Cigarette smell from our semi-detached neighbor is seeping in

[tmm99]

Sorry for such a long post, but basically, the problem is that the cigarette smell is coming into our home from our semi-detached neighbor, and we want that to stop without causing too much friction. How can we make that happen?

We own/live in a semi-detached house in Ontario, Canada. A semi-detached house is a single family dwelling house built as one of a pair that share one common wall. Our common wall is a concrete block wall, and I believe it’s called cinder-block firewall or something like that, and it goes all the way up to the roof – it’s a hard wall, and there’s no drywall or insulation on top of it – the wall is simply painted over. Against this wall, we have our living room and dining room area, separated by our pantry room. Air vents, pipes, washer/dryer vents, water lines, electric wiring, cabling, etc, etc… Nothing is shared between the units, just the firewall is shared.

The owner of the semi-detached home on the other side moved out and rented his side to tenants who are cigarette smokers. I saw them smoking in their backyard, and that’s how I know. Anyway, I detected no smell of cigarettes in our house all summer, and in October, inside our house was all of a sudden full of cigarette smell. We thought maybe the air current was pushing their smoke from outside into our home, so we waited a few days, but no change. In the meantime, we bought two inexpensive air purifiers to mitigate this problem, but that didn’t seem to help much if at all. After a couple of more days of the smell seeping in, we concluded that they were smoking inside their house.

We realize that they have rights to do whatever they want in their rented house, but we decided to talk to the owner who is their landlord. We offered to buy an air purifier and have the owner give it to them (a more expensive one than the ones I tried, and I was hoping if they breathed out the smoke into an air purifier, and if the air purifier could handle it well enough, that the smell wouldn’t even reach our house.). Anyway, the owner said that they were non-smokers. He evidently asked them if they were smokers when he interviewed them. (The way he talked about it made me think that he didn’t have this in writing.) I told him I saw an ashtray outside. Currently, there’s a huge bucket full of cig butts, and several more lying about on their patio, and I am not sure if they ever empty the bucket or they do but only seldom? Anyway, at the time we talked to the landlord, there was just one big ashtray on their patio. The owner said he would speak to his wife and get back to us, but he never got back to us. Although he never got back to us, the smoke smell miraculously stopped the day after our conversation with the owner. I let the owner know via email that the smoke smell had stopped. (He never replied. We used to talk often as casual neighbors, but anyway…) And that was back in October, and I detected no smell at all since then, until the end of December. We had some good few days after that and then, since January 1st, the smell has been coming in every day.

In the meantime, we taped up the frame of our sliding door that leads to our backyard that is close to where those tenants smoke on their side of the backyard in order to prevent air leaks— no help. We shielded our furnace intake pipe outside on the side where these tenants live, thinking they may be smoking in front of their house as well — no help. We also checked our attic today, thinking that the common wall has settled (our house was built in the 80’s) and there may be a gap around the top and the air may be escaping through it, or the smoky air may be coming through soffits/air vents. Zero cigarette smell in the attic. My feeling was, if someone was to sneak and smoke cigarettes inside their house, they would most likely smoke in their bathroom with a fan on, and the smell may be leaking from there into their attic and then into ours, but well, it’s not leaking into our attic. Another place to smoke would be under their range hood with its fan on. I am not sure where the kitchen is on their side and if the air is vented out or if it’s a charcoal filter fan that leads the smoke to nowhere, which may trap more smoke inside their house.

We sent an email to the owner/landlord again, but I am not sure if he will ever respond to us or do anything. (He kind of insinuated last time that there wasn’t much I could do legally, although not in these words exactly.) All I can do is try to appeal to his conscience and have him cooperate with us somehow to reach some kind of solution (He has children and I’m sure he would be horrified if we were smokers moving into the other side of their wall and stinking up their home) – I believe we do have rights to enjoy our own home without worrying about second-hand-smoke, but anyway, we want to do whatever we can ourselves to alleviate this problem. If we can prevent the smoke from coming in, we won’t need to rely on other people to help us.

Has anybody dealt with this kind of situation? Or know any effective ways to resolve it? Any suggestions? Ideas?

I read that having positive air pressure in our home will drive our air into their dwelling instead of the other way around, but I am not sure how we can effectively raise our air pressure in our home enough, especially in the winter time when the outdoor air is quite cold. We are lowering our room temp and crack one window slightly to see if they will help.

What I don’t understand is I’ve never detected any food smell coming from the adjoining neighbor’s house before or after the new tenants moved in. That would make you think that nothing is really seeping through within the housing unit and that the smoke is coming from the outside, right? But we didn’t detect any smoke smell at all for about three months and I’m pretty sure they were smoking during those three months in their backyard, so that makes me think that the smoke smell isn’t coming from the outside into our home. I’m totally perplexed as to where the smoke smell is coming from and without knowing that, it’s hard to put together a good action plan.

I’m just trying to put everything I can think of out here, for the detective types on this forum.

We have no intention of talking to the landlord’s tenants in person. We really like our house otherwise, and we have no plans to move, so I would appreciate it if you could share your thoughts on how to find the source of the smoke problem and to mitigate the smoke problem.


Thank you for all your help!

 

[brucethebroker]

Consider selling. Extreme, yes, but otherwise you might have to live with the smoke smell.

IMO, after cleaning numerous homes abused by smokers as a young ee of a cleaning co., few things are as hard to remove as cigarette smoke smell. But that is only part of your problem presently.

We owned a similar home (semi-detached) for about 6 years and used it as a rental. It was located on a street with similar homes which were nicely kept up. It was a foreclosure, and seemed to be headed for great long term appreciation. Until our attached neighbor sold his unit to his son. Son let the grass grow until the city threatened to sue, the cut it, and let it grow again. Never painted his side of the wood trim (vinyl siding). Placed his garbage cans in front of the garage doors, and allowed them to overflow between pickups. Kept the insurance pay out after a hail storm and never replaced his roof, or the missing shingles. etc. (And there was no HOA to force the owner to keep up his place-not that an HOA would help in your case, anyway.)

We reached out by inviting the kid to share the cost of trim painting and roof replacement (finally just did our 1/2 of the building-not a pretty combination). We decided to get out, and sold our unit at a discount, just to walk away.

When you own such a home, you are joined at the hip with your common neighbor. Your final solution is to move and find a replacement home with a small yard between you and the neighbors.

Sorry I don't have a better solution. Good luck.

 

[tmm99]

Consider selling. Extreme, yes, but otherwise you might have to live with the smoke smell.

IMO, after cleaning numerous homes abused by smokers as a young ee of a cleaning co., few things are as hard to remove as cigarette smoke smell. But that is only part of your problem presently.

We owned a similar home (semi-detached) for about 6 years and used it as a rental. It was located on a street with similar homes which were nicely kept up. It was a foreclosure, and seemed to be headed for great long term appreciation. Until our attached neighbor sold his unit to his son. Son let the grass grow until the city threatened to sue, the cut it, and let it grow again. Never painted his side of the wood trim (vinyl siding). Placed his garbage cans in front of the garage doors, and allowed them to overflow between pickups. Kept the insurance pay out after a hail storm and never replaced his roof, or the missing shingles. etc. (And there was no HOA to force the owner to keep up his place-not that an HOA would help in your case, anyway.)

We reached out by inviting the kid to share the cost of trim painting and roof replacement (finally just did our 1/2 of the building-not a pretty combination). We decided to get out, and sold our unit at a discount, just to walk away.

When you own such a home, you are joined at the hip with your common neighbor. Your final solution is to move and find a replacement home with a small yard between you and the neighbors.

Sorry I don't have a better solution. Good luck.

Like I said in my post, we have no plans to sell, and my post isn't about that, but to mitigate the current issue, but thank you for sharing your thoughts.

 

[Sunset]

Because you haven't smelled cooking, I'm inclined to think it is from outside.
I doubt they smoke in the bathroom more than the rest of the house, since they don't seemed worried the landlord will know by all the butts all over.

How did you shield your furnace intake ? I don't see how that could be done from a cloud of smoke.

I'd pay attention to the wind/breeze direction in general and near where the property line is that they smoke front and back, perhaps you are smelling it more on certain wind direction days.

Could you be getting a smell from their overflowing bucket of butts ? Those usually smell nasty , but different than fresh smoke.

 

[jazz4cash]

That’s interesting. Sorry you are having this problem. The whole time you were describing the issue, I was thinking of the positive air pressure solution. I still think maybe the firewall has developed an issue allowing the Oder to be transmitted. That might mean it is less functional also. I’m familiar with semi-detached (aka duplex) homes, but are you saying the cinderblock firewall is exposed with no drywall covering it? I’ve never seen that.

 

[Jerry1]

Sorry I don't have a good answer, but I certainly feel for you and hope for the best. I grew up in a smoking house, so it doesn't bother me but it would drive DW crazy and therefore, it would drive me crazy by default. I think I would stay on the owner in the hope that if he asked about smoking, he may actually care and not want people smoking in his house. As brucethebroker pointed out, cleaning a property after smoking is terrible. You may also want to contact a insulation company, one of the ones that do an energy analysis. By using infrared or a pressure test, maybe they can find where the infiltration is coming from. If you haven't see it, they bring a fan and put it in your door and pull air into the house and test for leaks with a smoke machine. The fan creates the positive pressure you mentioned and then you can see where the smoke from the machine will leak out of the house. Conversely, that is likely where the cigarette smoke would be entering the house.

Problem is, if you now have renters and the owner doesn't care, then it probably is time to sell. Unfortunate, but probably your best course of action before things get worse. No telling what the next set of renters will be doing, or not doing on their side. Imagine a situation where they're not cleaning and you get insect or rodent infestation. Sorry.

 

[tmm99]

Because you haven't smelled cooking, I'm inclined to think it is from outside.
I doubt they smoke in the bathroom more than the rest of the house, since they don't seemed worried the landlord will know by all the butts all over.

How did you shield your furnace intake ? I don't see how that could be done from a cloud of smoke.

I'd pay attention to the wind/breeze direction in general and near where the property line is that they smoke front and back, perhaps you are smelling it more on certain wind direction days.

Could you be getting a smell from their overflowing bucket of butts ? Those usually smell nasty , but different than fresh smoke.

Sometimes the smell is a stale smell which makes me think it's coming from the *wet* butts in the bucket. Other times, it's just cig smell like you smell when you pass someone smoking in front of stores, etc. I would definitely put this on the list of things to talk to the owner about. There is no reason for these smelly things to be sitting there. Thank you.

What DH did was make a 90-degree angle wooden pieces and put that on one side of the intake pipe close to their house. We didn't know if it was a good idea to put anything close to the intake pipe at all, but we did it anyway. The thing is, we looked today, and we don't see any cig butts in front of their house at all, so I think what they do is just light up and get in their car, and if that's the case, it's a very short time.

 

[Sunset]

I think it's pretty extreme to sell for this reason, after all the renters may move out next year.

 

[tmm99]

That’s interesting. Sorry you are having this problem. The whole time you were describing the issue, I was thinking of the positive air pressure solution. I still think maybe the firewall has developed an issue allowing the Oder to be transmitted. That might mean it is less functional also. I’m familiar with semi-detached (aka duplex) homes, but are you saying the cinderblock firewall is exposed with no drywall covering it? I’ve never seen that.

Oh really? This is our first semi-detached, so I just assumed this was normal? Anyway, right, no drywall or anything - it's just an exposed, painted firewall, but unless you try to hang a picture, you can't tell. If the firewall is an issue, we can add something over it to block the smell, I imagine? The thing is there is a pantry room against the same block too, and I detect no cig smell in there, but the pantry room has no vents - no air coming in from anywhere.

 

[tmm99]

Sorry I don't have a good answer, but I certainly feel for you and hope for the best. I grew up in a smoking house, so it doesn't bother me but it would drive DW crazy and therefore, it would drive me crazy by default. I think I would stay on the owner in the hope that if he asked about smoking, he may actually care and not want people smoking in his house. As brucethebroker pointed out, cleaning a property after smoking is terrible. You may also want to contact a insulation company, one of the ones that do an energy analysis. By using infrared or a pressure test, maybe they can find where the infiltration is coming from. If you haven't see it, they bring a fan and put it in your door and pull air into the house and test for leaks with a smoke machine. The fan creates the positive pressure you mentioned and then you can see where the smoke from the machine will leak out of the house. Conversely, that is likely where the cigarette smoke would be entering the house.

Problem is, if you now have renters and the owner doesn't care, then it probably is time to sell. Unfortunate, but probably your best course of action before things get worse. No telling what the next set of renters will be doing, or not doing on their side. Imagine a situation where they're not cleaning and you get insect or rodent infestation. Sorry.

We already did the energy test with the big fan, etc, and the only area identified was the sliding door I mentioned that I taped up. I may talk to them and see if they can figure out where the smoke may be coming from. Thanks.

As for the house, as I said, we have no plans to move. Of course, the best action is to eliminate the cause of the problem (the tenant) or you remove yourself from the problem, but neither is our option. Detached homes are very expensive here (about 1.5 hours away from Toronto).

 

[brucethebroker]

Like I said in my post, we have no plans to sell, and my post isn't about that, but to mitigate the current issue, but thank you for sharing your thoughts.

The point is that you are now living next door to a rental, with a landlord who is shrugging off your concerns. You have no control over what is going on next door now, or with the next renter. Barking dog? Rats/roaches? Loud music? 5 adults, with 5 autos living in a home with a tiny driveway?

You might be OK with this, but many reading your post will not. My reply was to bring up the basic problem with such housing so that others might be aware when looking at a similar home to buy.

 

[Sunset]

Oh really? This is our first semi-detached, so I just assumed this was normal? Anyway, right, no drywall or anything - it's just an exposed, painted firewall, but unless you try to hang a picture, you can't tell. If the firewall is an issue, we can add something over it to block the smell, I imagine? The thing is there is a pantry room against the same block too, and I detect no cig smell in there, but the pantry room has no vents - no air coming in from anywhere.

It is common in the basement (underground) in Canada to have the block wall show if the basement is unfinished. But not on the ground or higher levels.

Are there any pipes that go between the units in the basement, do you have a basement ?

 

[tmm99]

It is common in the basement (underground) in Canada to have the block wall show if the basement is unfinished. But not on the ground or higher levels.

Are there any pipes that go between the units in the basement, do you have a basement ?

We do have a basement and the block firewall goes all the way down to the basement (exposed like upstairs but with no paint on top) Nothing (pipes or otherwise) is shared except for the wall.

 

[tmm99]

By the way Sunset, I thought about the wind directions too, but what are the chances that the wind direction is just so that the cig smell does not travel to us for 3 months straight? And all of a sudden, hitting us 7 days in a row? I wonder if I should get something that shows which way the wind is traveling?

It is still quite possible in my mind that the smoke is coming from the outside though. I'm actually hoping that it's coming from the outside because I figure it would be easier to mitigate the problem...

 

[Sunset]

A 12'' thread with a ping pong ball glued to it would blow in a light breeze indicating the direction if you have something to hang it from.
If anybody asked, you could say it stops birds from flying into the window.

The floor joists in the basement when you look up, are they extending from the duplex side to the other side, if so they may be embedded into the block wall (or a steel beam could be), and is there any chance if the neighbors are smoking in the basement that it comes in that way?

 

[njhowie]

Get a decent air filter. Hotels and cruise lines use them all the time and they do wonders.

https://www.amazon.com/s/ref=nb_sb_noss_1?url=search-alias=aps&field-keywords=hepa+air+filter

 

[MRG]

By the way Sunset, I thought about the wind directions too, but what are the chances that the wind direction is just so that the cig smell does not travel to us for 3 months straight? And all of a sudden, hitting us 7 days in a row? I wonder if I should get something that shows which way the wind is traveling?

It is still quite possible in my mind that the smoke is coming from the outside though. I'm actually hoping that it's coming from the outside because I figure it would be easier to mitigate the problem...

It's cold and they're tired of going outside. Starting Jan 1 most smoking is done inside.

I know there's a product called kilz that's good for waterproofing concrete or block walls. May help for smells?

My empathy, as an ex-smoker there's nothing more disgusting than cigarette smell.

 

[jazz4cash]

It is common in the basement (underground) in Canada to have the block wall show if the basement is unfinished. But not on the ground or higher levels.

Are there any pipes that go between the units in the basement, do you have a basement ?

This is my experience also with semi-detached homes here in the US (east coast and midwest)

 

[jazz4cash]

Oh really? This is our first semi-detached, so I just assumed this was normal? Anyway, right, no drywall or anything - it's just an exposed, painted firewall, but unless you try to hang a picture, you can't tell. If the firewall is an issue, we can add something over it to block the smell, I imagine? The thing is there is a pantry room against the same block too, and I detect no cig smell in there, but the pantry room has no vents - no air coming in from anywhere.

If it's cinderblock and not poured concrete it is very porous (moisture and air). I wonder if covering that wall with drywall and/or sealing it with a vapor barrier (plastic sheeting or paint) might help. That would be more effort than many of the other ideas being tossed about.

 

[JoeWras]

Things to consider:
- Caulk anything that may be set into that common wall (such as floor joists)
- Caulk any cracks in that common wall
- Does your furnace have fresh air intake? Many newer do, if so, you may be SOL if they outside smoking near it.
- They may have just changed locations outside with the cold weather and it is finding a place to come in, maybe a bad window seal.
- I'm guessing the heating has changed the pressure differential too, so air is finding a new way to come in

I know these kind of homes are common in Toronto. Too bad, they just cause more problems than they solve, except for builder profit, of course. In Chicago, houses built in the 20s to 60s typically had two walls and an air gap of maybe only 2". This helps avoid this kind of thing, that damn common wall.

Urban living is all the rage these days, but bugs and smells kind of got me done with it. But I understand you cannot move and really get it that it is affordable. So, do your best to find the place of intrusion. Good luck!

One more thing, at least you don't have it as bad as this gal in her semi-detached home in Toronto (link below). Yikes! If you view the video, there is some detail on how that common wall works. Problem with viewing the video is it is kind of scary.

https://nationalpost.com/news/toron...is-is-the-worst-reno-story-you-will-ever-hear

Also, a screenshot from the story showing how the common wall can be leaky...

 

[Ronstar]

I would start by painting the common wall with the heavy duty oil base kilz and a coat of regular paint. Caulk any cracks in the wall. It could be that your furnace system is such that the returns are not pulling as much air as the output requires. Then the system pulls the air from other places. So your system could be pulling air from their side of the wall into your side.

 

[JoeWras]

I would start by painting the common wall with the heavy duty oil base kilz and a coat of regular paint. Caulk any cracks in the wall. It could be that your furnace system is such that the returns are not pulling as much air as the output requires. Then the system pulls the air from other places. So your system could be pulling air from their side of the wall into your side.

+1

There are even thicker paints for cinder block designed to create a moisture barrier. Might look into those too.

 

[street]

I would start by painting the common wall with the heavy duty oil base kilz and a coat of regular paint. Caulk any cracks in the wall. It could be that your furnace system is such that the returns are not pulling as much air as the output requires. Then the system pulls the air from other places. So your system could be pulling air from their side of the wall into your side.

I would do this after I got in contact with owner and tell him your dilemma. Then go from there.

 

[Jerry1]

Regarding the thought that this is coming from the furnace intake. I’m no expert, but wouldn’t that be a bigger problem? I thought the air coming from the intake was only for combustion. Combustion air should not be reaching inside the house. Do you have a carbon monoxide detector?

 

[tmm99]

Regarding the thought that this is coming from the furnace intake. I’m no expert, but wouldn’t that be a bigger problem? I thought the air coming from the intake was only for combustion. Combustion air should not be reaching inside the house. Do you have a carbon monoxide detector?

We have a carbon monoxide detector on each floor.
As for the intake for the furnace, it's in front of their house (a side of our house - our houses are not side-by-side), and they don't seem to smoke there.