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Old 07-28-2009, 11:19 PM   #21
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Originally Posted by Janet H View Post
OK - I could use some perspective....
I have a qualifying vehicle - 1999 Ford Exploder with 66,000 miles.
Usually I keep cars forever and with this mileage would expect another 5-7 years of use but I HATE this car and given the number of plastic bits that have begun snapping off it, don't believe that it will be on the road for many more years.
You're just about at the point where the dashboard and airbag covers will start to turn sticky and seem to "melt" from plastic aging.

The plastic trim bits will keep snapping, especially the important stuff like the door locks and window parts, and door handles, but the engine will keep on going. You might have a big air-conditioning bill or a problem with a starter motor, but I bet the car goes for at least another 5-7 years.

Or at least that's what happened with our 1994 Ford Taurus. We gave it away to charity last year but it's still on the road...
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Old 07-28-2009, 11:35 PM   #22
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.......I have a qualifying vehicle - 1999 Ford Exploder with 66,000 miles.
The Kelly private sale value is $2500 and I bought this heap new (stick shift, crank windows, no center console, plastic seats) and paid cash at the time.

Usually I keep cars forever and with this mileage would expect another 5-7 years of use but I HATE this car and given the number of plastic bits that have begun snapping off it, don't believe that it will be on the road for many more years. Currently, there is nothing wrong with the car mechanically and I would be buying a similar vehicle. I need to be able to tow 5,000 lbs and carry heavy, lumpy gear. I can find an SUV with better fuel stats though that would still qualify under the clunker program........
I'm a bit skeptical, Jane. To get the full $4,500 from the CARS program, you will need at a minimum to have the new MPV's Combined MPG rating to be 5 MPG higher than the Combined MPG of your old Explorer, right? What vehicle can do that, and still be rated to tow 5,000 pounds?
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Old 07-28-2009, 11:43 PM   #23
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There is no requirement that the old vehicles be crushed in the CARS program.

The engine can not be re-used, it must be destroyed/rendered non-usable. The rest of the vehicle can be parted out and whatever the junkyard can get for parts over time, they get.

Just saw last week that the feds are worried about the engine disabling part, now thinking they want the receiving auto dealers to do it on-site via draining out the oil, adding a sodium silicate solution to the crankcase, and running it till it croaks. To me, that's mechanical murder. I could not do it myself.
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Old 07-29-2009, 12:00 AM   #24
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I pondered this program. I have a 98 Jeep Cherokee w/155k miles. It has a salvage title and looks beat up so it can't be worth more than $2K. But it is used by younger son at college and if I get a new car he wouldn't get it. I'd probably have to get another 'clunker' for him. This Jeep just passed CA smog test and will probably run another couple years. Its a wonderful opportunity but we just don't need a new car right now. I have an 06 Jeep Liberty diesel which is great for off roading & towing and DWs 1997 Miata runs just fine.
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Old 07-29-2009, 02:34 AM   #25
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My 95 minivan is on the list. It has 145,000 mi. As any old car, a few things have gone wrong with it. However, its cargo hauling capacity can't be had in a small car that would replace it. The gas mileage isn't that great, but I get 24mpg on the highway, and 20mpg in town. As an ER, I don't drive that much anymore, and I need the cargo space. The AC is cold. I know how to maintain it. Should I trade it in for a Hyundai? I think I will keep my clunker. I paid cash for my last 4 cars, and do not feel like writing a big check now.
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Old 07-29-2009, 06:21 AM   #26
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I would keep my explorer (262,000 Km and counting) although it is probably more comfortable with the higher end interior. This is one of the most reliable vehicles I have owned.
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Old 07-29-2009, 09:38 AM   #27
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Personally, I'd trade that Explorer in on something new. I've gotten bored with vehicles after many years of ownership, but have never actively hated any car that I've owned. IMO, life is too short to drive a car you despise.
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Old 07-29-2009, 10:22 AM   #28
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All interesting comments. Yesterday the window crank on the drivers side sheared off in 103 temps. Grrr.....

I have been looking to see what else is out there that will fit my needs and there is very little that will tow AND qualify for the program. But there are a few. They would have been on the short list regardless of the programs existence. A lovely Touareg TDI (green diesel) would fit the bill but is spendy, there's a Toyota in the running and a few more. It has occurred to me that in the past I've bought mid-range imports but this last purchase I got a cheaper (relatively speaking) ride and maybe this is just what I should expect? Pay up front or pay at the back end of the ownership cycle - it's all the same.

Historically I've kept vehicles about 15 years - my kid is still driving my old Subaru legacy from 1990 with 200,000 + miles. So swapping this car out now at a relatively youthful 10 years feels weird, but it's about the bottom line.
Quote:
The engine can not be re-used, it must be destroyed/rendered non-usable. The rest of the vehicle can be parted out and whatever the junkyard can get for parts over time, they get.
Sad - this is the only decent part of this rig...
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Old 07-29-2009, 10:56 AM   #29
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There is no requirement that the old vehicles be crushed in the CARS program.

Sorry, but wrong (unless you think all of them will be shredded)... from the cars.gov site...

What happens to the vehicle I trade in?

The CARS Act requires that the trade-in vehicle be crushed or shredded so that it will not be resold for use in the United States or elsewhere as an automobile. The entity crushing or shredding the vehicles in this manner will be allowed to sell some parts of the vehicle prior to crushing or shredding it, but these parts cannot include the engine or the drive train.
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Old 07-29-2009, 11:07 AM   #30
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TP, I don't think that information is accurate.

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Old 07-29-2009, 11:48 AM   #31
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Putting aside the emotional issues, the formula/example below
Buying new
30,000 Gross cost of new car
- 4,500 Junker
25,500
- 4,500 dealer matching - Ford
21,000
+1,000 Sales Tax
22,000
+3,000 Incremental auto ins 10 years new vs old
+1,000 incremental annual registration new vs old - 10yr
26,000
10,400 Opportunity cost - assume 4% 10 yrs
36,400 Total cost of new car


Keeping Old - 10 years
7,000 incremental maintainance cost old vs new
5,000 Incremental gas cost - 12K miles/year $3 gas old 18 new 24 mpg
12,000
+4,800 Opportunity cost - actually less due to actual cash flow
16,800 Total old

19,600 Total net cost of new versus old

Some might dither about some of the assumptions but it takes a lot for the new to cost equal to or less than keeping the old

I have a 2000 Dodge Dakota Quad Cab with 115K miles that is on the list I get mpg
16 city
20 highway
13/14 towing highway

I expect it to last another 10 years.
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Old 07-29-2009, 01:53 PM   #32
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Dex,
Good back-of-the-envelope analysis. A couple of small points:
- I think I read that Uncle Sam (i.e. you and I) is providing a tax credit to buyers to rebate the cost of state/local taxes for new vehicles. So, the new car would go down on cost by $1000, and the opportunity costs would be slightly reduced.
- Difference in value of the vehicles at the end of ten years. The newer truck would be worth more. I wouldn't expect the difference to be more than $4000-$5000, though.
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Old 07-29-2009, 02:14 PM   #33
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I could not see where Ford was giving that big a credit...
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Old 07-29-2009, 05:47 PM   #34
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I could not see where Ford was giving that big a credit...
Let Ford Recycle Your Ride - Find out if you qualify!
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Old 07-29-2009, 05:54 PM   #35
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Dex,
Good back-of-the-envelope analysis. A couple of small points:
- I think I read that Uncle Sam (i.e. you and I) is providing a tax credit to buyers to rebate the cost of state/local taxes for new vehicles. So, the new car would go down on cost by $1000, and the opportunity costs would be slightly reduced.
- Difference in value of the vehicles at the end of ten years. The newer truck would be worth more. I wouldn't expect the difference to be more than $4000-$5000, though.
I didn't know about that tax credit.

For jollies
19,600 from about
-1,600 tax credit and other adj
18,000
- 7,000 incremental residual value new 8K vs old 1K after 10 yrs
11,000 Net cost new vs old

Let's go fat - I'm off by 6K
Cost of new vs old between 5K to 11K
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Old 07-29-2009, 09:58 PM   #36
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Test drove the new Mazda3. Yes, it's nice, and the dealer was actually quoting a price LOWER than what I can get from carsdirect, but compared to my existing van, it doesn't drive $18,000 nicer even after the clunker deal. Meanwhile, I have dance lessons and club fees that I need to pay that will earn me far more miles in my social life than can a new car.

I think I will hold off until next summer when the deals on the new 3 gets better. Unlike Janet's car, my 2002's trim pieces are holding just fine, and it just got a new front wind shield ($245), 4 new Dunlops that are great in the snow and in the rain so there is no need to get a set of snow tires ($300 including shipping and installation), a brake job ($300), a new set of spark plugs ($220?) just last year, and a transmission flush ($120) two months ago. It would be a terrible waste to junk the car.

The car salesman told me a guy who traded in a 1992 van worth $300 for a $4500 rebate. OK, that's a slam dunk deal, but mine just doesn't quite feel like such a slam dunk just yet.
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Old 07-29-2009, 10:50 PM   #37
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That appears to me to be the CFC credit... I do not see where they are matching the credit like Chrysler.... your cost analysis has two $4,500 credits...
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Old 07-30-2009, 12:31 AM   #38
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The plastic trim bits will keep snapping, especially the important stuff like the door locks and window parts, and door handles, ...
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All interesting comments. Yesterday the window crank on the drivers side sheared off in 103 temps. Grrr.....
I'm sorry, I swear I've never made that happen before...
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Old 07-30-2009, 08:24 AM   #39
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The plastic trim bits will keep snapping, especially the important stuff like the door locks and window parts, and door handles, but the engine will keep on going.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Janet H View Post
All interesting comments. Yesterday the window crank on the drivers side sheared off in 103 temps. Grrr...
That is so aggravating!!

Quote:
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I'm sorry, I swear I've never made that happen before...
Are you sure?

Yesterday the (plastic) inside handle for opening the door on the driver's side of my 2000 Solara just broke off in my hand. It wasn't even hot, here, and I was operating it very gently. In order to leave my car, I now have to open the (power) window, open the door using the outside door handle, and then close the window. Grrr....!!

No repairs at all for nine years and then two in one month (the EGR valve had to be replaced a few weeks ago). I think my Solara is trying to tell me something. I'll get the door handle repaired right away, and I hope there won't be any more repairs until I trade it in next year.
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Old 07-30-2009, 08:54 AM   #40
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Two days ago the door opening lever on the passenger side of our 1995 Honda Odyssey broke. Nords has started a polymer pandemic.

Now the fun starts. In a rational car, the inside door panel should be secured with ten small screws, and the cranks and levers should be held on their shafts by small Allen head bolts. Instead, the door skin is held on by hidden, brittle plastic clips and all the other stuff is secured with odd "easy-to-get-on-at-the-factory" hardware that each requires a proprietary tool or trick to remove.
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