Join Early Retirement Today
Reply
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread Display Modes
Old 01-06-2015, 03:39 PM   #41
Recycles dryer sheets
 
Join Date: Jun 2014
Posts: 406
Quote:
Originally Posted by W2R View Post
Yes, and how often do stores actually LOOK closely at the signature on the back of one's card, and compared it with one's signature? Not often as far as I can tell.

I don't think the signature is any kind of security at all for us.
Apparently not at all IMO. I had my wallet stolen at the gym once, one of the cards had my picture on it....they only put $8K on it before the bank thought it might be fraudulent . I know people who instead of signing put see ID...no one asks

I am shocked that these "executives" somehow think that Americans are incapable of remembering a pin when the ROW is capable...
__________________

__________________
If money is the root of all evil I want to be a bad man
nuke_diver is offline   Reply With Quote
Join the #1 Early Retirement and Financial Independence Forum Today - It's Totally Free!

Are you planning to be financially independent as early as possible so you can live life on your own terms? Discuss successful investing strategies, asset allocation models, tax strategies and other related topics in our online forum community. Our members range from young folks just starting their journey to financial independence, military retirees and even multimillionaires. No matter where you fit in you'll find that Early-Retirement.org is a great community to join. Best of all it's totally FREE!

You are currently viewing our boards as a guest so you have limited access to our community. Please take the time to register and you will gain a lot of great new features including; the ability to participate in discussions, network with our members, see fewer ads, upload photographs, create a retirement blog, send private messages and so much, much more!

Old 01-06-2015, 03:46 PM   #42
Thinks s/he gets paid by the post
 
Join Date: Mar 2010
Location: Kerrville,Tx
Posts: 2,712
Quote:
Originally Posted by Lsbcal View Post
In Italy we plan on traveling by train and bus (no car). We're not going to do too many hops though because that is just too tiring. Current plan is train from Rome to Assisi, then to Orvieto, then to Sienna. Then bus to Florence. I'm guessing we will not have that big an issue with ticket lines.
Assuming you don't reside in the EU, why not buy an italy rail pass which works for 3 4 5 or 8 days in a month, and eliminate the whole issue of ticketing? Here is a link to more information on the pass Italy Rail Pass: Eurail Pass Prices - Book at Rail Europe

With the pass after you first validate, its no ticket lines at all.
__________________

__________________
meierlde is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-06-2015, 03:59 PM   #43
Recycles dryer sheets
 
Join Date: May 2012
Posts: 403
My PenFed Visa did not work in kiosks in France in 2014, and it was an annoying inconvenience. With humans, I always had to sign. Several times, I had to tell merchants that I had to sign, because they saw the chip in the card and assumed I had a "normal" card. They turned the hand-held device around for me to enter my PIN, but I was never prompted for my PIN. Instead, the device spit out a 2nd piece of paper for me to sign.
__________________
anethum is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-06-2015, 04:17 PM   #44
Moderator Emeritus
 
Join Date: Oct 2007
Posts: 4,929
Quote:
Originally Posted by Chuckanut View Post
According to this article in the WSJ, American banks will be giving us chip and signature cards this year. Apparently, they believe their customers will find chip and pin cards to inconvenient.

"U.S. bank executives said they are choosing the signature version so customers won’t be burdened at the checkout line to remember a new four-digit code."
Well, that and signature-based transactions get a larger slice of most retail transactions than the PIN based credit transaction. The PIN transaction goes through as an 'online' transaction, while the signature goes as an 'offline' transaction, even though it's through the same POS terminal! 'Offline' transactions get an interchange fee tacked on, usually a small part of the sale price, that the merchant has to pay. (Merchants are typically prohibited from offering a better price for PIN transactions, or charging extra for signature transactions by the card processing agreement.)

But, yeah, I'm sure it is really about customer convenience. While those wily Europeans can remember a 4 digit PIN, that burden shouldn't be born by USAians. That's just asking too much. The thought that they might make more money this way had probably never crossed the card companies minds.
__________________
M Paquette is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-06-2015, 04:42 PM   #45
Moderator
rodi's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2012
Location: San Diego
Posts: 8,807
Quote:
Originally Posted by meierlde View Post
Assuming you don't reside in the EU, why not buy an italy rail pass which works for 3 4 5 or 8 days in a month, and eliminate the whole issue of ticketing? Here is a link to more information on the pass Italy Rail Pass: Eurail Pass Prices - Book at Rail Europe

With the pass after you first validate, its no ticket lines at all.
I'd look hard at the prices before assuming the railpass is cheaper. It *is* more convenient - but when I priced fares (using trenitalia) I was able to find deals much better than the rail pass.
__________________
Retired June 2014. No longer an enginerd - now I'm just a nerd.
micro pensions 7%, rental income 18%
rodi is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-06-2015, 04:55 PM   #46
Give me a museum and I'll fill it. (Picasso)
Give me a forum ...
audreyh1's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2006
Location: Rio Grande Valley
Posts: 16,467
Right - rail passes are often not cheaper
__________________
Well, I thought I was retired. But it seems that now I'm working as a travel agent instead!
audreyh1 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-06-2015, 04:57 PM   #47
Give me a museum and I'll fill it. (Picasso)
Give me a forum ...
audreyh1's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2006
Location: Rio Grande Valley
Posts: 16,467
Quote:
Originally Posted by anethum View Post
My PenFed Visa did not work in kiosks in France in 2014, and it was an annoying inconvenience. With humans, I always had to sign. Several times, I had to tell merchants that I had to sign, because they saw the chip in the card and assumed I had a "normal" card. They turned the hand-held device around for me to enter my PIN, but I was never prompted for my PIN. Instead, the device spit out a 2nd piece of paper for me to sign.
I think the France kiosk issue probably was that your card was not issued in the Eurozone.
__________________
Well, I thought I was retired. But it seems that now I'm working as a travel agent instead!
audreyh1 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-06-2015, 05:29 PM   #48
Give me a museum and I'll fill it. (Picasso)
Give me a forum ...
Lsbcal's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2006
Location: west coast, hi there!
Posts: 5,677
Quote:
Originally Posted by meierlde View Post
Assuming you don't reside in the EU, why not buy an italy rail pass which works for 3 4 5 or 8 days in a month, and eliminate the whole issue of ticketing? Here is a link to more information on the pass Italy Rail Pass: Eurail Pass Prices - Book at Rail Europe

With the pass after you first validate, its no ticket lines at all.
Apparently it's only about 9 Euro to go from Rome to Assisi and tickets are easy to get at the time of travel. I think the Railpasses are good for people who are traveling long distances within a short time span ... just a guess though.

The last time we were in Italy we had a rail pass but that was 1972.
__________________
Lsbcal is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-06-2015, 05:38 PM   #49
Give me a museum and I'll fill it. (Picasso)
Give me a forum ...
audreyh1's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2006
Location: Rio Grande Valley
Posts: 16,467
Quote:
Originally Posted by Lsbcal View Post
Apparently it's only about 9 Euro to go from Rome to Assisi and tickets are easy to get at the time of travel. I think the Railpasses are good for people who are traveling long distances within a short time span ... just a guess though.

The last time we were in Italy we had a rail pass but that was 1972.
Yes, quite a few countries and regions have amazing deals for unlimited travel all day if you don't travel during early morning rush hour.
__________________
Well, I thought I was retired. But it seems that now I'm working as a travel agent instead!
audreyh1 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-06-2015, 06:35 PM   #50
Recycles dryer sheets
SteveNU's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2010
Posts: 313
Quote:
Originally Posted by sengsational View Post
It adds security by making sure the original card is present at the time of purchase, as opposed to the one the bad guy skimmed at the gas station, or the one copied by the bad guy at thr restaurant. The banks are too big to care to do anything that would be more efficient...that's going to take an upstart. You'll probably see chip and pin at some entity trying to break into banking (did anyone think "Walmart"?)
I'm not sure if that is true as our Chase Sapphire Chip & Signature card still has the magnetic strip on it and that is how it used most of the time here in the states. The only place that has the chip reader functional that I can recall is Walmart, everywhere else it works like a regular card.

We recently had a fraudulent transaction on our Chase Sapphire Chip & Signature card after traveling to Ireland a few months ago. They used it for an online purchase so the chip part didn't add any securty.

Our cards are actually made out of metal with the chip embedded in it. They provided a prepaid envelope to send back the cancelled cards to be destroyed. So I'm sure the issuers are also looking at the cost of providing and servicing those cards vs. the cost of the losses to fraud using the cheaper plastic cards without a chip.
__________________
SteveNU is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-06-2015, 07:36 PM   #51
Moderator
Alan's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2005
Location: Eee Bah Gum
Posts: 21,094
Quote:
Originally Posted by SteveNU View Post
I'm not sure if that is true as our Chase Sapphire Chip & Signature card still has the magnetic strip on it and that is how it used most of the time here in the states. The only place that has the chip reader functional that I can recall is Walmart, everywhere else it works like a regular card.

We recently had a fraudulent transaction on our Chase Sapphire Chip & Signature card after traveling to Ireland a few months ago. They used it for an online purchase so the chip part didn't add any securty.

Our cards are actually made out of metal with the chip embedded in it. They provided a prepaid envelope to send back the cancelled cards to be destroyed. So I'm sure the issuers are also looking at the cost of providing and servicing those cards vs. the cost of the losses to fraud using the cheaper plastic cards without a chip.
The magnetic strip is still a big vulnerability, as is handing it over to be taken out back where the numbers can be copied manually.

I have the security code on the back obliterated and kept elsewhere (actually I put it on another card in my wallet). Without that code it should be impossible to make on-line purchases (I did this after someone stole and used my card details to create an Amazon account and buy stuff in 2012)
__________________
Retired in Jan, 2010 at 55, moved to England in May 2016
Now it's adventure before dementia
Alan is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 01-06-2015, 07:36 PM   #52
Give me a museum and I'll fill it. (Picasso)
Give me a forum ...
haha's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2003
Location: Hooverville
Posts: 22,384
Quote:
Originally Posted by audreyh1 View Post
Yes, especially since US customers have been using debit cards with pins for over a decade.

The bank executives are lying. What the banks really want is to maintain the higher fees associated with processing signature transactions.
+1
__________________
"As a general rule, the more dangerous or inappropriate a conversation, the more interesting it is."-Scott Adams
haha is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-06-2015, 08:02 PM   #53
Thinks s/he gets paid by the post
 
Join Date: May 2008
Posts: 3,422
I believe transaction fees are a factor in the type of verification the US banks are preferring.

But they can set the priority so that it offers chip and pin on those kiosks and requires signature everywhere else.

That's how the Barclay's Arrival Plus MasterCard is set up. So most of the time, it's going to get signature processing.

What I would be interested in is a card which can support chip and PIN, have no FX fees and has no annual fees.

These chipped cards are going first on premium cards most of which carry annual fees.
__________________
explanade is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-06-2015, 08:05 PM   #54
Recycles dryer sheets
SteveNU's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2010
Posts: 313
Quote:
Originally Posted by Alan View Post
The magnetic strip is still a big vulnerability, as is handing it over to be taken out back where the numbers can be copied manually.

I have the security code on the back obliterated and kept elsewhere (actually I put it on another card in my wallet). Without that code it should be impossible to make on-line purchases (I did this after someone stole and used my card details to create an Amazon account and buy stuff in 2012)
I wonder if the security code is part of the data contained in the strip?

I do like your idea of hiding the security code though. It should make it that much harder for someone to swipe your info.
__________________
SteveNU is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-06-2015, 08:20 PM   #55
Give me a museum and I'll fill it. (Picasso)
Give me a forum ...
audreyh1's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2006
Location: Rio Grande Valley
Posts: 16,467
Quote:
Originally Posted by explanade View Post
I believe transaction fees are a factor in the type of verification the US banks are preferring.

But they can set the priority so that it offers chip and pin on those kiosks and requires signature everywhere else.

That's how the Barclay's Arrival Plus MasterCard is set up. So most of the time, it's going to get signature processing.

What I would be interested in is a card which can support chip and PIN, have no FX fees and has no annual fees.

These chipped cards are going first on premium cards most of which carry annual fees.
The PenFed cards - certain cards are chip and PIN, no annual fee, no foreign fee, if you have deposits with them. Their Cash Rewards VISA worked for me. Alan had trouble.

But I actually use my BofA Travel Rewards VISA (chip and signature, no fees) for most of my transactions overseas, as it gives me 1.5% rewards back. I just use the PenFed for 5% back on gas, and when I run into an automated kiosk overseas.
__________________
Well, I thought I was retired. But it seems that now I'm working as a travel agent instead!
audreyh1 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-06-2015, 08:42 PM   #56
Moderator
Alan's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2005
Location: Eee Bah Gum
Posts: 21,094
Quote:
Originally Posted by audreyh1 View Post
The PenFed cards - certain cards are chip and PIN, no annual fee, no foreign fee, if you have deposits with them. Their Cash Rewards VISA worked for me. Alan had trouble.

But I actually use my BofA Travel Rewards VISA for most of my transactions overseas, as it gives me 1.5% rewards back. I just use the PenFed for 5% back on gas, and when I run into an automated kiosk overseas.

My Penfed Platinum Rewards card is CHIP and Signature and has no foreign transaction fees. Rewards include Debit cash card and Amazon e-gift card which I generally claim on the points as we spend plenty on Amazon.

I compared rates while abroad this year and it really is market exchange rates, no extra fees. Apart from the lack of a PIN I am very pleased with it.
__________________
Retired in Jan, 2010 at 55, moved to England in May 2016
Now it's adventure before dementia
Alan is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 01-06-2015, 09:57 PM   #57
Give me a museum and I'll fill it. (Picasso)
Give me a forum ...
Lsbcal's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2006
Location: west coast, hi there!
Posts: 5,677
Alan, how did you remove the code? Did you scratch it off? Has any merchant questioned you about slightly defacing the card?
__________________
Lsbcal is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-07-2015, 07:50 AM   #58
Give me a museum and I'll fill it. (Picasso)
Give me a forum ...
 
Join Date: Apr 2013
Posts: 5,570
Quote:
Originally Posted by SteveNU View Post
I wonder if the security code is part of the data contained in the strip?

I do like your idea of hiding the security code though. It should make it that much harder for someone to swipe your info.
From what I read, yes.

Sent from my SAMSUNG-SGH-I337 using Early Retirement Forum mobile app
__________________
MRG is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-07-2015, 08:36 AM   #59
Full time employment: Posting here.
Jack_Pine's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2013
Posts: 834
Quote:
Originally Posted by Lsbcal View Post
Alan, how did you remove the code? Did you scratch it off? Has any merchant questioned you about slightly defacing the card?
Good question....................................
__________________
The Constitution. It's not just a good idea...it's the law.
Jack_Pine is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-07-2015, 09:30 AM   #60
Thinks s/he gets paid by the post
Helen's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2004
Location: Portland
Posts: 1,345
I just called PenFed and was told that all of their cards are now PIN and chip. I was also told that I could not change the PIN.
__________________

__________________
Helen is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply


Currently Active Users Viewing This Thread: 1 (0 members and 1 guests)
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are Off
Pingbacks are Off
Refbacks are Off


Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
Chip and PIN credit cards for Europe audreyh1 FIRE and Money 696 10-06-2017 12:24 PM
Any suggestions ... ( Chip and PIN Credit Card)? wanaberetiree Travel Information 1 04-17-2014 09:48 PM
moving chip to a newer phone modhatter Other topics 3 03-04-2012 06:14 PM
GM bankruptcy as auto bargaining chip? pedorrero FIRE and Money 1 11-22-2008 06:40 PM
PNY Memory Chip (camera) kaneohe Other topics 1 09-09-2008 07:50 PM

 

 
All times are GMT -6. The time now is 02:27 AM.
 
Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.8 Beta 1
Copyright ©2000 - 2017, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.