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Old 01-22-2011, 03:59 PM   #61
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I don't know what that class teaches you so, I can not comment. I would suggest a couple of basic things.
1. safe gun handling - The is not as simple as it sounds. I recently read a post from a guy who shot himself in the foot. He said he was told by an instructor that when you want to unload your gun place it pointing down between your legs. Somehow he shot himself in the foot. Obviously, he did two things wrong - swept himself and had his finger on the trigger.

2. Go to a range and shoot until you feel comfortable.

3. Go to an IDPA match first time to watch and second time to enter.

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Im sorry Dex , I didnt expalin myself properly. I am going to take a handgun training class next week. The $125 I was referring to was a conceal and carry class. In MO, you have to take this course in order to be able to carry a concealed weapon. Did you have to take that kind of course to be able to have your permit? If you have are there other relevant gun safety info i would learn out of it?
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Old 01-22-2011, 04:12 PM   #62
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My home state of Arizona has taken the concealed weapon laws to a new level. The state legislature passed a bill last year that no longer requires someone to have a permit to carry a concealed weapon, which means no back ground checks or weapons training classes are needed. It does seem that every person I have met that carries a concealed weapon stresses the need of being properly trained in handling a weapon so the need for and benefits of this bill escapes me.
That's OK. There are constitutional challenges to the laws requiring training classes and, in the 'may issue' states, to the ability of a permit issuer to decline to issue to persons he judges not to be fit to carry.

I look forward to the day when we have lots of untrained, unstable folks wandering the streets, not knowing why it's bad to leave a round chambered, or what that funny 'safety' thing is for.

Think of it as evolution in action.
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Old 01-22-2011, 04:19 PM   #63
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Im sorry Dex , I didnt expalin myself properly. I am going to take a handgun training class next week. The $125 I was referring to was a conceal and carry class. In MO, you have to take this course in order to be able to carry a concealed weapon. Did you have to take that kind of course to be able to have your permit? If you have are there other relevant gun safety info i would learn out of it?
I would say take the class. They probably will focus on the legal aspects and safety. Some states that have restrictive knife laws a concealed gun permit covers a knife. Also, with a concealed carry permit you don't have to be worried about how you carry to/from the range. In, my state you don't have to pay for the background check when buying a gun if you have a cc permit. My state does not require a class and the permit costs $60 for 5 years.

I don't know about other safety info except for training, IDPA and being aware of it. Watch those around you when at the range to make sure they are using proper handling. I would recommend the IDPA. The ones I went to were very safe. The IDPA shoots set up scenarios, movement, different distances etc.
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Old 01-22-2011, 04:25 PM   #64
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It does seem that every person I have met that carries a concealed weapon stresses the need of being properly trained in handling a weapon so the need for and benefits of this bill escapes me.
Everyone who carries concealed should know how to handle a firearm safely. For their safety and the safety of others. Whether that training is received from a class, from a personal friend who is knowledgeable, a parent, or whoever the main point is the person should know how to handle the firearm safely. Classes are the easiest way to recommend getting that training. The other side the training is knowing when and where the firearm can not be taken. A person can review many, many laws to figure it out or they can go to a class and learn about it. The recommendation that a person go to a class typically is the easiest way to advise a person to know what they are doing before carrying concealed.

I don't know what the law in AZ says but if it allows carry pretty much anyplace you want, then the only part of the knowledge a person should have is safe firearms handling and when to use the firearm. Failing to handle the firearm safely can result in a person shooting someone who doesn't need to be shot or shooting themselves. Going along with safe firearms handling is accurately shooting the thing. If you can't hit anything then carrying the firearm is a bit pointless. There is only one way to improve shooting skill and that is by shooting.
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Old 01-22-2011, 04:33 PM   #65
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I look forward to the day when we have lots of untrained, unstable folks wandering the streets, not knowing why it's bad to leave a round chambered, or what that funny 'safety' thing is for.
My safety is located between my thumb and middle finger. The firearm I carry doesn't have an external safety. Exactly why is it a bad thing to carry a firearm ready to use? You might as well not carry it at all. I agree about the unstable shouldn't be able to carry, but it is almost impossible to determine who is stable and who is not.
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Old 01-22-2011, 04:55 PM   #66
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My safety is located between my thumb and middle finger. The firearm I carry doesn't have an external safety. Exactly why is it a bad thing to carry a firearm ready to use? You might as well not carry it at all. I agree about the unstable shouldn't be able to carry, but it is almost impossible to determine who is stable and who is not.
Sounds like someone who has never owned a Remington 700 series with the old model trigger assembly. (The X-Mark Pro mechanism fixes the problem)

Then there are the obvious ones. Carrying a Colt-style revolver with a loaded chamber under the hammer. "oops... thud... BANG!" (Modern hammer block or transfer bar safeties improve the situation.)

Alas, it is quite possible to have a weapon discharge without squeezing the trigger. But this is what those pesky gun safety courses are for, right?
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Old 01-22-2011, 05:11 PM   #67
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it is quite nearly impossible to have a weapon discharge without squeezing the trigger.
Fixed it for you.

I also agree with dex about the value of IDPA. Great training opportunity. I'm an IDPA Safety Officer, and can guarantee that you'll learn plenty about civilian use of a concealed gun in an extremely safe environment.

You can find a nearby venue at International Defensive Pistol Association
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Old 01-22-2011, 05:18 PM   #68
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but it is almost impossible to determine who is stable and who is not.
I have been visiting this Forum for several years now and can confirm that conclusion.
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Old 01-22-2011, 05:30 PM   #69
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Aren't you imposing your view? Are folks that don't want to carry or have guns not responsible?

Are you telling me that on this forum people don't have the right to tell their views. Maybe we should close the forum up?
With all due rspect, 73ss454, I'm not imposing my views on anyone. I fully support your right not to have anything to do with firearms, but would hope that you respect my legal right to own one (or more...)if I choose to do so in a law abiding manner. I'm not going to change your feelings about gun ownership and your're not going to change mine, we both know that.

Gun rights discussions can be highly polarizing for many people; I believe that both sides tend to stake out extreme positions to support their respective views on this issue. Unfortunately, IMO, the majority of the anti-gun crowd wants to impose their views on others through uncompromising support of never-ending restrictions, fact of law notwithstanding.

I am glad we live in a country that recognizes the rights of its citizens to own firearms if they so choose, I'm also glad we are able to have such a civil discussion here on FIRE about this subject, thanks to everyone for keeping the rhetoric in check, and to the mods for keeping the pig in the pen.
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Old 01-22-2011, 05:56 PM   #70
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My son and I have permits. He has a Ruger LCR and I have a Smith & Wesson .38 special Airweight. We don't carry, but it's nice to be able to legally have the loaded gun in my glove compartment.

A high powered strobe flashlight is an excellent self defense tool. No permit required, and you can take it anywhere.
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Old 01-22-2011, 06:15 PM   #71
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A high powered strobe flashlight is an excellent self defense tool. No permit required, and you can take it anywhere.
Good point - don't forget the pepper spray.
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Old 01-22-2011, 06:19 PM   #72
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In addition to the inconveniences mentioned by Samclem, I wonder if I'm pretty sure that being armed would make me more likely to take imprudent risks that I would not normally take.
Fixed for the circumstances I'd find myself in. If I get into a confrontation I want to have a reason to walk run away, not escalate.

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As retired law enforcement I carry...
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I'm retired from law enforcement and haven't even bothered to qualify to carry under the LEOSA. I just don't see the need. Every city has places that it is better not to be at certain times. I just don't go to those places at those times.
So to me at least, the value of carrying it is negligible.
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I have nationwide authority to carry. The only time I do is when I go to three cities.
It's interesting that the majority of the people who've had to carry choose not to unless required to.

I'm not really on either side of the Second-Amendment perpetual debate, but when I think of owning a gun I think of my father-in-law. He's owned a loaded 9mm in his nightstand for literally decades. I've never seen him or heard of him taking a safety class, cleaning/maintaining it, visiting the gun range, or otherwise doing anything to maintain proficiency. If he ever got into a home-defense situation, let alone self-defense, the first thing he'd do would be to shoot himself taking it off safety. If I was to own a firearm again I'd feel obligated to spend a few hours a week taking proper care of it, and I'm just not interested in living someplace where I feel obligated to do so.

When my daughter showed up at Rice University, one of the "welcome aboard" gifts from the campus police was a firearm cable lock... is this a Rice custom, a Texas custom, or meant to substitute for a bicycle lock?
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Old 01-22-2011, 06:24 PM   #73
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When my daughter showed up at Rice University, one of the "welcome aboard" gifts from the campus police was a firearm cable lock... is this a Rice custom, a Texas custom, or meant to substitute for a bicycle lock?
It's a Texas custom directed to recent imports - helps prevent them from killin' those who don't really need it.
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Old 01-22-2011, 06:32 PM   #74
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Old 01-22-2011, 06:35 PM   #75
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I'm not really on either side of the Second-Amendment perpetual debate, but when I think of owning a gun I think of my father-in-law. He's owned a loaded 9mm in his nightstand for literally decades. I've never seen him or heard of him taking a safety class, cleaning/maintaining it, visiting the gun range, or otherwise doing anything to maintain proficiency.
Must be a father-in-law thing. I'm pretty sure we're not related...

My FIL has this decrepit .22 revolver, that probably started life as a Saturday Night Special 50 years ago. From the crud I'd say it has never been cleaned, and from the mechanical state I'd say it's more dangerous to the owner than anyone it's pointed at. The chamber under the hammer is supposed to line up with the barrel, right?

He asked me about firing it in his back yard, and I flat out told him that the only way I'd fire that thing was on a range, in a clamp, with a cord, from behind a shield. Yeah, it's only a .22, but I'd be afraid of pot metal flying everywhere.

As a personal protection device, I'd say his best bet would be to hand it to the robber.
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Old 01-22-2011, 06:41 PM   #76
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This is a hard question, and as has been pointed out, it brings up a lot of feelings.

I got my first .22 at 10, my first shotgun at 15, and my first pistol-a Smith and Wesson Model 10 at 16. (Still have it too) I switched to a Glock about 10 years ago. I've fired 10,000s of thousands rounds, and loved every minute of it.

But I have never carried. I just don't feel like I want to. people often think their weapons are concealed, but I have seen plenty of them. And how about that conservative looking guy wearing aviator glasses and wearing a belly pack Or a huge Hawaiian shirt?

There are definitely pluses and minuses for either position.

Ha
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Old 01-22-2011, 06:47 PM   #77
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Then by all means, don't carry one. But don't try to impose your views on responsible, law-abiding citizens who feel differently.
What you said here is that I shouldn't have the right to state my views. You surely expressed yours which you have the right to do. We just don't have to agree.
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Old 01-22-2011, 06:59 PM   #78
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Then by all means, don't carry one. But don't try to impose your views on responsible, law-abiding citizens who feel differently.
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What you said here is that I shouldn't have the right to state my views. You surely expressed yours which you have the right to do. We just don't have to agree.
Hmmmmm.

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I have been saying that for politicians we should bring back the duel. If they want to question each others word they can resolve it like our forefathers. This should improve their civility.
This thread may can, with little effort, turn out to be more fun than I anticipated.
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Old 01-22-2011, 07:25 PM   #79
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..........when I think of owning a gun I think of my father-in-law. He's owned a loaded 9mm in his nightstand for literally decades...........
Sadly, I think for a lot of guys this is a way of controlling their end of life scenario - i.e. leaving suicide as an option to a nursing home.
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Old 01-22-2011, 07:42 PM   #80
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After I had a little problem at my house with a meth addict on a rampage a few years ago, a cop suggested that I invest in a baseball bat to keep just inside my front door.
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