Chip and signature cards

[Chuckanut]

According to this article in the WSJ, American banks will be giving us chip and signature cards this year. Apparently, they believe their customers will find chip and pin cards to inconvenient.

"U.S. bank executives said they are choosing the signature version so customers won’t be burdened at the checkout line to remember a new four-digit code."

Why New Credit Cards May Fall Short on Fraud Control - WSJ

Sorry if the article is behind a pay wall.


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[Meadbh]

I think US banks are underestimating the intellectual capacity of the American public. It's really not that difficult to remember a PIN.

 

[Sunset]

Since Americans don't like using the dollar coin, I'm not surprised by the thought they will find the chip and pin a pain.
Getting rid of the $1 and $2 and the 1 cent makes so much sense, yet nobody wants to do it in the USA.

In Canada, they use the dollar coin and $2 coin got rid of the 1 cent, and they use chip and pin Credit cards.

When you stick in the Credit Card, it locks in (at gas stations) and then you have to do the pin and make other selections, then it unlocks the card and allows you to remove it. Then you pump gas.

When you buy something at a store, you don't swipe, you stick in the correct end of the card, wait for it to ask for pin, enter pin, wait for it to say "valid" or "wrong pin" , then if "valid" you can take out the card.

So yeah, it is a pain to use, because its more than remembering a pin.

 

[W2R]

Unbelievable!

We remember PINs all the time for other purposes. It isn't THAT tough.

 

[audreyh1]

I think US banks are underestimating the intellectual capacity of the American public. It's really not that difficult to remember a PIN.

Yes, especially since US customers have been using debit cards with pins for over a decade.

The bank executives are lying. What the banks really want is to maintain the higher fees associated with processing signature transactions.

 

[Midpack]

And many who can't remember a PIN will write it on their card.

 

[braumeister]

That story was just sad, but not too surprising.
However, some (if not most?) chip & sign cards will also work as traditional chip & PIN cards in some situations. I had both a Visa and a MasterCard with me in Europe last year, and both worked as chip & PIN when I needed them to (train ticket kiosks, etc.), although the Visa defaulted to chip & sign at most restaurants.

 

[donheff]

The whole mess is irritating. I wanted a chip and pin for use in machines other than ATMs overseas - for example, some bike sharing systems require C&P cards. All I could get from my banks are chip and signature. They ought to at least offer a choice.

 

[gauss]

No bank wants to be the first to impose Chip and Pin when their competitors are offering Chip and Signature due to the perceived risk of loss of market share.

NPR aired a news story on Monday (1/5).

-gauss

 

[Jack_Pine]

My Chase card is chip and signature and I don't see what it adds to security. Now if is was chip and pin, I would totally get that.

Anyone can steal my card and forge my sig. The other way they would have to know my pin.

 

[savory]

The WSJ article suggests that there are no cards for online purchase safety. But there are. Currently, I use the BOA ShopSafe system. But more convenient ones exist where a computer chip is included on the credit card and the pin is dynamic fir online purchases.
NagraID Security But, if our banks do not trust us with a pin, they will not invest in this next generation of technology unless we demand it.

 

[sengsational]

My Chase card is chip and signature and I don't see what it adds to security. Now if is was chip and pin, I would totally get that.

Anyone can steal my card and forge my sig. The other way they would have to know my pin.

It adds security by making sure the original card is present at the time of purchase, as opposed to the one the bad guy skimmed at the gas station, or the one copied by the bad guy at thr restaurant. The banks are too big to care to do anything that would be more efficient...that's going to take an upstart. You'll probably see chip and pin at some entity trying to break into banking (did anyone think "Walmart"?)

 

[Jack_Pine]

It adds security by making sure the original card is present at the time of purchase, as opposed to the one the bad guy skimmed at the gas station, or the one copied by the bad guy at thr restaurant. The banks are too big to care to do anything that would be more efficient...that's going to take an upstart. You'll probably see chip and pin at some entity trying to break into banking (did anyone think "Walmart"?)

Good point. Actually Walmart is the only place that has made me use the chip feature of the card so far.

 

[W2R]

Anyone can steal my card and forge my sig. The other way they would have to know my pin.

Yes, and how often do stores actually LOOK closely at the signature on the back of one's card, and compared it with one's signature? Not often as far as I can tell.

I don't think the signature is any kind of security at all for us.

 

[audreyh1]

That story was just sad, but not too surprising.
However, some (if not most?) chip & sign cards will also work as traditional chip & PIN cards in some situations. I had both a Visa and a MasterCard with me in Europe last year, and both worked as chip & PIN when I needed them to (train ticket kiosks, etc.), although the Visa defaulted to chip & sign at most restaurants.

A chip and signature card won't work this way. You really have to get a card that is explicitly a chip and PIN card. Unfortunately, the optional PIN available for the signature card to is only for cash advances.

 

[audreyh1]

No bank wants to be the first to impose Chip and Pin when their competitors are offering Chip and Signature due to the perceived risk of loss of market share.

NPR aired a news story on Monday (1/5).

-gauss

I don't believe this. Especially since the US issued chip and PIN cards default to signature priority. You don't even know the difference until you try to use it in an automated kiosk.

So, IMO, the above line about perceived risk of loss of market share is just an excuse to mask the real issue - fear of lowering of transaction fees.

There are US issuers. I got one last year, and a lot of people have jumped through hoops to get a true chip and PIN card for use overseas. The US media does NOT understand the whole story.

 

[Fermion]

I have signed all of my CC transactions with Zorro and have never been questioned once.

 

[mpeirce]

The WSJ article suggests that there are no cards for online purchase safety. But there are. Currently, I use the BOA ShopSafe system.

I also use BofA Shopsafe. It's a minor inconvenience, but I really like the one use numbers it hands out. I use it for all online shopping, except Amazon. I probably should use it with them too, but they make it so darn convenient to just keep a cc on file and use that.

I truly hope we move from the chip and signature/pin card phase and quickly adopt ApplePay and Google Wallet like solutions. My wife has an iPhone 6 and uses ApplePay at Meijer and a few other places. It's very convenient and very secure. I hope more stores support it by the time I get a new iPhone next fall.

So far the Apple biometrics (finger print sensor) has held up pretty well.

 

[MRG]

Good point. Actually Walmart is the only place that has made me use the chip feature of the card so far.

Walmart was the first around here. Now some area grocery stores have dual readers too.

My Fidelity AMEX has been replaced 3 times in the last year(2 were chip and sign). The last replacement, after the Home Depot breach, was no chip, just swipe and sign. Maybe they couldn't make enough replacements.

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[rodi]

Audrey and Braumeister - who issued your chip and pin (that defaults to chip and signature)...

I'm heading to Europe this summer and want to make sure I have options.

I think I recall from an older thread that one of them was Penfed... is that right? How well did it work at kiosks. (We're doing a lot of train travel so kiosk use would be nice)

 

[braumeister]

A chip and signature card won't work this way. You really have to get a card that is explicitly a chip and PIN card. Unfortunately, the optional PIN available for the signature card to is only for cash advances.

This whole thing can be very confusing.
I specifically asked for chip & PIN cards, and I got two of them about a year agne is a Visa from Andrews FCU, the other is a MasterCard from USAA FSB. Sometimes (in Canada, Iceland, and Belgium) I could use them the same way the furriners do -- stick the card in, enter the PIN, remove the card when approved.
Other times, I tried to do the same, but the machine (usually carried to the table by a server) spit out a paper receipt for me to sign.

So it all depends.

 

[sengsational]

Yes, and how often do stores actually LOOK closely at the signature on the back of one's card, and compared it with one's signature? Not often as far as I can tell.

I don't think the signature is any kind of security at all for us.

In the UK, the machines are set up to ask the human operator to check the signature. And 100% of the time they actually checked it. It is sort of silly, though, because if I had possession of a stolen card, I would practice forging before I used it, and although all of the humans that did a signature transaction checked the signature, they all are not handwriting analysts.

The UK parking machines where there is no human, the card still works, but there may be a threshold under which a signature validation is not required.

 

[audreyh1]

Audrey and Braumeister - who issued your chip and pin (that defaults to chip and signature)...

I'm heading to Europe this summer and want to make sure I have options.

I think I recall from an older thread that one of them was Penfed... is that right? How well did it work at kiosks. (We're doing a lot of train travel so kiosk use would be nice)

The PenFed Cash Rewards VISA.

 

[Chuckanut]

I have a card that was supposed to be chip and signature/pin. But, in Europe when I used it in automated machines to buy bus tickets and other services, it never worked. Fortunately, there was always a machine nearby that would take Euro cash and coins.

What a mess!

 

[audreyh1]

This whole thing can be very confusing.
I specifically asked for chip & PIN cards, and I got two of them about a year agne is a Visa from Andrews FCU, the other is a MasterCard from USAA FSB. Sometimes (in Canada, Iceland, and Belgium) I could use them the same way the furriners do -- stick the card in, enter the PIN, remove the card when approved.
Other times, I tried to do the same, but the machine (usually carried to the table by a server) spit out a paper receipt for me to sign.

So it all depends.

Both of those are chip and PIN cards. Different from chip and signature, although they look just the same. The former will prompt you for a PIN at an automated kiosk (if and only if the kiosk company accepts foreign credit cards). The latter simply won't work.

If you are not at an automated kiosk, the U.S. issued chip and PIN cards ask for signature instead of pin. That's how they are configured by the US issuers. It's called signature priority.