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Re: China 'is more popular' than US
Old 06-24-2005, 02:52 PM   #41
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Re: China 'is more popular' than US

Cool. So it's ok when China does it.
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Re: China 'is more popular' than US
Old 06-24-2005, 03:02 PM   #42
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Re: China 'is more popular' than US

Hey Mr,

I'm no appologist for China's actions in Tibet. I'm just trying to understand the survey that I read as to why the US favorability has fallen dramatically, and China's isn't so bad. China's actions in Tibet are clearly a negative for them.

Your approach reminds me of a recent interview I saw with Karl Rove. Every question was restated in different terms which reframed the issue and failed to address the original question in any meaningful way.
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Re: China 'is more popular' than US
Old 06-24-2005, 03:10 PM   #43
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Re: China 'is more popular' than US

Quote:
Originally Posted by JB
China has also curbed their population growth and have the fastest growing economy (positive).
according to the CIA world factbook (if you trust them), China has a lower growth rate than the US because of one thing, their net emigration. China loses 4 out of 10,000 each year to emigration. The US gains 33 people per 10,000 population each year due to immigration. Anecdotally, I would guess China loses a lot of its best and brightest each year to emigration, and I wonder which country a lot of them go to? The birth minus death rate for China and the US gives around a 0.6% population growth rate for each country.

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Re: China 'is more popular' than US
Old 06-24-2005, 03:14 PM   #44
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Re: China 'is more popular' than US

Quote:
Originally Posted by JB

I'm just trying to understand the survey that I read as to why the US favorability has fallen dramatically, and China's isn't so bad.**
Keep trying to understand it, professor.

As I've said, I think it's because these people are morally retarded- you disagree.

And when you finally figure out why democratic people in other countries favor a brutal, bloody dictatorship like China over the U.S., please enlighten us.
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Re: China 'is more popular' than US
Old 06-24-2005, 03:20 PM   #45
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Re: China 'is more popular' than US

And because of this, I'm sure that the Tibetan portion of the poll participants scored them pretty low!

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You crack me up, professor.

Tell it to the Tibetans.
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Re: China 'is more popular' than US
Old 06-24-2005, 03:21 PM   #46
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Re: China 'is more popular' than US

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And when you finally figure out why democratic people in other countries favor a brutal, bloody dictatorship like China over the U.S., please enlighten us.
Maybe they're stupid?
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Re: China 'is more popular' than US
Old 06-24-2005, 03:23 PM   #47
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Re: China 'is more popular' than US

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Originally Posted by Art
Keep trying to understand it, professor.

As I've said, I think it's because these people are morally retarded- you disagree.

And when you finally figure out why democratic people in other countries favor a brutal, bloody dictatorship like China over the U.S., please enlighten us.
China's next door neighbor Burma is probably worse than China from what I've read. Military dictatorship has imprisoned the popularly elected president for an indefinite period. Sure, they have a democratically elected government, they've just been temporarily imprisoned. Indefinitely. I think Burma might fit the definition of "brutal, bloody dictatorship" better than China.
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Re: China 'is more popular' than US
Old 06-24-2005, 03:26 PM   #48
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Re: China 'is more popular' than US

Quote:
Originally Posted by justin
according to the CIA world factbook (if you trust them), China has a lower growth rate than the US because of one thing, their net emigration. China loses 4 out of 10,000 each year to emigration. The US gains 33 people per 10,000 population each year due to immigration. Anecdotally, I would guess China loses a lot of its best and brightest each year to emigration, and I wonder which country a lot of them go to? The birth minus death rate for China and the US gives around a 0.6% population growth rate for each country.

Interesting, I like the CIA factbook. China's birthrate is on par with the US, and significantly less than India and other developing countries.
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Re: China 'is more popular' than US
Old 06-24-2005, 03:27 PM   #49
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Re: China 'is more popular' than US

Quote:
Originally Posted by Whakamole
Maybe they're stupid?
Probably not. I'd stick with morally retarded.
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Re: China 'is more popular' than US
Old 06-24-2005, 03:31 PM   #50
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Re: China 'is more popular' than US

Art,

People probably respond in how it affects them personally - in other words which country do they feel affects their life in the most negative way. Which country do they see as more disrupting? Which country do they see is more active in pusuing policies that they disagree with? Which country do they see as flouting world opinion? Which country do they see forcing their opinion on others?



Quote:
Originally Posted by Art
Keep trying to understand it, professor.

As I've said, I think it's because these people are morally retarded- you disagree.

And when you finally figure out why democratic people in other countries favor a brutal, bloody dictatorship like China over the U.S., please enlighten us.
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Re: China 'is more popular' than US
Old 06-24-2005, 03:43 PM   #51
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Re: China 'is more popular' than US

Quote:
Originally Posted by jefipius
Art,

People probably respond in how it affects them personally - in other words which country do they feel affects their life in the most negative way. Which country do they see as more disrupting? Which country do they see is more active in pusuing policies that they disagree with? Which country do they see as flouting world opinion? Which country do they see forcing their opinion on others?
No doubt. And, for lack of a better word, I call people such as these- who favor a brutal, bloody dictatorship over the US- moral retards.
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Re: China 'is more popular' than US
Old 06-24-2005, 03:46 PM   #52
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Re: China 'is more popular' than US

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No doubt. And, for lack of a better word, I call people such as these- who favor a brutal, bloody dictatorship over the US- moral retards.
To be fair, they're also drinking the kool-aid of their local press and ruling class. The one that tells them that 'invading countries without provocation' is wrong, even though Europe did it in the 90s and it was OK then. The one that tells them that they're in poverty because of Israel or the US, and not because of their rulers. The one that has had an inferiority complex for years.

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Re: China 'is more popular' than US
Old 06-24-2005, 03:50 PM   #53
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Re: China 'is more popular' than US

Because this thread is just not contentious enough, I thought I'd throw this in ;

http://www.nationmaster.com/graph-T/cri_pri_per_cap

:-)


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No doubt. And, for lack of a better word, I call people such as these- who favor a brutal, bloody dictatorship over the US- moral retards.
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Re: China 'is more popular' than US
Old 06-24-2005, 03:53 PM   #54
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Re: China 'is more popular' than US

Quote:
Originally Posted by Whakamole
To be fair, they're also drinking the kool-aid of their local press and ruling class.* The one that tells them that 'invading countries without provocation' is wrong, even though Europe did it in the 90s and it was OK then.* The one that tells them that they're in poverty because of Israel or the US, and not because of their rulers.* The one that has had an inferiority complex for years.
Whakamole, you are 100% right. I couldn't agree with you more. The factors you cite are some of the things that lead to the moral retardation of large parts of the globe.
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Re: China 'is more popular' than US
Old 06-24-2005, 04:04 PM   #55
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Re: China 'is more popular' than US

Art,

Just curious - Are you saying that if a country tortures and violates human rights less than the US, you'd be a Moral Retard not to prefer them over the US?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Art
Whakamole, you are 100% right. I couldn't agree with you more. The factors you cite are some of the things that lead to the moral retardation of large parts of the globe.
[quote
Anyone who prefers Mainland China's government, which is the largest torturer and violator of human rights on the planet- to the U.S. Government- is a moral retard.
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Re: China 'is more popular' than US
Old 06-24-2005, 04:13 PM   #56
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Re: China 'is more popular' than US

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Are you saying that if a country tortures and violates human rights less than the US, you'd be a Moral Retard not to prefer them over the US?
No, I'm saying that anyone that favors a brutal dictatorship with the blood of roughly 30 million of its own citizens on its hands (estimated death toll from the 1970s Cultural Revolution) over a democracy like the US, imperfect as it is, warts and all, is a moral retard.

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Re: China 'is more popular' than US
Old 06-24-2005, 04:23 PM   #57
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Re: China 'is more popular' than US

Aren't you just arguing degrees? Point to one government (Democracy or not) without blood on its hands.


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Originally Posted by Art
No, I'm saying that anyone that favors a brutal dictatorship with the blood of roughly 30 million of its own citizens on its hands (estimated death toll from the 1970s Cultural Revolution) over a democracy like the US, imperfect as it is, warts and all, is a moral retard.

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Re: China 'is more popular' than US
Old 06-24-2005, 04:49 PM   #58
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Re: China 'is more popular' than US

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Originally Posted by jefipius
Aren't you just arguing degrees? Point to one government (Democracy or not) without blood on its hands.
All governments have violated human rights, true enough.

There are four major yardsticks I use in comparisons between governments:

1) Differences in ORDERS OF MAGNITUDE of violent human rights abuse between countries. You're damn straight.

2) What happens to the guilty parties when violent human rights abuses are exposed.

3) Whether or not there is a free press.

4) Whether or not there are free elections.

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Re: China 'is more popular' than US
Old 06-24-2005, 05:14 PM   #59
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Re: China 'is more popular' than US

I'm sure a survey of Russia's international popularity after the invasion of Afghanistan (sp?) would have shown similar numbers. You guys are taking this way too high level. The people surveyed have the Iraq war top most in their mind, they react negatively to the U.S. decision to go to war. If the survey sat down with these people and asked them questions like, "what do you think of their bicameral democratic republic system, constitution, etc." the results would be much different. I think the world has a love/hate relationship with the U.S., and it almost seems human nature to pile on when the champ stumbles.

Take it a step further, when people lose their job, they blame the President for a lousy economy, I could see the rest of the world, looking at us as the sole superpower, would blame us for any misfortune they see (Colonialist Americans ruining my rice crop!).

If I was a betting man, I'd obviously have my money on China being much worse than America, but I'm not into excusing poor behavior on our part because some one else is worse. China could then cheer and say, "hey, we're not Pol Pot!". It's our duty to demand better of our country, I already know this is the best country, no need to stop and compare.

You know how if a single piece of litter ends up in a park, pretty soon it's litter strewn? Once we start negotiating away pieces of our collective soul, it's as good as gone.
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Re: China 'is more popular' than US
Old 06-24-2005, 09:04 PM   #60
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Re: China 'is more popular' than US

Comparisons to China are rediculous, and the survey doesn't do that. The survey indicates that the favorability rating of the US has tumbled as a result of the policies of the Bush administration (mainly the invasion of Iraq). Recent polls show that even the majority of Americans think that the Iraq war was a mistake.
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