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Old 08-21-2007, 04:09 PM   #21
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No thanks! I am sticking to with my Subaru.
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Chery QQ demonstrates more than just the skill of modern cloning.
Old 08-21-2007, 04:46 PM   #22
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Chery QQ demonstrates more than just the skill of modern cloning.

Popular Science Link to "Cloning" article.

China's iClone - Popular Science

Pic:Popular Science: iClone - Photo Gallery
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Old 08-21-2007, 11:45 PM   #23
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Originally Posted by me_no_boss View Post
The Big3, which is not true anymore, has zero presence and no product or infrastucture to play in those markets.
Not true at all...GM, for one builds Buicks in China, SUVs in Russia, and has numerous facilities througout South America.
China Would Rather Have Buicks - October 4, 2004
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Old 08-22-2007, 04:14 AM   #24
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Originally Posted by maxer View Post
Popular Science Link to "Cloning" article.

China's iClone - Popular Science

Pic:Popular Science: iClone - Photo Gallery

Yup... they do not adhere to IP (Intellectual Property) laws (i.e., copyright, trademark, patents).

Some day they will get theirs. For now, we just have to put our good old American Ingenuity to work and figure out how turn the tables on them. I am fairly confident that we can do it... but they are not following the developed countries rules. It is a disruptor to the status quo.

When they steal IP, we lose. But I am confident that they will eventually scr3w themselves. Let's face it. We are largely product of the UK (i.e., colonies). We have been successful at coming out on top for several centuries.

China is on its way to becoming a democracy... but taking a more drawn out approach than the former Soviet Union.

I personally feel that we need to partner much more closely with a friendly nation like India. There is a huge market there. We probably need to enter into a trade agreement and beat the Chinese at their own game. That is not to say that we do not do business with the Chinese... but we should do it on our terms.

We need to keep in mind, that China is an adversary. We are a threat to their government and the political power structure.
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Irony
Old 08-22-2007, 09:02 AM   #25
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Irony

The irony, it seems, is that the original is a Chevy (Spark) product and the clone (Chery QQ) is a Chinese product outselling the original - and

Chrysler is making a deal with the Chinese cloner to push the (improved) Chinese product!!
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Old 08-22-2007, 09:19 AM   #26
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Not true at all...GM, for one builds Buicks in China, SUVs in Russia, and has numerous facilities througout South America.
China Would Rather Have Buicks - October 4, 2004
China is transitioning rapidly from developing to developed status. There is a more discretionary income than emerging third world countries.
The GM success in the Chinese market is with cars that were designed by Korean Daewoo.

Herein lies the problem, in order to compete they have to layoff in the US and outsource to low cost regions.
How is that good for American GM workers? Maybe good for the stock holders. But does the stock holder care if he made money with GM or with Baidu ?
The US auto companies are clearly late to the party in India, South America and Southeast Asia.
In US, it costs GM $2000 to $2500 per car for health care, retirement and UAW.
This is clearly unsustainable in developing markets where lowest cost cars are shooting for under $4000 and we are can see the writing on the wall. The cycle will renew when the Chinese must outsource to Nigeria to stay competitive.

GM, on the brink of bankruptcy, will require continued cost cutting and mergers/partners like Daewoo. The domestic market is flat and they're going have to reckon with production overcapacity issues.
The recent move by Chrysler to form a partnership with Chery to build small cars is really a bid for their own survival in the low end market.

This is gut-wrenching for folks in the industry and I am not marginalizing the impact.

But it will be Chrysler's job to make sure the cars meet our safety standards which means the design will be upgraded, accelerating Chery's learning curve in the US market. Everything is moving faster now.

The displaced UAW workers may vent their frustrations by smashing those cars like they did the Japanese cars last go around. Maybe people will smash Countrywide and Coldwell realtor offices for getting us in the pickle on the subprime credit mess as well.

Some may then argue a Chrysler made in a factory an ocean away is not really a Chrysler.
This is the morphing strategy for survival of the corporation entities, not necessarily that of the employees' careers.

I suppose we can boycott it or even enact legislation to fight it, but the world markets will just move forward.
US automakers are facing a tough time, I am glad I ridded my auto stocks.

We as a country have been on a borrow and spend binge party for years now.
From every level from Uncle Sam to Wall Street to your neighbors, borrow and spend is the game.

Who has been financing a big part of it? We buy their goods and the Chinese send our dollars back and lend it back in the form of treasuries.
It wasn't a problem when our houses were making us rich on paper, no?
Some of what we buy from the Chinese is things we don't need. But a lot are things that we need and it has kept inflation low for a long time.
Could we get $399 pc's with lcd monitors and printers if made in USA or W. Europe?
How much would the plasma TV or CD player cost or even your kids shoes cost if not made in China?
There was a saying in corporate procurement circles, "The China price", which mean the lowest price by which you can pressure your suppliers to match.

So the home equity is going up in smoke and stock market is shaky, we don't feel rich anymore.
If I lived foolishly and made reckless bets at Vegas, should I blame you for letting me.
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Old 08-22-2007, 11:49 AM   #27
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OMG, simply amazing. Would love to see where the engine ends up in a full front crash!!
On the bright side, Reynold's Wrap has a new customer
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Old 08-22-2007, 01:31 PM   #28
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American and European car manufacturers are in China via cooperative efforts with Chinese companies. They are busy teaching the Chinese how to design and build better cars. They are also teaching them design for US and European safety standards. This is not good. A lot of knowledge that took many years to obtain is just being given away.

GM builds more Buicks in China for the Chinese market than they build in US/Canada combined. The Buicks built in China are modifications of American model designs.
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Old 08-22-2007, 10:11 PM   #29
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From what I understand, Toyota makes 2007 Camrys in China now and a good deal of them have transmission problems and other quality issues.

My wife's '96 Camry still drives like new with over 120k miles...don't think I'll be getting her one of the new ones any time soon.
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Old 08-23-2007, 12:30 PM   #30
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No thanks! I am sticking to with my Subaru.
Subaru developed a hard-core following, their owners are loyal.
Their models are not so good to look at, although much improved over the years.

Attached is a peace offering, I have to attend to the ”rain gutter project”, autumn is almost here.
I’ve already wasted too much time looking at this Chery picture.
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