Chip and signature cards

[nuke_diver]

Quote:

Originally Posted by W2R Yes, and how often do stores actually LOOK closely at the signature on the back of one's card, and compared it with one's signature? Not often as far as I can tell. I don't think the signature is any kind of security at all for us.

Apparently not at all IMO. I had my wallet stolen at the gym once, one of the cards had my picture on it....they only put $8K on it before the bank thought it might be fraudulent . I know people who instead of signing put see ID...no one asks

I am shocked that these "executives" somehow think that Americans are incapable of remembering a pin when the ROW is capable...

[meierlde]

Quote:

Originally Posted by Lsbcal In Italy we plan on traveling by train and bus (no car). We're not going to do too many hops though because that is just too tiring. Current plan is train from Rome to Assisi, then to Orvieto, then to Sienna. Then bus to Florence. I'm guessing we will not have that big an issue with ticket lines.

Assuming you don't reside in the EU, why not buy an italy rail pass which works for 3 4 5 or 8 days in a month, and eliminate the whole issue of ticketing? Here is a link to more information on the pass Italy Rail Pass: Eurail Pass Prices - Book at Rail Europe

With the pass after you first validate, its no ticket lines at all.

[anethum]

My PenFed Visa did not work in kiosks in France in 2014, and it was an annoying inconvenience. With humans, I always had to sign. Several times, I had to tell merchants that I had to sign, because they saw the chip in the card and assumed I had a "normal" card. They turned the hand-held device around for me to enter my PIN, but I was never prompted for my PIN. Instead, the device spit out a 2nd piece of paper for me to sign.

[M Paquette]

Quote:

Originally Posted by Chuckanut According to this article in the WSJ, American banks will be giving us chip and signature cards this year. Apparently, they believe their customers will find chip and pin cards to inconvenient. "U.S. bank executives said they are choosing the signature version so customers won’t be burdened at the checkout line to remember a new four-digit code."

Well, that and signature-based transactions get a larger slice of most retail transactions than the PIN based credit transaction. The PIN transaction goes through as an 'online' transaction, while the signature goes as an 'offline' transaction, even though it's through the same POS terminal! 'Offline' transactions get an interchange fee tacked on, usually a small part of the sale price, that the merchant has to pay. (Merchants are typically prohibited from offering a better price for PIN transactions, or charging extra for signature transactions by the card processing agreement.)

But, yeah, I'm sure it is really about customer convenience. While those wily Europeans can remember a 4 digit PIN, that burden shouldn't be born by USAians. That's just asking too much. The thought that they might make more money this way had probably never crossed the card companies minds.

[rodi]

Quote:

Originally Posted by meierlde Assuming you don't reside in the EU, why not buy an italy rail pass which works for 3 4 5 or 8 days in a month, and eliminate the whole issue of ticketing? Here is a link to more information on the pass Italy Rail Pass: Eurail Pass Prices - Book at Rail Europe With the pass after you first validate, its no ticket lines at all.

I'd look hard at the prices before assuming the railpass is cheaper. It *is* more convenient - but when I priced fares (using trenitalia) I was able to find deals much better than the rail pass.

[audreyh1]

Right - rail passes are often not cheaper

[audreyh1]

Quote:

Originally Posted by anethum My PenFed Visa did not work in kiosks in France in 2014, and it was an annoying inconvenience. With humans, I always had to sign. Several times, I had to tell merchants that I had to sign, because they saw the chip in the card and assumed I had a "normal" card. They turned the hand-held device around for me to enter my PIN, but I was never prompted for my PIN. Instead, the device spit out a 2nd piece of paper for me to sign.

I think the France kiosk issue probably was that your card was not issued in the Eurozone.

[Lsbcal]

Quote:

Originally Posted by meierlde Assuming you don't reside in the EU, why not buy an italy rail pass which works for 3 4 5 or 8 days in a month, and eliminate the whole issue of ticketing? Here is a link to more information on the pass Italy Rail Pass: Eurail Pass Prices - Book at Rail Europe With the pass after you first validate, its no ticket lines at all.

Apparently it's only about 9 Euro to go from Rome to Assisi and tickets are easy to get at the time of travel. I think the Railpasses are good for people who are traveling long distances within a short time span ... just a guess though.

The last time we were in Italy we had a rail pass but that was 1972.

[audreyh1]

Quote:

Originally Posted by Lsbcal Apparently it's only about 9 Euro to go from Rome to Assisi and tickets are easy to get at the time of travel. I think the Railpasses are good for people who are traveling long distances within a short time span ... just a guess though. The last time we were in Italy we had a rail pass but that was 1972.

Yes, quite a few countries and regions have amazing deals for unlimited travel all day if you don't travel during early morning rush hour.

[SteveNU]

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Originally Posted by sengsational It adds security by making sure the original card is present at the time of purchase, as opposed to the one the bad guy skimmed at the gas station, or the one copied by the bad guy at thr restaurant. The banks are too big to care to do anything that would be more efficient...that's going to take an upstart. You'll probably see chip and pin at some entity trying to break into banking (did anyone think "Walmart"?)

I'm not sure if that is true as our Chase Sapphire Chip & Signature card still has the magnetic strip on it and that is how it used most of the time here in the states. The only place that has the chip reader functional that I can recall is Walmart, everywhere else it works like a regular card.

We recently had a fraudulent transaction on our Chase Sapphire Chip & Signature card after traveling to Ireland a few months ago. They used it for an online purchase so the chip part didn't add any securty.

Our cards are actually made out of metal with the chip embedded in it. They provided a prepaid envelope to send back the cancelled cards to be destroyed. So I'm sure the issuers are also looking at the cost of providing and servicing those cards vs. the cost of the losses to fraud using the cheaper plastic cards without a chip.

[Alan]

Quote:

Originally Posted by SteveNU I'm not sure if that is true as our Chase Sapphire Chip & Signature card still has the magnetic strip on it and that is how it used most of the time here in the states. The only place that has the chip reader functional that I can recall is Walmart, everywhere else it works like a regular card. We recently had a fraudulent transaction on our Chase Sapphire Chip & Signature card after traveling to Ireland a few months ago. They used it for an online purchase so the chip part didn't add any securty. Our cards are actually made out of metal with the chip embedded in it. They provided a prepaid envelope to send back the cancelled cards to be destroyed. So I'm sure the issuers are also looking at the cost of providing and servicing those cards vs. the cost of the losses to fraud using the cheaper plastic cards without a chip.

The magnetic strip is still a big vulnerability, as is handing it over to be taken out back where the numbers can be copied manually.

I have the security code on the back obliterated and kept elsewhere (actually I put it on another card in my wallet). Without that code it should be impossible to make on-line purchases (I did this after someone stole and used my card details to create an Amazon account and buy stuff in 2012)

[haha]

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Originally Posted by audreyh1 Yes, especially since US customers have been using debit cards with pins for over a decade. The bank executives are lying. What the banks really want is to maintain the higher fees associated with processing signature transactions.

+1

[explanade]

I believe transaction fees are a factor in the type of verification the US banks are preferring.

But they can set the priority so that it offers chip and pin on those kiosks and requires signature everywhere else.

That's how the Barclay's Arrival Plus MasterCard is set up. So most of the time, it's going to get signature processing.

What I would be interested in is a card which can support chip and PIN, have no FX fees and has no annual fees.

These chipped cards are going first on premium cards most of which carry annual fees.

[SteveNU]

Quote:

Originally Posted by Alan The magnetic strip is still a big vulnerability, as is handing it over to be taken out back where the numbers can be copied manually. I have the security code on the back obliterated and kept elsewhere (actually I put it on another card in my wallet). Without that code it should be impossible to make on-line purchases (I did this after someone stole and used my card details to create an Amazon account and buy stuff in 2012)

I wonder if the security code is part of the data contained in the strip?

I do like your idea of hiding the security code though. It should make it that much harder for someone to swipe your info.

[audreyh1]

Quote:

Originally Posted by explanade I believe transaction fees are a factor in the type of verification the US banks are preferring. But they can set the priority so that it offers chip and pin on those kiosks and requires signature everywhere else. That's how the Barclay's Arrival Plus MasterCard is set up. So most of the time, it's going to get signature processing. What I would be interested in is a card which can support chip and PIN, have no FX fees and has no annual fees. These chipped cards are going first on premium cards most of which carry annual fees.

The PenFed cards - certain cards are chip and PIN, no annual fee, no foreign fee, if you have deposits with them. Their Cash Rewards VISA worked for me. Alan had trouble.

But I actually use my BofA Travel Rewards VISA (chip and signature, no fees) for most of my transactions overseas, as it gives me 1.5% rewards back. I just use the PenFed for 5% back on gas, and when I run into an automated kiosk overseas.

[Alan]

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Originally Posted by audreyh1 The PenFed cards - certain cards are chip and PIN, no annual fee, no foreign fee, if you have deposits with them. Their Cash Rewards VISA worked for me. Alan had trouble. But I actually use my BofA Travel Rewards VISA for most of my transactions overseas, as it gives me 1.5% rewards back. I just use the PenFed for 5% back on gas, and when I run into an automated kiosk overseas.

My Penfed Platinum Rewards card is CHIP and Signature and has no foreign transaction fees. Rewards include Debit cash card and Amazon e-gift card which I generally claim on the points as we spend plenty on Amazon.

I compared rates while abroad this year and it really is market exchange rates, no extra fees. Apart from the lack of a PIN I am very pleased with it.

[Lsbcal]

Alan, how did you remove the code? Did you scratch it off? Has any merchant questioned you about slightly defacing the card?

[MRG]

Quote:

Originally Posted by SteveNU I wonder if the security code is part of the data contained in the strip? I do like your idea of hiding the security code though. It should make it that much harder for someone to swipe your info.

From what I read, yes.

Sent from my SAMSUNG-SGH-I337 using Early Retirement Forum mobile app

[Jack_Pine]

Quote:

Originally Posted by Lsbcal Alan, how did you remove the code? Did you scratch it off? Has any merchant questioned you about slightly defacing the card?

Good question....................................

[Helen]

I just called PenFed and was told that all of their cards are now PIN and chip. I was also told that I could not change the PIN.