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Re: China 'is more popular' than US
Old 06-24-2005, 09:48 PM   #61
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Re: China 'is more popular' than US

Quote:
Originally Posted by JB
Comparisons to China are rediculous, and the survey doesn't do that.*
From BBC report of poll, link enclosed in first post of this thread:

"China 'is more popular' than US"

"America's image is still so tattered abroad after the Iraq war that China is viewed more favourably than the US in many countries, a global poll finds."

From CNN report of poll, link enclosed in first post of this thread::

"WASHINGTON (AP) -- The United States' image is so tattered overseas two years after the Iraq invasion that communist China is viewed more favorably than the U.S. in many long-time Western European allies, an international poll has found."

From the poll itself, link enclosed in first post of this thread:

"Strikingly, China now has a better image than the U.S. in most of the European nations surveyed."

Whatever you say, JB...


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Re: China 'is more popular' than US
Old 06-24-2005, 10:33 PM   #62
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Re: China 'is more popular' than US

Quote:
Originally Posted by jefipius
Because this thread is just not contentious enough, I thought I'd throw this in ;

http://www.nationmaster.com/graph-T/cri_pri_per_cap

:-)

Interesting that the "brutal, bloody dictatorship" that Art consistently refers imprisons 6 times FEWER of it's population than the US.

I think some of the postings are missing the point. It is not whether on a point by point, issues by issue comparison using an objective test of one regime being "better" than the other. The fact is that the many in the world are less inclined to like the US foreign policy, therefore less likely to support it and therefore less likely to support their own government to support said US policy. Whether Art likes it or not, that is how the world views the US.

Art - it is people like you - (beligerent, my way or the highway, with me or with the enemy, agree with me or I'll shoot) that gives America a bad image abroad. It is precisely this arrogance and intolerance that gets up the nose of a lot of people of this rock.
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Re: China 'is more popular' than US
Old 06-24-2005, 11:14 PM   #63
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Re: China 'is more popular' than US

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Originally Posted by Honkie
Interesting that the "brutal, bloody dictatorship" that Art consistently refers imprisons 6 times FEWER of it's population than the US.
Right. That's because they're much more likely to execute their criminals than imprison them. Usually immediately after the trial- not after the twenty years of appeals they get in the U.S.

But seriously, Honkie- how do you or anyone else know how many people China imprisons?

The prison poll you refer to is pure crap. The U.S. imprisons less of its population per capita than China, Viet Nam, Syria, Iraq, Iran, North Korea?

Are you insane?

As for caring what the moral retards of the world think, you're right, I don't.

As for caring what most countries think- countries that vote, for example, to put Syria on the U.N. Human Rights Commission... or look the other way from the slaughter in the Sudan- you're right- I don't give a damn what they think.

And if they don't like it that we gave millions of Iraqis a chance for freedom from a murderous regime- right again- I don't give a damn.

And if anyone gets upset because I'd sooner ignore than placate the moral retards of the world, I've got no problem with that either.












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Re: China 'is more popular' than US
Old 06-24-2005, 11:27 PM   #64
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Re: China 'is more popular' than US

With all these stats flying around, somebody better cite a source soon!

Art, are you an isolationist, because we do have to play nice with others at some level. I'm pro-America all the way, but we could have done a lot with the capital we had after 9/11 and we burned it up. Some one once said "Countries don't have allies, they have common interests. My enemy today can be my friend tomorrow". I could give a crap what a Frog thinks of us (although I won't call them Freedom Fries, let's have a little self respect ), but we had a lot of goodwill that we could have cashed in for a lot of influence and it's now gone.

Iraq is an inherintly unstable country, the middle east was carved up back in colonial times to split up ethnic/tribal/religous groups on purpose to prevent a power from rising up. But now you see the long term results of having the Kurds spread across three countries, Shias split between two, and related Sunni tribes split between Iraq and Syria. Low level civil war.
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Re: China 'is more popular' than US
Old 06-24-2005, 11:29 PM   #65
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Re: China 'is more popular' than US

Art, I'd like to ask you a serious question or 2.

1 - Have you ever left the US and visited a foreign country?
2 - Have you ever left your home State?
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Re: China 'is more popular' than US
Old 06-24-2005, 11:35 PM   #66
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Re: China 'is more popular' than US

Quote:
Originally Posted by Art
The U.S. imprisons less of its population per capita than China, Viet Nam, Syria, Iraq, Iran, North Korea?*
Should read: "The U.S. imprisons more..."

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Re: China 'is more popular' than US
Old 06-24-2005, 11:42 PM   #67
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Re: China 'is more popular' than US

Quote:
Originally Posted by Honkie
Art, I'd like to ask you a serious question or 2.

1 - Have you ever left the US and visited a foreign country?
2 - Have you ever left your home State?
1. Yes, I visited the Soviet Union in October of 1985 (before Reagan met Gorbachev): Moscow (Hotel Kosmos- I liberated one of the towels), Tbilisi, Yerevan, Baku, St. Petersburg. Stopover in Ireland on the way back. Canada. Israel in 1971.

2. Yes. I left my home state many years ago.
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Re: China 'is more popular' than US
Old 06-24-2005, 11:50 PM   #68
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Re: China 'is more popular' than US

Quote:
Originally Posted by Laurence
With all these stats flying around, somebody better cite a source soon!*

Art, are you an isolationist, because we do have to play nice with others at some level.*
Laurence, there ARE no stats on prison numbers in dictatorships.

I'm not an isolationist, and I don't object to playing nicely with others at some level (I think we are by far, the most generous country in terms of humanitarian aid- and that's fine with me).

But most countries are corrupt- and their people are morally retarded, pathetic and jealous- and I have no desire to cater to them, placate them, or otherwise kiss their morally retarded asses.


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Re: China 'is more popular' than US
Old 06-25-2005, 12:04 AM   #69
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Re: China 'is more popular' than US

Quote:
Originally Posted by Art
Laurence, there ARE no stats on prison numbers in dictatorships.
Let me rephrase that: There are no HONEST stats on prison numbers in dictatorships that would ever see the light of day.
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Re: China 'is more popular' than US
Old 06-25-2005, 12:09 AM   #70
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Re: China 'is more popular' than US

Quote:
Originally Posted by Art
Let me rephrase that: There are no HONEST stats on prison numbers in dictatorships that would ever see the light of day.
Including Guantanemo Bay, apparently......this from the BBC...

US 'stalling UN Guantanamo visit'

Investigators from the United Nations have accused the US of stalling over their repeated requests to visit detainees at Guantanamo Bay.
The UN says it has evidence that torture has taken at the prison amid reports that 520 inmates have had mental breakdowns.

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/world/americas/4123200.stm

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Re: China 'is more popular' than US
Old 06-25-2005, 12:11 AM   #71
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Re: China 'is more popular' than US

Quote:
Originally Posted by Honkie
Including Guantanemo Bay, apparently......this from the BBC...

US 'stalling UN Guantanamo visit'

Investigators from the United Nations have accused the US of stalling over their repeated requests to visit detainees at Guantanamo Bay.
The UN says it has evidence that torture has taken at the prison amid reports that 520 inmates have had mental breakdowns.

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/world/americas/4123200.stm
The "UN" is primarily controlled by corrupt dictatorships.
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Re: China 'is more popular' than US
Old 06-25-2005, 12:15 AM   #72
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Re: China 'is more popular' than US

Quote:
Originally Posted by Art
.

(I think we are by far, the most generous country in terms of humanitarian aid- and that's fine with me).

According to the OECD, the Organisation for Economic Cooperation and Development, the US gave between $6 and $15 billion in foreign aid in the period between 1995 and 1999. In absolute terms, Japan gives more than the US, between $9 and $15 billion in the same period. But the absolute figures are less significant than the proportion of gross domestic product (GDP, or national wealth) that a country devotes to foreign aid. On that league table, the US ranks twenty-second of the 22 most developed nations. As former President Jimmy Carter commented: 'We are the stingiest nation of all'. Denmark is top of the table, giving 1.01% of GDP, while the US manages just 0.1%. The United Nations has long established the target of 0.7% GDP for development assistance, although only four countries actually achieve this: Denmark, 1.01%; Norway, 0.91%; the Netherlands, 0.79%; Sweden, 0.7%. Apart from being the least generous nation, the US is highly selective in who receives its aid. Over 50% of its aid budget is spent on middle-income countries in the Middle East, with Israel being the recipient of the largest single share"
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Re: China 'is more popular' than US
Old 06-25-2005, 12:19 AM   #73
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Re: China 'is more popular' than US

Whakamole - doesn't answer the question. Are prisoners being tortured at Guantanamo??

And I don't think the US can consider itself lilly white when it comes to installing and supporting represive dictatorships, the CIA has been the premier supplier of dictators for decades.

You and Art should get of your self righteous, holier than thou high horse and start to see the world and the US' position and actions it the world for what they really are and not simply those parts that you wish to see.
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Re: China 'is more popular' than US
Old 06-25-2005, 12:21 AM   #74
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Re: China 'is more popular' than US

Quote:
Originally Posted by Whakamole
The "UN" is primarily controlled by corrupt dictatorships.
You are correct, sir.

And isn't it funny that these scum-sucking U.N. inspectors can't be bothered to make the same kind of stink about the Cuban hellholes where innocent Cubans have been tortured and murdered for decades- on the very same island?

Yeah. I give a rat's ass about the U.N. and its "inspectors".
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Re: China 'is more popular' than US
Old 06-25-2005, 12:26 AM   #75
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Re: China 'is more popular' than US

Quote:
Originally Posted by Honkie
Whakamole - doesn't answer the question. Are prisoners being tortured at Guantanamo??

And I don't think the US can consider itself lilly white when it comes to installing and supporting represive dictatorships, the CIA has been the premier supplier of dictators for decades.

You and Art should get of your self righteous, holier than thou high horse and start to see the world and the US' position and actions it the world for what they really are and not simply those parts that you wish to see.
Torture doesn't work. You don't get good results from torture - i.e. actual valid information. This is well-known among those in the field.

The US doesn't trust the UN and neither do I. They put Sudan on the human rights council for God's sake - you know, the country committing genocide?

And excuse me if I ignore the opinions of Europe, seeing as they have been one of the bloodiest continents for centuries and tried to exploit the entire planet.
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Re: China 'is more popular' than US
Old 06-25-2005, 12:27 AM   #76
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Re: China 'is more popular' than US

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Originally Posted by Honkie
Are prisoners being tortured at Guantanamo??
No, Buckwheat- the answer is no.

To see REAL torture- not the fake type that U.S. pseudo-intellectuals enjoy pissing and moaning about 24/7- but real, honest-to-goodness, blood and guts old fashioned torture- you gotta get in to the Cuban hellholes that liberals never mention.
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Re: China 'is more popular' than US
Old 06-25-2005, 12:29 AM   #77
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Re: China 'is more popular' than US

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Originally Posted by Art
No, Buckwheat- the answer is no.

To see REAL torture- not the fake type that U.S. pseudo-intellectuals enjoy pissing and moaning about 24/7- but real, honest-to-goodness, blood and guts old fashioned torture- you gotta get in to the Cuban hellholes that liberals never mention.
Or China.

But then, the Europeans couldn't criticize the US. Then what would they do?
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Re: China 'is more popular' than US
Old 06-25-2005, 01:08 AM   #78
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Re: China 'is more popular' than US

Isn't the very essence of dictatorship a complete intolerence of any view that differs from your own and the attempted force conversion at the barrel of a gun of the "non-believers".

It seems to me that you are both the embodiment of the paranoid, intolerant dictators that you seek to over throw. Through your rhetoric and almost evangelical belief of the "Rightteousness" of your cause, you have become the dictator that your seek to remove. You are the enemy of democracy and freedom because you deny freedom to those who dissent from your view. And what is more insidious is that your drape you intolerence and bigotry in "patriotism".

I will leave you to it - and hope that sense returns some day soon and America can be productive rather than destructive in the World's affairs.
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Re: China 'is more popular' than US
Old 06-25-2005, 01:10 AM   #79
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Re: China 'is more popular' than US

And lastly, whether you like it or not, whether you believe it or not, prisoners ARE being tortured in the name of the US both directly and indirectly by the Government, CIA and their covert agents and operatives.
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Re: China 'is more popular' than US
Old 06-25-2005, 01:19 AM   #80
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Re: China 'is more popular' than US

Quote:
Originally Posted by Honkie
you deny freedom to those who dissent from your view.
How so, Buckwheat?
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