Conceal and Carry Question

[fisherman]

We meet all three criteria...except our piece of land isn't especially big...and there is no way I'd keep a pistol under the mattress, that's why they designed nightstands...and one of our two large noisy dogs died last month. But other than that, we're in complete agreement.

Just keep them all loaded. Do you know how many people are killed by guns people thought were unload every year?

 

[vicente solano]

I´m sure I won´t be the one that Porkies this thread with this observation:

I must have read more than 400 American crime novels....I don´t remember any of them where any of the main/imprtant characters -other than cops- carried a concealed gun. And very very few had a gun in their houses.
And I´ve been reading hard boiled crime fiction, from John Sandford to G. Pelecanos to Michael Connelly or from Jonathan Nasaw to Joseph Wambaugh to Ed Mc Bain to Greg Iles.....

I´ve been nice and polite, haven´t I?

 

[Purron]

moderators are all peering at this thread with one hand posed on the Porky button, just waiting for the gun to go off...

Son of a .... gun

YouTube - Banned Porky Pig commercial

 

[lets-retire]

I must have read more than 400 American crime novels....I don´t remember any of them where any of the main/imprtant characters -other than cops- carried a concealed gun. And very very few had a gun in their houses.
And I´ve been reading hard boiled crime fiction, from John Sandford to G. Pelecanos to Michael Connelly or from Jonathan Nasaw to Joseph Wambaugh to Ed Mc Bain to Greg Iles.....

I´ve been nice and polite, haven´t I?

I'm sure you understand that a crime NOVEL can have anything happen the writer wants. Using that as a basis for an opinion is a poor base.

Yes you have been polite.

 

[dex]

Dex- Even if I never chose to carry would it be worth the time and money ($125) to attend one of these all day training classes?

I don't know what that class teaches you so, I can not comment. I would suggest a couple of basic things.
1. safe gun handling - The is not as simple as it sounds. I recently read a post from a guy who shot himself in the foot. He said he was told by an instructor that when you want to unload your gun place it pointing down between your legs. Somehow he shot himself in the foot. Obviously, he did two things wrong - swept himself and had his finger on the trigger.

2. Go to a range and shoot until you feel comfortable.

3. Go to an IDPA match first time to watch and second time to enter.

International Defensive Pistol Association

 

[dex]

The recent shooting in Tucson is a good example. Lots of scuttlebutt about "if the people were armed, someone could have stopped the shooter". Possibly. Or, someone could have returned fire and killed another innocent bystander, or could have become the shooter's next target themselves, or could have been shot by a LEO...

This argument is use by pro and anti gunners alike.

The police are for protecting others and even there the Supreme Court has upheld that the police are there to protect society as a whole, not the individual.

A private gun owners' responsibility is protect himself and not others. I think carrying around the weight of a gun makes a person more cautious rather than not. If people doubt this place about 20 oz (LCP) or 30 oz (Glock 26) in coins in your pocket or on your hip. It will be a constant reminder about being aware and avoiding confrontation or risk.

 

[dex]

You are correct, if someone wants to shoot you then you won't have the time to pull your gun. As I said, nothing good will happen when there is a gun involved.

That is true whenever a person is being attacked. If someone wants to attack you they will. The attacker chooses, the place, time, method and tool. You might as well say 'nothing good come out of leaving your house'.

 

[braumeister]

It's nearly always true that discussions about guns descend into discussions of politics, and are usually better avoided.

Personally, my choice is to give myself a "last ditch" option. I'm highly trained and experienced, and I keep my training and experience constantly updated, but I fervently hope I'll never have to unholster. Nevertheless, as the saying goes, "When seconds count, the police are only minutes away."

 

[zinger1457]

My home state of Arizona has taken the concealed weapon laws to a new level. The state legislature passed a bill last year that no longer requires someone to have a permit to carry a concealed weapon, which means no back ground checks or weapons training classes are needed. It does seem that every person I have met that carries a concealed weapon stresses the need of being properly trained in handling a weapon so the need for and benefits of this bill escapes me.

 

[73ss454]

That is true whenever a person is being attacked. If someone wants to attack you they will. The attacker chooses, the place, time, method and tool. You might as well say 'nothing good come out of leaving your house'.

What?

 

[Mulligan]

I don't know what that class teaches you so, I can not comment. I would suggest a couple of basic things.
1. safe gun handling - The is not as simple as it sounds. I recently read a post from a guy who shot himself in the foot. He said he was told by an instructor that when you want to unload your gun place it pointing down between your legs. Somehow he shot himself in the foot. Obviously, he did two things wrong - swept himself and had his finger on the trigger.

2. Go to a range and shoot until you feel comfortable.

3. Go to an IDPA match first time to watch and second time to enter.

International Defensive Pistol Association

Im sorry Dex , I didnt expalin myself properly. I am going to take a handgun training class next week. The $125 I was referring to was a conceal and carry class. In MO, you have to take this course in order to be able to carry a concealed weapon. Did you have to take that kind of course to be able to have your permit? If you have are there other relevant gun safety info i would learn out of it?

 

[M Paquette]

My home state of Arizona has taken the concealed weapon laws to a new level. The state legislature passed a bill last year that no longer requires someone to have a permit to carry a concealed weapon, which means no back ground checks or weapons training classes are needed. It does seem that every person I have met that carries a concealed weapon stresses the need of being properly trained in handling a weapon so the need for and benefits of this bill escapes me.

That's OK. There are constitutional challenges to the laws requiring training classes and, in the 'may issue' states, to the ability of a permit issuer to decline to issue to persons he judges not to be fit to carry.

I look forward to the day when we have lots of untrained, unstable folks wandering the streets, not knowing why it's bad to leave a round chambered, or what that funny 'safety' thing is for.

Think of it as evolution in action.

 

[dex]

Im sorry Dex , I didnt expalin myself properly. I am going to take a handgun training class next week. The $125 I was referring to was a conceal and carry class. In MO, you have to take this course in order to be able to carry a concealed weapon. Did you have to take that kind of course to be able to have your permit? If you have are there other relevant gun safety info i would learn out of it?

I would say take the class. They probably will focus on the legal aspects and safety. Some states that have restrictive knife laws a concealed gun permit covers a knife. Also, with a concealed carry permit you don't have to be worried about how you carry to/from the range. In, my state you don't have to pay for the background check when buying a gun if you have a cc permit. My state does not require a class and the permit costs $60 for 5 years.

I don't know about other safety info except for training, IDPA and being aware of it. Watch those around you when at the range to make sure they are using proper handling. I would recommend the IDPA. The ones I went to were very safe. The IDPA shoots set up scenarios, movement, different distances etc.

 

[lets-retire]

It does seem that every person I have met that carries a concealed weapon stresses the need of being properly trained in handling a weapon so the need for and benefits of this bill escapes me.

Everyone who carries concealed should know how to handle a firearm safely. For their safety and the safety of others. Whether that training is received from a class, from a personal friend who is knowledgeable, a parent, or whoever the main point is the person should know how to handle the firearm safely. Classes are the easiest way to recommend getting that training. The other side the training is knowing when and where the firearm can not be taken. A person can review many, many laws to figure it out or they can go to a class and learn about it. The recommendation that a person go to a class typically is the easiest way to advise a person to know what they are doing before carrying concealed.

I don't know what the law in AZ says but if it allows carry pretty much anyplace you want, then the only part of the knowledge a person should have is safe firearms handling and when to use the firearm. Failing to handle the firearm safely can result in a person shooting someone who doesn't need to be shot or shooting themselves. Going along with safe firearms handling is accurately shooting the thing. If you can't hit anything then carrying the firearm is a bit pointless. There is only one way to improve shooting skill and that is by shooting.

 

[lets-retire]

I look forward to the day when we have lots of untrained, unstable folks wandering the streets, not knowing why it's bad to leave a round chambered, or what that funny 'safety' thing is for.

My safety is located between my thumb and middle finger. The firearm I carry doesn't have an external safety. Exactly why is it a bad thing to carry a firearm ready to use? You might as well not carry it at all. I agree about the unstable shouldn't be able to carry, but it is almost impossible to determine who is stable and who is not.

 

[M Paquette]

My safety is located between my thumb and middle finger. The firearm I carry doesn't have an external safety. Exactly why is it a bad thing to carry a firearm ready to use? You might as well not carry it at all. I agree about the unstable shouldn't be able to carry, but it is almost impossible to determine who is stable and who is not.

Sounds like someone who has never owned a Remington 700 series with the old model trigger assembly. (The X-Mark Pro mechanism fixes the problem)

Then there are the obvious ones. Carrying a Colt-style revolver with a loaded chamber under the hammer. "oops... thud... BANG!" (Modern hammer block or transfer bar safeties improve the situation.)

Alas, it is quite possible to have a weapon discharge without squeezing the trigger. But this is what those pesky gun safety courses are for, right?

 

[braumeister]

it is [-]quite[/-] nearly impossible to have a weapon discharge without squeezing the trigger.

Fixed it for you.

I also agree with dex about the value of IDPA. Great training opportunity. I'm an IDPA Safety Officer, and can guarantee that you'll learn plenty about civilian use of a concealed gun in an extremely safe environment.

You can find a nearby venue at International Defensive Pistol Association

 

[RonBoyd]

but it is almost impossible to determine who is stable and who is not.

I have been visiting this Forum for several years now and can confirm that conclusion.

 

[Westernskies]

Aren't you imposing your view? Are folks that don't want to carry or have guns not responsible?

Are you telling me that on this forum people don't have the right to tell their views. Maybe we should close the forum up?

With all due rspect, 73ss454, I'm not imposing my views on anyone. I fully support your right not to have anything to do with firearms, but would hope that you respect my legal right to own one (or more...)if I choose to do so in a law abiding manner. I'm not going to change your feelings about gun ownership and your're not going to change mine, we both know that.

Gun rights discussions can be highly polarizing for many people; I believe that both sides tend to stake out extreme positions to support their respective views on this issue. Unfortunately, IMO, the majority of the anti-gun crowd wants to impose their views on others through uncompromising support of never-ending restrictions, fact of law notwithstanding.

I am glad we live in a country that recognizes the rights of its citizens to own firearms if they so choose, I'm also glad we are able to have such a civil discussion here on FIRE about this subject, thanks to everyone for keeping the rhetoric in check, and to the mods for keeping the pig in the pen.

 

[MDJO]

My son and I have permits. He has a Ruger LCR and I have a Smith & Wesson .38 special Airweight. We don't carry, but it's nice to be able to legally have the loaded gun in my glove compartment.

A high powered strobe flashlight is an excellent self defense tool. No permit required, and you can take it anywhere.

 

[dex]

A high powered strobe flashlight is an excellent self defense tool. No permit required, and you can take it anywhere.

Good point - don't forget the pepper spray.

 

[Nords]

In addition to the inconveniences mentioned by Samclem, [-]I wonder if[/-] I'm pretty sure that being armed would make me more likely to take imprudent risks that I would not normally take.

Fixed for the circumstances I'd find myself in. If I get into a confrontation I want to have a reason to [-]walk[/-] run away, not escalate.

As retired law enforcement I carry...

I'm retired from law enforcement and haven't even bothered to qualify to carry under the LEOSA. I just don't see the need. Every city has places that it is better not to be at certain times. I just don't go to those places at those times.
So to me at least, the value of carrying it is negligible.

I have nationwide authority to carry. The only time I do is when I go to three cities.

It's interesting that the majority of the people who've had to carry choose not to unless required to.

I'm not really on either side of the Second-Amendment perpetual debate, but when I think of owning a gun I think of my father-in-law. He's owned a loaded 9mm in his nightstand for literally decades. I've never seen him or heard of him taking a safety class, cleaning/maintaining it, visiting the gun range, or otherwise doing anything to maintain proficiency. If he ever got into a home-defense situation, let alone self-defense, the first thing he'd do would be to shoot himself taking it off safety. If I was to own a firearm again I'd feel obligated to spend a few hours a week taking proper care of it, and I'm just not interested in living someplace where I feel obligated to do so.

When my daughter showed up at Rice University, one of the "welcome aboard" gifts from the campus police was a firearm cable lock... is this a Rice custom, a Texas custom, or meant to substitute for a bicycle lock?

 

[REWahoo]

When my daughter showed up at Rice University, one of the "welcome aboard" gifts from the campus police was a firearm cable lock... is this a Rice custom, a Texas custom, or meant to substitute for a bicycle lock?

It's a Texas custom directed to recent imports - helps prevent them from killin' those who don't really need it.

 

[Purron]

I understand Vincente's puzzlement about us. I am too my dear Spanish friend. Us Americanos are quite bizarre sometimes. But we do make great movies.

 

[M Paquette]

I'm not really on either side of the Second-Amendment perpetual debate, but when I think of owning a gun I think of my father-in-law. He's owned a loaded 9mm in his nightstand for literally decades. I've never seen him or heard of him taking a safety class, cleaning/maintaining it, visiting the gun range, or otherwise doing anything to maintain proficiency.

Must be a father-in-law thing. I'm pretty sure we're not related...

My FIL has this decrepit .22 revolver, that probably started life as a Saturday Night Special 50 years ago. From the crud I'd say it has never been cleaned, and from the mechanical state I'd say it's more dangerous to the owner than anyone it's pointed at. The chamber under the hammer is supposed to line up with the barrel, right?

He asked me about firing it in his back yard, and I flat out told him that the only way I'd fire that thing was on a range, in a clamp, with a cord, from behind a shield. Yeah, it's only a .22, but I'd be afraid of pot metal flying everywhere.

As a personal protection device, I'd say his best bet would be to hand it to the robber.