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Old 06-27-2010, 08:56 AM   #61
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The really sad thing, to DW and me anyway, is that they never went for medical help. They decided that if they couldn't get pregnant without assistance, it was God's will. Now I can see why some people might draw the line at IVF, but they didn't even go to see if it was a blocked tube or something. (Another reason DW and I are glad to be non-religious.)
Did they never consider adoption? Maybe I'm wired differently than most, but I've never understood the importance some people place on insisting that their children must come from their own DNA.

And I don't believe the "God's will" stuff. Even if one is a believer, if God didn't want us to have the abilities to advance in science and medicine, He wouldn't have given us those skills. IVF is no more "playing God", IMO, than heart bypass surgery or taking antibiotics.
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Old 06-27-2010, 11:05 AM   #62
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Did they never consider adoption? Maybe I'm wired differently than most, but I've never understood the importance some people place on insisting that their children must come from their own DNA.
No idea, although I don't think DW and I would have been keen to adopt if our reproductive systems hadn't been functioning
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And I don't believe the "God's will" stuff. Even if one is a believer, if God didn't want us to have the abilities to advance in science and medicine, He wouldn't have given us those skills. IVF is no more "playing God", IMO, than heart bypass surgery or taking antibiotics.
Well, of course, some religions don't like those last two either; but IVF is specifically considered to be "gravely evil" by the Catholic Church, and that's over a billion people they're talking to. In fact it seems to me that the whole point of most religions is that there are certain rules which you stick to no matter what other evidence may be suggesting to you, because the doctrine tells you that that evidence should be ignored in favour of faith (and may ndeed have been put there by Satan specifically to test such faith, which sort of reminds me of how conspiracy theories work).
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Old 06-28-2010, 04:44 PM   #63
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Kids certainly provide an answer to "Whaddya do all day?".
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Old 06-28-2010, 04:57 PM   #64
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Let's put it this way: I understand why people beat their kids. I didn't, my parents didn't, my sister didn't, and I don't condone it.
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Old 06-28-2010, 05:24 PM   #65
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More on the original study via Andrew Sullivan
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Old 06-29-2010, 02:19 PM   #66
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I liked "Idiocracy" too, but then again I consider the public to be dumbasses. I know its a personal flaw and I really am trying to work on it.

The trouble with being a parent is this: There is no try it before you buy it period. Sure, you can babysit and all that, but you really need a good 1 year sentence trial period to be sure.

Can't return the kid after 1 year tho.
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Old 06-29-2010, 02:33 PM   #67
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I liked "Idiocracy" too, but then again I consider the public to be dumbasses. I know its a personal flaw and I really am trying to work on it.

The trouble with being a parent is this: There is no try it before you buy it period. Sure, you can babysit and all that, but you really need a good 1 year sentence trial period to be sure.

Can't return the kid after 1 year tho.
To become a parent requires what Soren Kierkegaard called a "leap of faith". Maybe not something commonly done by ER.orgizens.

Kierkegaard's point is that no matter how rigorous your logical system, there will always be gaps. As these gaps are logical gaps, it is futile to try and bridge them. Instead, they can only be breached by a leap of faith. What characterises a leap of faith is the absolute uncertainty that underlies it. Faith is by definition that which cannot be proven or disproved. That is why a leap of faith is undertaken in 'fear and trembling".
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Old 06-29-2010, 02:37 PM   #68
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What I think this shows more than anything is that today it's more acceptable to be a highly educated professional woman *and* a mother than it used to be.
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RIP to Reemy, my avatar dog (2003 - 9/16/2017)
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Old 07-06-2010, 07:34 AM   #69
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Most people I know with children appear very happy to my eyes. Many childless couples I know are also very happy. DH and I were on both sides of this...very happy up until age 41 without, and now very happy with. I think the beauty of the decision is that if you are already happy without children as a choice, you are unlikely to suddenly find yourself unhappy. If you decide to take the plunge, you are also likely to be happy. It is a win-win decision.

Now on the other hand, if you want to see a happy married couple become unhappy in a hurry, you can find this where one partner decides it's time, and the other refuses or has changed their mind. Best to get that sorted out a priori.
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