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05-19-2010, 11:25 AM
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#1
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Recycles dryer sheets
Join Date: May 2008
Posts: 350
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Communication
It might be that good communication brought us humans to the top of the evolutionary heap.
I spent my career dealing with the very bottom of society and thought how unfortunate it was there was such a communication break down there. "That's to the curb" meaning trash or something bad. "Broom the floor" instead of sweep it...Sketch, rad, bogus.... and a variety of other perversions too numerous to mention.
There is the idea that poor communication tears society apart. Apparently, God even used it as a weapon against the evil.
I never thought to look up...to our elites...who use terms like deleveraging, GDP, credit default swaps, derivatives, structured investment vehicles, securitization, and the like to confuse us and remove our voices from the debate.
When we finally figure out what unemployment means, they change the definition of what it means to be out of work.
We need to understand and concern ourselves with the real world. We can't learn from history and compare our situation, if we don't know or can't communicate what's hapening now.
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05-19-2010, 11:29 AM
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#2
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Give me a museum and I'll fill it. (Picasso) Give me a forum ...
Join Date: Jun 2002
Location: Texas: No Country for Old Men
Posts: 50,021
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Sorry, I don't understand what you are saying. Is there a question or a message in there somewhere?*
* Where the heck is that sarcasm smilie...
__________________
Numbers is hard
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05-19-2010, 11:45 AM
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#3
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Recycles dryer sheets
Join Date: Jun 2009
Posts: 190
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So being educated is a good thing then!
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05-19-2010, 11:48 AM
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#4
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Give me a museum and I'll fill it. (Picasso) Give me a forum ...
Join Date: Jan 2007
Location: Independence
Posts: 7,298
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"Darmok and Jalad at Tanagra."
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05-19-2010, 11:52 AM
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#5
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Thinks s/he gets paid by the post
Join Date: May 2006
Location: Where the stars at night are big and bright
Posts: 2,847
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Quote:
Originally Posted by calmloki
"Darmok and Jalad at Tanagra."
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" Shaka, when the walls fell."
__________________
There is no pleasure in having nothing to do; the fun is having lots to do and not doing it. - Andrew Jackson
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05-19-2010, 12:07 PM
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#6
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Give me a museum and I'll fill it. (Picasso) Give me a forum ...
Join Date: Mar 2003
Posts: 18,085
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Perhaps the tinfoil helmet is askew and the alien brain control waves are getting through.
__________________
"All animals are equal, but some animals are more equal than others."
- George Orwell
Ezekiel 23:20
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05-19-2010, 12:19 PM
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#7
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Give me a museum and I'll fill it. (Picasso) Give me a forum ...
Join Date: Dec 2006
Location: Collin County, TX
Posts: 9,296
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Leonidas
"Shaka, when the walls fell."
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Ok, I'll play....
" Temba, his arms wide!"
__________________
There's no need to complicate, our time is short..
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05-19-2010, 12:20 PM
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#8
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Give me a museum and I'll fill it. (Picasso) Give me a forum ...
Join Date: Jan 2007
Location: New Orleans
Posts: 47,500
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Pete
It might be that good communication brought us humans to the top of the evolutionary heap.
I spent my career dealing with the very bottom of society and thought how unfortunate it was there was such a communication break down there. "That's to the curb" meaning trash or something bad. "Broom the floor" instead of sweep it...Sketch, rad, bogus.... and a variety of other perversions too numerous to mention.
There is the idea that poor communication tears society apart. Apparently, God even used it as a weapon against the evil.
I never thought to look up...to our elites...who use terms like deleveraging, GDP, credit default swaps, derivatives, structured investment vehicles, securitization, and the like to confuse us and remove our voices from the debate.
When we finally figure out what unemployment means, they change the definition of what it means to be out of work.
We need to understand and concern ourselves with the real world. We can't learn from history and compare our situation, if we don't know or can't communicate what's hapening now.
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My mother was an English teacher and editor, and felt the same way. The study of our own language is usually considered to be essential if one is to become a truly educated person. Education does not mean grades completed or degrees earned, in my opinion. Education is very helpful in many aspects of live and I think it is essential if our civilization is to advance.
__________________
Already we are boldly launched upon the deep; but soon we shall be lost in its unshored, harbourless immensities. - - H. Melville, 1851.
Happily retired since 2009, at age 61. Best years of my life by far!
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05-19-2010, 12:35 PM
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#9
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Recycles dryer sheets
Join Date: May 2008
Posts: 350
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Quote:
Originally Posted by REWahoo
Sorry, I don't understand what you are saying. Is there a question or a message in there somewhere?*
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Just a thought that occurred to me while looking at another thread. As far as I know, we're neither elites or dregs here.... A certain degree of understanding is necessary for us to learn. Bringing some of this language to a discussion, although spewed by our politicians and accepted by those who interview them, seems to add confusion at times.
Someone might say the economy is getting better, unemployment is falling. Well, the definition of unemployment has changed. We need to be diligent in conversation (and in our own minds) today because the language beneath it is being perverted.
The poor might have done it as a matter of fun or ignorance. My feeling is the elites are doing it to purposly confuse us.
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05-19-2010, 01:12 PM
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#10
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Give me a museum and I'll fill it. (Picasso) Give me a forum ...
Join Date: Jan 2006
Location: Rio Grande Valley
Posts: 38,145
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La destrucción de la Torre de Babel por Dios tuvo la intención de limitar la capacidad de humanos communicarse bién uno a otro. Sin embargo, civilización humana ha llegado lejos a pesar de muchos idiomas y culturas diferentes.
¿Por qué se molesta tanto por pequeños cambios en frases en el uso familiar del idioma? Creo que el cerebro humano es diseñado para comprender muchas variaciones en la expresión.
Audrey (que estos días mira telenovelas mexicanas mejorar su comprensión española.)
__________________
Retired since summer 1999.
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05-19-2010, 01:19 PM
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#11
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Give me a museum and I'll fill it. (Picasso) Give me a forum ...
Join Date: Jun 2002
Location: Texas: No Country for Old Men
Posts: 50,021
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Quote:
Originally Posted by audreyh1
La destrucción de la Torre de Babel por Dios tuvo la intención de limitar la capacidad de humanos communicarse bién uno a otro. Sin embargo, civilización humana ha llegado lejos a pesar de muchos idiomas y culturas diferentes.
¿Por qué se molesta tanto por pequeños cambios en frases en el uso familiar del idioma? Creo que el cerebro humano es diseñado para comprender muchas variaciones en la expresión.
Audrey (que estos días mira telenovelas mexicanas para mejorar su comprensión española.)
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Run through Google Translate and you get:
Quote:
Destruction of the tower of Babel by God intended to limit the capacity of humans to each other also communicable. However, human civilization has come far in spite of many languages and cultures.
Why so upset by small changes in sentences in the family use of language? I think the human brain is designed to understand many variations in the expression.
Audrey (which these days looks Mexican telenovelas to improve their understanding Spanish.)
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__________________
Numbers is hard
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05-19-2010, 01:37 PM
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#12
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Give me a museum and I'll fill it. (Picasso) Give me a forum ...
Join Date: Nov 2007
Posts: 5,596
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Pete
As far as I know, we're neither elites or dregs here....
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Nope, just lumpen slum dwellers.
This reminded me how I've noticed the term "lumpen slum" bandied about recently. It's a rather recent addition to the ER forum vocabulary. I did a search and found a definition here:
http://www.early-retirement.org/foru...tml#post929113
__________________
I purr therefore I am.
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05-19-2010, 01:47 PM
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#13
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Give me a museum and I'll fill it. (Picasso) Give me a forum ...
Join Date: Jan 2006
Location: Rio Grande Valley
Posts: 38,145
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Audrey meant to say approximately:
Quote:
The destruction of the Tower of Babel by God had the intention of limiting the ability of humans to communicate with each other. Nevertheless, human civilization has come far in spite of many languages and different cultures.
Why be so upset by small changes in phrases in the colloquial use of language? I believe the human brain is designed to understand many variations in expression.
Audrey (who these days watches Mexican soap operas to improve her Spanish comprehension.)
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But I must say that Google translation captured the heart of the message.
I've been doing a lot in another language recently, so the OP rant on communication today struck me as particularly funny since the differences frustrating him seem so minor compared to bridging between different languages which humans achieve all the time!
I guess the problem is that Google doesn't translate "english to english", although you certainly can get a lot of help interpreting the "elite lingo", and, who knows, maybe slang as well.
All language developed through human experimentation IMO. Seems like we should be able to handle minor variations. Yes, it's easier if someone speaks exactly the way you think, but why would you ever expect that?
Audrey
__________________
Retired since summer 1999.
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05-19-2010, 03:17 PM
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#14
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Thinks s/he gets paid by the post
Join Date: Jul 2009
Location: Austin
Posts: 1,142
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__________________
Start by admitting
from cradle to tomb
it isn't that long a stay.
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05-19-2010, 03:43 PM
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#15
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Give me a museum and I'll fill it. (Picasso) Give me a forum ...
Join Date: Nov 2007
Posts: 5,596
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Quote:
Originally Posted by IndependentlyPoor
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I feel like I'm at a Star Trek Convention....
__________________
I purr therefore I am.
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05-19-2010, 04:53 PM
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#16
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Administrator
Join Date: Apr 2006
Posts: 23,039
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Quote:
Originally Posted by audreyh1
Audrey meant to say approximately:
But I must say that Google translation captured the heart of the message.
I've been doing a lot in another language recently, so the OP rant on communication today struck me as particularly funny since the differences frustrating him seem so minor compared to bridging between different languages which humans achieve all the time!
I guess the problem is that Google doesn't translate "english to english", although you certainly can get a lot of help interpreting the "elite lingo", and, who knows, maybe slang as well.
All language developed through human experimentation IMO. Seems like we should be able to handle minor variations. Yes, it's easier if someone speaks exactly the way you think, but why would you ever expect that?
Audrey
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But Pete does have a valid point. Language can be used either to enlighten or to confuse. I have been a military officer, an engineer and a lawyer. All three professions tend to use jargon, obscure acronyms, arcane phrases and other "terms of art" to communicate with others in the profession. That does two principal things. First, it reinforces group identity by members of the profession, because those inside the group have knowledge and a language unknown to the general public. Second, it sends the message to those outside the group that "we are the experts here. No need for you to question what we are doing. You wouldn't understand the explanation anyway."
I share Pete's belief that much of the language used in the structured finance world was deliberately designed to obscure and confuse.
To quote what has been described as an ancient Chinese proverb
"Wisdom begins with calling a thing by its proper name."
__________________
Living an analog life in the Digital Age.
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05-19-2010, 05:31 PM
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#17
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Give me a museum and I'll fill it. (Picasso) Give me a forum ...
Join Date: Dec 2008
Posts: 12,659
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I always assumed "lumpen proletariat" meant something on the order of frumpy, dumpy riff-raff, which certainly fit the context of whatever I was reading at the time
Amethyst (occasional wearer of trailer-park trinkets)
Quote:
Originally Posted by Purron
Nope, just lumpen slum dwellers.
This reminded me how I've noticed the term "lumpen slum" bandied about recently. It's a rather recent addition to the ER forum vocabulary. I did a search and found a definition here:
http://www.early-retirement.org/foru...tml#post929113
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__________________
If you understood everything I say, you'd be me ~ Miles Davis
'There is only one success – to be able to spend your life in your own way.’ Christopher Morley.
Even a blind clock finds an acorn twice a day.
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05-19-2010, 05:56 PM
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#18
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Full time employment: Posting here.
Join Date: Mar 2008
Location: Northern California
Posts: 549
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My favorite perversion of the English language is the term "I mis-remembered," instead of saying "I lied."
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05-19-2010, 06:00 PM
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#19
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Give me a museum and I'll fill it. (Picasso) Give me a forum ...
Join Date: Oct 2003
Posts: 5,105
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Seriously people,
Have we forgotten George Orwell's 1984? You control the words; you control the thoughts and by extension the action.
Read the book or rent the movie.
What the OP mentioned is not new. A simple one was the change of the War Department to the Dept. of Defense. Why? Most people can support defense but not war.
Newspeak - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
To control thought
“ By 2050—earlier, probably—all real knowledge of Oldspeak will have disappeared. The whole literature of the past will have been destroyed. Chaucer, Shakespeare, Milton, Byron—they'll exist only in Newspeak versions, not merely changed into something different, but actually contradictory of what they used to be. Even the literature of the Party will change. Even the slogans will change. How could you have a slogan like "freedom is slavery" when the concept of freedom has been abolished? The whole climate of thought will be different. In fact there will be no thought, as we understand it now. Orthodoxy means not thinking—not needing to think. Orthodoxy is unconsciousness. [4]
__________________
Sometimes death is not as tragic as not knowing how to live. This man knew how to live--and how to make others glad they were living. - Jack Benny at Nat King Cole's funeral
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05-19-2010, 06:09 PM
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#20
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Give me a museum and I'll fill it. (Picasso) Give me a forum ...
Join Date: Dec 2007
Location: Denver, Colorado
Posts: 6,258
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Gumby
... to communicate with others in the profession. That does two principal things. First, it reinforces group identity by members of the profession, because those inside the group have knowledge and a language unknown to the general public. Second, it sends the message to those outside the group that "we are the experts here. No need for you to question what we are doing. You wouldn't understand the explanation anyway."
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Sounds like every teenager since... well, in my lifetime anyway.
__________________
"It's tough to make predictions, especially when it involves the future." ~Attributed to many
"In theory, there is no difference between theory and practice. But, in practice, there is." ~(perhaps by) Yogi Berra
"Those who have knowledge, don't predict. Those who predict, don't have knowledge."~ Lau tzu
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