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Old 10-03-2010, 10:55 AM   #41
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And the equally ignorant response could be: You want real Government control? Turn over all your belongings and income to the Government and let them determine how much you get and what you are allowed to do with your time since they are so all-knowing. Let us know after you've done that, if they allow you computer access. geesh.


I'll paraphrase a bit, but there is a saying that it is difficult/impossible to convince someone of something, if the belief in that thing challenges their own livelihood.

How they appear to others when they try to defend the indefensible isn't changed though.

-ERD50

Who said they wanted "real government control" ? Who clams that as a "virtue" or an "ideal" ? you threw out the terms"your belongings" exactly who or what makes them "yours"? In Kabul its a gun , here it is a government

We live in a complex society where what we think of "your belongings" or wealth or property or rights are generated and defined in a matrix of personal and social actions.

You can't separate them
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Old 10-03-2010, 11:04 AM   #42
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Who said they wanted "real government control" ?
And who said the wanted "anarchy"?

I'm done with your circular justifications - bye. - ERD50
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Old 10-03-2010, 01:02 PM   #43
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I am becoming more of a libertarian as each day passes. Where does it end? Can you picture the enforcement of this? Say you are in Onalaska Texas, and you think the commercials are too high. What sort of bureaucracy will exist to check out you complaint. I have a volume control, a mute button, and a channel button. I can handle this and do not need another Washington bureaucracy/police department to solve this problem.
No different than now. The FCC will check out your complaint. Just as it does if people cuss or have wardrobe malfunctions on prime time.
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Old 10-03-2010, 01:31 PM   #44
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I learned 40 years ago in public school that advertisers sometimes made their commercials louder on TV and that there was a mandate against that. I've always thought that the law went into effect decades ago. I guess I was totally wrong, though I'm sure this treating of loudness of commercials has been on the drawing boards or books for a very long time.

Of course, the producers of TV series can make sure the scene before cutting to a commercial is quieter than the average scene in the show, so that a standard volume commercial seems louder.

Actually it would be pretty funny if the law was already on the books. It would make Congress look pretty stupider. "Oh, there already is a law like that? Never mind."
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Old 10-03-2010, 02:04 PM   #45
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For what little it's worth here, many TVs, amplifiers, and receivers offer a feature variously named 'Late Night Cinema, 'Midnight Listening', 'Night Mode', 'Dynamic Range Compression', or similar colorful phrases. The feature reduces or limits the dynamic range of sound, making quiet bits louder, and loud bits quieter.

This does a nice job of whacking commercials that have adjusted the loudness of everything in them toward peak loudness. It's a technological fix, though,and doesn't provide the full employment of regulators and litigators combined with ineffective application that a regulation carries with it.
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Old 10-03-2010, 02:43 PM   #46
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And who said the wanted "anarchy"?

I'm done with your circular justifications - bye. - ERD50
Everytime some claims they are libertarian I point out that it was a concept invented by Anarchists

its like using sex worker instead of prostitute
Libertarian is a Euphemism
We know what they are we are just arguing price
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Old 10-03-2010, 03:07 PM   #47
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Everytime some claims they are libertarian I point out that it was a concept invented by Anarchists

its like using sex worker instead of prostitute
Libertarian is a Euphemism
I would think most taxonomists (legal or illegal) would place a high value on precision in word usage--as words are their stock-in-trade. To deliberately add grit to the machinery of political discourse by claiming libertarians and anarchists are the same thing seems unusual.

To begin with the fundamentals:
Does an anarchist agree that government is desirable? No
Does a libertarian agree that government is desirable? Yes, it is essential.

This would seem, to me, to be a fairly significant distinction.
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Old 10-03-2010, 03:50 PM   #48
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I would think most taxonomists (legal or illegal) would place a high value on precision in word usage--as words are their stock-in-trade. To deliberately add grit to the machinery of political discourse by claiming libertarians and anarchists are the same thing seems unusual.

To begin with the fundamentals:
Does an anarchist agree that government is desirable? No
Does a libertarian agree that government is desirable? Yes, it is essential.

This would seem, to me, to be a fairly significant distinction.

Taxonomists do not define words. they classify things
IMHO Libertarians are anarchists who believe in magic fairy dust.

Saying "Does a libertarian agree that government is desirable? Yes, it is essential." is a fun dodge, but when it comes to cases they cannot come up with a principled system of limited government except classical positivism. So I don't recognize their pseudo-category
of "limited government libertarian" they simply are people who thinks the government should not regulate the things THEY don't like the government to regulate


I always ask libertarian what should be the social reaction to a person who has a gun which is stolen and used in a crime. Are they responsible or not? Anarchists would clearly say no, the concept of responsibility is anathema. Libertarians have never come up with a clear answer based on principles. If they like guns they say no responsibility. If they don't like guns they say strict responsibility since the act infringes on the rights of others.

If its not anarchy, its just a slogan, not a category
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Old 10-03-2010, 05:29 PM   #49
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IMHO Libertarians are anarchists who believe in magic fairy dust.
Well, it would be in everyone's best interest to define just what sort of libertarian we are discussing. There's a wide selection of libertarian belief systems and philosophies to choose from, ranging from the rare and endangered left-wing libertarian, through the Heinlein variety, to the very pinnacle of the Atlas libertarians.



Me? Hee hee hee...

Where's Porky?
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Old 10-03-2010, 05:43 PM   #50
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Or, we have . . .


I hear Porky warming up. "Beat it, pig! Nothing happnin here, just a little clean fun!"
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Old 10-04-2010, 03:21 PM   #51
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Taxonomists do not define words. they classify things
That's EXACTLY what I told my friend the other day. He said that a taxonomist was someone who stuffed dead animals, and that he'd known one who mounted a beaver. I stopped him right there and told him that a taxonomist was someone who classified things--usually using words very precisely, since there's no point in putting things into bins if you don't define the bins well. Using words.
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Old 10-04-2010, 03:58 PM   #52
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That's EXACTLY what I told my friend the other day. He said that a taxonomist was someone who stuffed dead animals, and that he'd known one who mounted a beaver. I stopped him right there and told him that a taxonomist was someone who classified things--usually using words very precisely, since there's no point in putting things into bins if you don't define the bins well. Using words.
Defining and classifying are not the same thing. You have made the common mistake of assuming that bins are the only system of classification i.e. something goes into one bin or another. Binning is routine in biological classification since tree branching is the way of nature. but it is not the norm in human created items. Most taxonomic classifications are properly matrices, and routinely have a teleological component. I.e. is a baseball bat a "weapon" ? All the false claims of precision in language do not help answer the question, since a definitonm that changes with the context is not a definition of the object.

Taxonomists are especially interested in cases where words are manipulated for political ends. E.g. a "fetus" is a biomedical word, a "person" is a legal word. an "unborn person" certainly is a synthentic piece of political cant. Now language is flexible and changes so it may become a proper word. But flexibility and change in language means precision in language is an illusion.

The proper question is WHY do you need to call a baseball bat a weapon or not? What is the context? This is not a matter of definition, but classification . Routinely we find that we have to create complex multi attribute classification systems called matrices. A baseball bat is a weapon in some cases and not others. The reason for matrix classification is that word descriptions of complex items or situations are necessarily imprecise.

Reification is the error of confusing the word and or its definition and the underlying assertion of reality. It was described most effectively in the area of IQ testing.
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Old 10-04-2010, 04:13 PM   #53
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Is there a topic here?

Oh, yeah, loud commercials.

I was watching something after midnight in a fit of insomnia and the commercials were so loud that even when I turned the sound all the way down I could hear them.
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Old 10-04-2010, 04:25 PM   #54
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. . . But flexibility and change in language means precision in language is an illusion.
From the master:

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"The difference between the almost right word & the right word is really a large matter--it's the difference between the lightning bug and the lightning."
- Mark Twain, 1888
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Old 10-04-2010, 04:45 PM   #55
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Is there a topic here?
Who cares?

Are you bringing more popcorn or a talking pig?
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Old 10-04-2010, 04:55 PM   #56
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Who cares?

Are you bringing more popcorn or a talking pig?
I knew it had something to do with lots and lots of words that looked like they were being spoken very loudly but I didn't want to get popcorn butter on the mute button....
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Old 10-04-2010, 04:58 PM   #57
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From the master:

and "mounted a beaver" is precise? or "stuffed dead animals" ?


QED
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Old 10-04-2010, 05:14 PM   #58
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To heck with the law; what is the punishment if found guilty?

Maybe several hours strapped in a chair, listening to ambulance chasing personal injury lawyer commercials...
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Old 10-04-2010, 07:33 PM   #59
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Please, turn up the commercials! I need to drown out the noise!
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Old 10-04-2010, 07:55 PM   #60
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Who cares?

Are you bringing more popcorn or a talking pig?
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