Children

[Senator]

Quote:

Originally Posted by ivinsfan I get the list, but have a problem understanding number 2.....that's pretty passive for a life long huge impact decision. Now I know a few married couples that already had a kid or two and had a unplanned pregnancy ..and that was like well, what's one more. But I couldn't see being that ambivalent about the first baby.

That is old fashioned thinking. Most children hospital costs today are paid for by Medicaid, and who knows who pays for the kids once brought home. Often it is a meal ticket.

I know my renters from the old days only qualify for benefits with kids, and the more kids the more benefits. Therefore, they were able to be financially independent by age 18.

[Hamlet]

Quote:

Originally Posted by ivinsfan I get the list, but have a problem understanding number 2.....that's pretty passive for a life long huge impact decision. Now I know a few married couples that already had a kid or two and had a unplanned pregnancy ..and that was like well, what's one more. But I couldn't see being that ambivalent about the first baby.

It's funny, we found that having a 2nd child increases the difficulty exponentially. When you have one small child, you can each get plenty of breaks and time to do your own thing. Watching one child is pretty straightforward.

However, when you've got a 3-year-old and a 6-year-old, we found that they can be an awful lot for one person to handle alone for long periods of time. Our children are pretty high energy, and we've had a challenging time getting them to behave ( now that the oldest is six, she is getting a lot better in that area). So neither of us is getting a lot of time to ourselves currently.

The 3-year-old is a little terror right now. She can't seem to wind down for a nap anymore, so she gets just crazy tired in the afternoon, and with that comes misbehavior. We had similar issues with the older one, and we pretty much had to wait for her to age out of needing a nap.

My coworker who has seven has told me the biggest jump in difficult was from one to two. We have our hands full with two, and certainly won't intentionally have another

[Teacher Terry]

What would be much worse then having no grandchildren would be having to raise them.

[ExFlyBoy5]

Quote:

Originally Posted by Senator No kids, I was on the early retirement program. Never wanted them, they are also the leading cause of virtually all negative environmental issues. I picked up my sisters kid once. It spit up, and she laughed, "it's just milk". It wasn't, it was puke. And that is the good stuff that comes out of them.

This made me laugh as well...thank you! I have never had an affinity for "small children" (under the age of about 8) and to me, every single baby I have *ever* seen might as well as been "the baby" from Seinfeld...

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rkadtxlCRU4

At any rate, I have enjoyed being childfree and yes, I think that has been a huge variable in being able to retire early. Granted, if a kid came around, I don't think I would go back to w*rk, but then again, I wouldn't be spending thousands of dollars so the kid could travel to every stinking sporting event in the south, either. We have given consideration to foster/adopt (have fostered in that past) but truth be told, I think I am just too selfish to do so. Getting approved and licenced to be a foster home is HUGE pain in the arse and I just not inclined to do it again.

I also think times have changed. My DW has two sisters, aged 33, 39 (my DW) and 47...and NONE of them have children. The youngest has even worked with kids her entire adult life and although she *does* like kids, she is content to not have any of her own (even went so far as to have a tubal ligation when her husband refused to get a vasectomy). Even more remarkable is that her family has deep Mexican roots which tend to value having kids, so it's a bit odd. Most of my friends from HS (that I still associate with, anyway) don't have kids, either...so I think this is definitely a newer trend.

Last thought...I remember like yesterday after I got the "all clear" after my vasectomy; It was a celebration like no other!

[2017ish]

Quote:

Originally Posted by Hamlet It's funny, we found that having a 2nd child increases the difficulty exponentially. When you have one small child, you can each get plenty of breaks and time to do your own thing. Watching one child is pretty straightforward. ...

Our experience feeling was that the third was the big difference. No longer had a pair of hands to pick up each kid. (eldest was 3.5 years old when number three was born, but just 16 months when the second came, which likely impacted our perception....)

[Teacher Terry]

When I was pregnant with the 3rd a man at work said you just went from being a small family to a large family. He said you won't fit in a hotel room, booth at a restaurant and will not have enough hands. He was right of course. For hotel rooms we would have to get a cot for the 3rd kid. However,my kids were 7 and 3 when the youngest was born so if I went somewhere with all 3 alone I would have the oldest hold the hand of the 3 yo. I had a friend with 6 kids (all planned) and they had to get 2 hotel rooms.

[Fedup]

Thank goodness my husband said no more after the second kid, especially after I told him I was most fertile within the first year of giving birth to the second child, otherwise I would still be paying for college tuition.

[Free]

Raising 4 children (1 girl and 3 boys) into adulthood wasn't always easy or inexpensive. They made it though and all are now through college, and gainfully employed. The three boys are married and live close by. The daughter is single and lives out of state.

DW and I were able to pay for all the schooling at state universities and help with vehicles, insurance, etc. along the way. We're for the most part done financially supporting them since they're on their own now. I did help my daughter with some unexpected expenses a few months ago. She says she'll pay it back, but I'm not worried about it.

I've helped them all in a lot of ways and plan to do so as I'm able. The kids are all close and DW and I never regreted raising a family.

We have a couple of grandkids we tend about once a week and I love it! A few weeks ago our just turned 3 year old grandaughter and I were going through a ABC's/Numbers workbook sitting on the front porch and she looked up at me and said - "Grandpa, you're my very best friend". How do you put a price on that?

[Teacher Terry]

That is awesome)

[RetiredGypsy]

I'm 11, laying in bed one night, picturing my future, wondering how I'll grow in life from here. I was an odd kid. I'm an odd adult.

So. 11 years old, and I decided I was never going to have kids. I was also going to have a motorcycle, go sailing, pierce my ear, and hopefully become an astronaut. Altogether, no more ridiculous an outlier than what adults can dream up.

Mike Rowe once said it's as selfish to want children as it is to not want them. He's not the first to make that observation. It's one I agree with.

Am I a perpetual 11 year-old who has refused to mature into adulthood because I haven't changed my mind? I've been able to do all the things I've wanted to do since I was a child (and I figure Space-X will help bury my ashes on Mars, so I'm hitting that last goal too). Maybe Tiger Woods is still a child since he's still playing golf?

I've saved a lot, and spent an embarrassing sum on cartoons, and games, and toys, and toys that go fast, almost all developed by teams of adults in multi-billion dollar companies.

My philosophy is, simply, a family is whatever you decide it is, because historically a family unit has been defined by the needs of any given community within any given society.

I have no interest in raising children. Being free from that responsibility has given me the ability to live a life with a much greater standard of living and more freedom, given the same resources that I otherwise would have been splitting in raising someone.

[ivinsfan]

Quote:

Originally Posted by Hamlet It's funny, we found that having a 2nd child increases the difficulty exponentially. When you have one small child, you can each get plenty of breaks and time to do your own thing. Watching one child is pretty straightforward. However, when you've got a 3-year-old and a 6-year-old, we found that they can be an awful lot for one person to handle alone for long periods of time. Our children are pretty high energy, and we've had a challenging time getting them to behave ( now that the oldest is six, she is getting a lot better in that area). So neither of us is getting a lot of time to ourselves currently. The 3-year-old is a little terror right now. She can't seem to wind down for a nap anymore, so she gets just crazy tired in the afternoon, and with that comes misbehavior. We had similar issues with the older one, and we pretty much had to wait for her to age out of needing a nap. My coworker who has seven has told me the biggest jump in difficult was from one to two. We have our hands full with two, and certainly won't intentionally have another

Amen... we have 2 and never wanted to add to our family, but if a third had come along, it's still a less of a shock then rolling the dice on having the first kid. Nothing changes your life like parenthood.

[iloveyoga]

Quote:

Originally Posted by pacergal We certainly would have been financially better off at an earlier age with out children. As it was, we were married almost 8 years before they came along. Our kids have provided us with the greatest feeling of love and contentment, but also the most horrific fear of loss and grief with life threatening issues. It is not an easy job to raise kids. The best part is if you are blessed with grandkids! But honestly, if I had to do it over again, I really would put a lot of thought into it.

Nice way to sum it up! They are the best of times, and who knew you could worry like that. The worry never stops. But you are right, without our kids we would have no grandkids. I have had more fun with my grandkids than I would have ever imagined. Not sure how to say this, but we did not really plan or think through either of our kids

[1-31-18]

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ian S I often wonder what life would have been like with children. I think my partner and I would have made good parents but who could know for sure. I certainly would not have had the luxury to leave a secure job to become an entrepreneur but as others have shown there are pluses and minuses to having children. Regarding those commenters who would disinherit their children for opting to remain childless, I have to wonder how encouraging those same commenters would have been had their children been in same-sex relationships and wanting to adopt.

Nice try. One of the two daughters is gay, and is married, and because all the family are libertarian that was never an issue (beyond the initial surprise). She could have conceived a child and also could adopt, as could her partner, but she and her partner have made it clear all along that they will be spending all their money on themselves.

And that is their right. Not what dad would do, or did, but she can live her life the way she wants, at her expense. She can consume every penny of value that she creates or inherits (from others), but she won't be getting any more financial support for her consumption ambition from her dad. Dad paid for MBAs and Ph. Ds and weddings gay and straight, but the gravy train has ended.

Where the gay daughter miscalculated was in treating father disrespectfully after his divorce (a key point), then deeming "his" money to be "hers" when by law it's only hers if and when he gives it to her.

So, rather than give her (millions more) dollars to spend while leaving no trace of the family line, dear old dad will spend it all on himself and his wife and on charities which promote their values. Would rather leave a legacy that way than fund the purchase of more and bigger houses and baubles for people who who treat dad disrespectfully and plan to leave nothing of enduring value on earth when they die.

Don't really care whether anyone else approves, although people who know the family get it. University development officers certainly get it, in both senses of the word. Seems about half of their bequests grow out of situations like this. Successful alumni do not invariably make multi-million dollar bequests to family members who they believe treated them badly. Imagine that.

Having said quite enough about a personal situation in this anonymous group, and noticing how key points keep being overlooked or misconstrued by people with agendas (or short attention spans), will make no other comments about family here. Just answered your question -- now done.

[MichaelB]

Thanks for an interesting discussion.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gBzJGckMYO4