with Intel® Centrino® - P-6831FX



Some decent deals in Dell small business for Vostros and Latitudes. Nice deal on a latitude d530 for $679 reasonably well equipped with solid build quality.

The Dell Online Store: Build Your System

 

[Notmuchlonger]

Thats a lot of video card for that price!

 

[dizzy]

I would think the iMac is clearly superior in build quality (not to mention ID) to the Inspiron... but to each his own...

Mac vs PC pricing appears to be a popular topic on the net. From scanning these articles, it looks like at best, the Mac models are at reasonable parity and even cheaper in some cases. At worst, its maybe a couple hundred more for a comparable config.

Apple's New MacBook: Favorable Price Comparison to Dell - Seeking Alpha

Mac vs. PC Cost Comparisons - a Fair Fight? :: My First Mac - Help Buying and Getting Started with Your New Mac

Apple vs Dell Comparison

The myth of the $500 computer « Island in the Net

Apple Packs the Boxes with Treats « Confessions of an Ex-Windows User

I saw no evidence to back up the original claim that Apple was gouging 3-4x for its "fairy dust". I don't see how Apple could have a viable PC business at all if that were actually true. (there are only so many suckers in the world...)

 

[Notmuchlonger]

I do some gaming. Apple doesn't fill my gaming needs.

 

[cute fuzzy bunny]

I would think the iMac is clearly superior in build quality (not to mention ID) to the Inspiron...

No, it is not. They use roughly the same motherboard, similar power supply quality, and IMO the inspiron is far better ventilated and much easier to service and upgrade.

But dont take my word for it. I've only got 30+ years of experience in the PC business, including apple products going back to the IIe.


Notmuchlonger...pretty slick for the price, eh? Thought that'd be right up your alley. Too bad its a gateway though...not the best made machine and they might not be around a lot longer. CPU is a little weak compared to the rest of the box, but IMO any intel dual core cpu is probably good enough for most apps and a lot of the games you like are more graphics dependent.

I'll bet the sucker runs pretty hot with that 8800 in it when you're cranking Bioshock. Might need to use my old trick...stick a flat cookie sheet between it and your lap to avoid overheating any crucial components I got a nice one thats just a thick flat piece of aluminum with one side slightly turned up about a 1/4". Just slightly larger than the laptop. Keeps your knees from blocking any vent holes and makes it a lot more comfortable to use. I might velcro it on to keep it from slipping off.

 

[Notmuchlonger]

Im wondering about battery life. It is a good price. I been trying to get Dell's in that price range and they all came up pretty weak.

 

[cute fuzzy bunny]

Figure 2-2.5 hours at best. If you're running it flat out, maybe 90 minutes. Get a second battery...

Drive is only a 5400rpm, so its a little light in that department as well, but again most games arent too disk intensive and that might run a little cooler.

But yeah, you're looking at another $800-1000 to get similar specs in a dell or alienware. But they'd be around in 2 years.

 

[Notmuchlonger]

Ya Im comfortable with fixing my desktop I built our own. However a laptop is a different story. At least with Dell I know Im getting customer service.

 

[cute fuzzy bunny]

You could always buy a 3 year extended warranty through bestbuy and make it their problem.

$250. A little stiff but that makes the whole thing still cheaper than a basic alienware or dell that only has a year warranty.

 

[dizzy]

Just noticed Dell's XPS One line. Clearly the XPS is being positioned against Apple in terms of style, features, and quality. It also looks like the price points are quite similar, with the entry level iMac actually starting out lower. So if you're in the market for an entry level all-in-one, iMac's are actually cheaper.

 

[Rustic23]

Because people like you are willing to pay!

 

[cute fuzzy bunny]

Yep, theres a reason why companies like starbucks apple, dyson and bose can turn out mundane everyday products and get paid twice as much for them. Kinda laughable to be buying up something and paying extra based on marketing, but to then ptui on a company that sells stuff cheap as using "marketing tricks".

I wouldnt ever recommend an all-in-one product to anyone unless they have severe space constraints and simply cant make due with a slimline tower and separate monitor. Considering some of the slimlines are about the size of a large hardcover book, you'd have to be pretty badly constrained. In those circumstances, you might want to consider a 17" laptop instead. Windows based 17" laptops can be had for under $600 pretty much any day of the week.

All-in-ones are usually a lot harder to upgrade and repair, require specialty parts that are very expensive, and its a wee bit hard to upgrade the monitor or keep the monitor and upgrade the rest of the system.

I'll just take the $350 computer that comes with a 19" or 20" monitor. You can always add any speakers you want, have it equipped with any wireless/comm option that makes you happy, upgrade the monitor if you want something different, get a little more cpu horsepower if you're going to be encoding video and making dvds, or put a big honking disk drive in it if you want to store a lot of digital media.

Anyone can fix them with parts off the shelf, any part can be upgraded or swapped for a different type at a minimal cost, and if it just doesnt suit you a year or two from now you can sell either the monitor or system unit for $100-150 and buy a replacement and you'll still be doing well financially vs an all-in-one.

Wow...I thought for a second there that I'd price up a mac mini, the cheapest available mac, just to get an idea of what their 'cheap' discrete system would cost. $599 for the system unit, a couple of hundred bucks to kick up the ram and disk to match the cheap dell system, $599 for a monitor, a hundred bucks for a keyboard and mouse...it ended up at $1499. At that it has an older motherboard chip set, and an inferior graphics chip (950 vs x3100).

When I went to look at the Mac Pro, which would be good competition for the $999 dell system I pointed at earlier, the price was $2399 similarly equipped with no monitor.

What a rip!

 

[dizzy]

Timely post today about Apples PC biz in Fortune. Money quote:

...although consumers and investors tend to believe Macs cost 20% to 30% more than comparable PCs, according to Munster, he did some price comparisons and found that on average, the price difference is closer to 16% for desktop machines and 9% for laptops — essentially unchanged from a similar comparison he made two years ago.

(Despite the date ... I promise ... no rickroll... really... honest...)
Analyst: Apple’s U.S. consumer market share now 21 percent

The article also notes that Apple's ability to buck the trend and slightly increase ASP in a climate of declining ASPs, while simultaneously increasing its market share is "evidence of a compelling product line". ( IMO its also more evidence that Apple is smart to avoid the bloodbath of the <$500 PC business. )

So yet another analysis reveals that the [-]fairy-dust[/-] lower techno-stress Mac lifestyle can be had for a modest premium of 10-15%. I think its a reasonable value, as do the couple of million of people who will buy Macs this quarter.

I do some gaming. Apple doesn't fill my gaming needs.

I hear you. I would not recommend Macs for serious gamers. However, the transition to Intel has seen some slight improvement (my 81 year old Dad gets great satisfaction out of trouncing me at EA's Tiger Woods PGA Tour '08 on his Intel iMac). Two other factors also hold out some hope for Mac gaming -- increased Mac marketshare is a big driver of the economic viability of mac based titles. The fact that Apple is now over 20% of US consumer sales can only help. Also the iPhone SDK looks to be a great platform for games, and since development for the iPhone occurs on Macs, I wouldn't be surprised if there is some halo effect around Mac gaming. But these are potential 2-3 year trends, and like you say, if your in the market now as a serious gamer, your better off with an tricked out gaming PC. (And help the PC guys subsidize those <$500 configs!)

dizzy