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Old 08-20-2011, 06:38 PM   #161
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Help I am trapped under the zucchini and squash plants. Bushels of tomatoes in my future
If you show me YOUR tomatoes, I'll show you MINE.
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Old 08-20-2011, 07:55 PM   #162
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We just had 4 ripe tomatoes from 1 of the bush tomato varieties, sliced with salt and pepper. Wow! ....... Still waiting on those garlic scapes. I moved my green onions and Italian parsley into my indoor 10 gal aquarium with the grow light. It was too hot outside for both of them.
There's nothing like summer tomatoes! Wow is right!

As to the scapes, I think we discussed this but I can't recall. I'm not an expert but I do know something about gardening and alliums, I have grown garlic and onions for years. Garlic, I suspect, is the same as onions in that they form their bulbs during the longest days of the year. Assuming that is true for garlic, because garlic does form bulbs at that time, I question whether you'll get scapes or bulbs to form this late. For example, if you planted onions now you'd get greens but you wouldn't get a bulb to form.

Keep us posted, I'm curious what will happen.
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Old 08-20-2011, 08:10 PM   #163
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There's nothing like summer tomatoes! Wow is right!

As to the scapes, I think we discussed this but I can't recall. I'm not an expert but I do know something about gardening and alliums, I have grown garlic and onions for years. Garlic, I suspect, is the same as onions in that they form their bulbs during the longest days of the year. Assuming that is true for garlic, because garlic does form bulbs at that time, I question whether you'll get scapes or bulbs to form this late. For example, if you planted onions now you'd get greens but you wouldn't get a bulb to form.

Keep us posted, I'm curious what will happen.
I certainly will.
My guess is that I will end up with nice large single cloves of garlic, which is not a bad thing considering that I used grocery store garlic cloves as "seed". Each clove that had a green sprout on it got planted. The rest I used in the kitchen.
My "real" garlic bed in the back ground garden is overgrown with weeds and needs to be redone and replenished with some good stuff. Fall is the time when I will get out there and kick some b*tt get my real garden back under control.
I plan to hire a young man (he helped with wood carrying last year) to help me with that. He can do the pulling of the biggest weeds and then do the tilling for me.
In the spring, I will cover it all with 3 mil black plastic so the weeds do not re-emerge. Then I will plant some blueberry bushes, transfer existing blackberries, and perhaps put in a few cold hardy fruit trees. I will use landscape cloth around the fruit plantings, leaving the black plastic everywhere else. I also plan to put in some perennial cutting flowers just for fun.
All veggies will be grown in containers from here forward.
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Old 08-21-2011, 09:27 AM   #164
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If you show me YOUR tomatoes, I'll show you MINE.
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Old 08-21-2011, 09:46 AM   #165
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I have had some garden "invaders" lately - tomato horn worms and pickleworms (on my cucumbers). I've been able to keep the horn worms under control by picking them off (nasty buggers), but the pickleworms have completely destroyed my cucumber plants. Had to cut them down today and throw all 4 plants away. So sad!

I've planted some lettuce for a fall crop. My thai basil and regular basil are doing fantastic, and my pepper plants are really going to town. Tomato plants have almost taken over the entire back deck, it seems, and we are getting lots of ripe ones now.

I think I have saved my squash plant. I cut off the root/stem completely where it appears the squash borer got it...stuck the healthy part of the vine in the dirt (read this is an old gardener's trick)...and amazingly it has come back! I have a nice big flower on it today.
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Old 08-21-2011, 03:52 PM   #166
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I used grocery store garlic cloves as "seed".
Oh, well virtually all grocery store garlic is softneck and that type does not send up scapes though sometimes softnecks grown in the north can produce a small scape, garlic is a weird plant. Garlic used to come from Gilroy Ca but now most seems to be from China.

If you remember there being a hard stem in the center of the bulb around which the cloves grew then that was a hardneck type but I suspect it was a softneck.

Hardnecks produce scapes, softnecks don't.
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Old 08-21-2011, 03:59 PM   #167
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but the pickleworms have completely destroyed my cucumber plants. Had to cut them down today and throw all 4 plants away. So sad!
I'm not familiar with pickleworms so I Googled it. If you knew the PW were there you could have sprayed BT on the plants to kill the PW. BT is an organic pesticide that kills caterpillars by shutting down their digestive system, actually it creates crystals in their gut cutting it open and they poison themselves. Once they eat the leaves that have BT on them they immediately stop feeding and die within a couple of days. BT is sold under different names one being Dipel. I use the liquid concentrate. Be careful spraying it because it kills all caterpillars including butterfly cats. Since you have PW I'd get some BT for the next plants you grow.
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Old 08-21-2011, 04:44 PM   #168
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I'm not familiar with pickleworms so I Googled it. If you knew the PW were there you could have sprayed BT on the plants to kill the PW. BT is an organic pesticide that kills caterpillars by shutting down their digestive system, actually it creates crystals in their gut cutting it open and they poison themselves. Once they eat the leaves that have BT on them they immediately stop feeding and die within a couple of days. BT is sold under different names one being Dipel. I use the liquid concentrate. Be careful spraying it because it kills all caterpillars including butterfly cats. Since you have PW I'd get some BT for the next plants you grow.
Thanks - good to know! I had googled it as well, but this website said:

Pickleworms
"The only reliable control of Pickleworms is cool weather. There are pesticides that will kill them, but the amounts and type of pesticides are all harsh and are not recommended. The best way to grow cucurbits in areas prone to infestation is to start them early and harvest before early June."

So I gave up when I read that. However, I just looked a bit closer at the bt stuff...I definitely will try it next year to see if I can prevent infestation in August...once they get in the cuc's, though, the fruit is lost:

Natural Insecticides: Pickleworm Information | Garden Guides
Spraying flowers with beneficial nematodes once a week is helpful, because the nematodes can survive in the damp enclosed areas of the flowers and attack pickleworms feeding there.

Use of bacterial sprays (Bacillus thuringiensis, Saccharopolyspora spinosa) can also kill pickleworms if they eat the treated flowers and leaves. These sprays cannot kill pickleworms burrowing in fruits and stems.
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Old 08-21-2011, 08:34 PM   #169
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Gee this pickleworm sounds like one bad critter.

As I said I never heard of them and took a shot at recommending Bt because it effectively kills all caterpillars. When I started to read the 2 links you provided I started to think maybe Bt wouldn't work but then I saw it suggested it.

If you know the approximate time they appear then I'd start to spray to check it immediately before they get a head start. As long as you get the Bt into the flowers which is where they seem to like to go to feed then all they need to do is eat any part of the flower or cuke that has BT on it.

Spray in the morning after dew has evaporated and things are dry. Bt is washed off by rain and breaks down after a few days by sun light. You need to mix a fresh batch each time, don't store it made.

The liquid concentrate lasts forever as long as you store it in a cool dark place. I'm still using a bottle I bought in the early 90's that I keep in the basement. A 16 oz container will cost about $12 to $15. 1 teaspoon makes 1 quart tho they say 1-2 tsp per quart of water but I always use 1 tsp to 1 quart of water. Very effective against horn worms too.


edited to add - Use of bacterial sprays (Bacillus thuringiensis, Saccharopolyspora spinosa) can also kill pickleworms if they eat the treated flowers and leaves. These sprays cannot kill pickleworms burrowing in fruits and stems.

BTW, Bacillus thuringiensis is Bt.
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Old 08-21-2011, 09:34 PM   #170
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Gee this pickleworm sounds like one bad critter.

As I said I never heard of them and took a shot at recommending Bt because it effectively kills all caterpillars. When I started to read the 2 links you provided I started to think maybe Bt wouldn't work but then I saw it suggested it.

If you know the approximate time they appear then I'd start to spray to check it immediately before they get a head start. As long as you get the Bt into the flowers which is where they seem to like to go to feed then all they need to do is eat any part of the flower or cuke that has BT on it.

Spray in the morning after dew has evaporated and things are dry. Bt is washed off by rain and breaks down after a few days by sun light. You need to mix a fresh batch each time, don't store it made.

The liquid concentrate lasts forever as long as you store it in a cool dark place. I'm still using a bottle I bought in the early 90's that I keep in the basement. A 16 oz container will cost about $12 to $15. 1 teaspoon makes 1 quart tho they say 1-2 tsp per quart of water but I always use 1 tsp to 1 quart of water. Very effective against horn worms too.


edited to add - Use of bacterial sprays (Bacillus thuringiensis, Saccharopolyspora spinosa) can also kill pickleworms if they eat the treated flowers and leaves. These sprays cannot kill pickleworms burrowing in fruits and stems.

BTW, Bacillus thuringiensis is Bt.
Thank you - and AWESOME that it works against horn worms, too - 2 for 1 deal! BTW, if you read more about pickleworms, you'll see they get killed by winter, except in Florida...they gradually migrate northward every year. How the heck they found my little garden on the back of my deck is amazing to me!
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Old 09-12-2011, 11:20 AM   #171
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Oh, well virtually all grocery store garlic is softneck and that type does not send up scapes though sometimes softnecks grown in the north can produce a small scape, garlic is a weird plant. Garlic used to come from Gilroy Ca but now most seems to be from China.

If you remember there being a hard stem in the center of the bulb around which the cloves grew then that was a hardneck type but I suspect it was a softneck.

Hardnecks produce scapes, softnecks don't.
Just saw this post today. Thanks for the reminder about softneck garlic being scape-less.
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Old 09-12-2011, 11:27 AM   #172
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My container garden is almost done producing for the year.
I picked and froze 5 quart bags of filet bush beans for the winter. There are still more to pick out there. Amazing bean production in a single Earthbox!
I still have a large bowl of fresh tomatoes in the frig, awaiting the next BACON, tomato and mayo on toast session.
My oregano, parsley, scallions and basil are still growing beautifully and will be wintered over indoors under grow lights.
Today might a good day to clear the Earthboxes of withered cuke and pea plants and move them into the screened porch before the rain arrives later today. I may plant 1 more round of sugar snap peas. Maybe even a cucumber or two just for fun. They just might produce for me before the snow flies .
Garlic never produced scapes, but I bet I have some nice large bulbs out there. I will dig one up and check it out.

So nice to be able to w*rk outdoors again without overheating.
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Old 09-12-2011, 11:48 AM   #173
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...Garlic never produced scapes, but I bet I have some nice large bulbs out there. I will dig one up and check it out.
And now...the rest of the story...
I dug up 2 garlic plants. The original clove is intact with beautiful root systems. The garlic tops are just starting to turn a little brown on the edges.
Perhaps my best bet is to let the tops die down a little more, trim them back to soil level and winter them over inside the protection of my plexiglas paneled porch. I will place a thick layer of leaf or grass clippings mulch over the soil surface and arrange the other 2 Earthboxes as flanking cold protection.
I've had volunteers (left behind cloves in the ground garden) develop into medium size garlic heads with divided cloves in past years, so perhaps these will do same in the Earthbox. Maybe not.
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Old 09-12-2011, 11:49 AM   #174
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I planted my fall crops a few weeks ago: lettuce, broccoli, and brussel sprouts. YUM! And my thai basil continues to overfloweth!
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Old 09-12-2011, 12:03 PM   #175
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Gorgeous basil.

My basil is getting there. It is still growing in upright single plants (not bushy) minus the top clippings I've been taking all summer. I'll give it a rest for a week or two and let it grow out some more.

Glad to see you are still doing planting. It is fun isn't it?
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Old 09-12-2011, 12:20 PM   #176
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Glad to see you are still doing planting. It is fun isn't it?
Love it! My garden is my refuge!
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Old 09-12-2011, 12:24 PM   #177
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Your garden looks great simple girl. That basil is gorgeous. Let us know how the broccoli turns out, I have never tried it.
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Old 09-12-2011, 01:35 PM   #178
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You guys have great stuff. My containers are done for the year. Still have bushels of tomatoes.
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Old 09-13-2011, 12:38 AM   #179
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And now...the rest of the story...
I dug up 2 garlic plants. The original clove is intact with beautiful root systems. The garlic tops are just starting to turn a little brown on the edges.
Perhaps my best bet is to let the tops die down a little more, trim them back to soil level and winter them over inside the protection of my plexiglas paneled porch. I will place a thick layer of leaf or grass clippings mulch over the soil surface and arrange the other 2 Earthboxes as flanking cold protection.
I've had volunteers (left behind cloves in the ground garden) develop into medium size garlic heads with divided cloves in past years, so perhaps these will do same in the Earthbox. Maybe not.
I have no idea what will happen leaving the garlic over winter come spring, garlic in the wild does this so it may well grow again.

The reason the volunteers did great for you is they were "planted" in the fall by virtue of being left behind and grew as normal come spring. Fall is the time to plant garlic though IIRC Silverskins can be planted in the spring and develop a decent bulb, all other types really should be fall planted.

Quote:
I still have a large bowl of fresh tomatoes in the frig
Tomatoes should not be put into the fridge because the cold damages the flavor compounds. Leave tomatoes on the counter.

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I may plant 1 more round of sugar snap peas. Maybe even a cucumber or two just for fun. They just might produce for me before the snow flies .
There is not enough time to grow peas, the days are getting short and by mid September everything growing in the garden starts to slow down noticeably. And as far as cukes, there is not a chance in the world that they'll do anything other than sprout and grow an inch or so. Cukes have already started to die if not dead from the lack of long days, strong sun and heat. By mid September cukes are done for the season. If you are inside a porch or greenhouse you can offset the cold but the sun is just too weak to grow most anything except greens at this point. Cukes are tropical fruits that require hot temperatures and strong sun light. The gardening season is basically over except for the final ripening of some things.
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Old 09-19-2011, 09:09 PM   #180
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It will be interesting to see what happens with the containers when I move them inside my plexiglased porch.
The pea, spinach and cucumber seeds I recently planted in the containers were 2010 vintage, i.e. I would have discarded them anyway. I am leaving them outside until they sprout so they get some sun before relocation.
It's fun to experiment...
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