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Re: Corporations going overseas (split from Senator Wyden...)
Old 12-19-2006, 01:08 PM   #21
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Re: Corporations going overseas (split from Senator Wyden...)

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Originally Posted by youbet
I only wish the Dems would be less hypocritical about their position on the minimum wage. They say they support the concept. They say they want it raised. Then they turn around and propose a pathetically small increase! What's the point? People receiving the new minimum will still be impoverished.
Last I checked they didn't have a veto-proof majority. Unlike the rethuglicans of the last several years, they have to consider the ther side's wishes to get things done.
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Re: Corporations going overseas (split from Senator Wyden...)
Old 12-19-2006, 01:20 PM   #22
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Re: Corporations going overseas (split from Senator Wyden...)

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Gimme a break. This pathetic example has nothing to do with outsourcing to China. Are we going to order our fast food from overseas?
You're scarin' me, man. You're already predicting the future.

Wendy's & McDonalds have been testing call centers to handle their drive-through orders at selected franchise sites. McDonald's has been doing it for nearly two years.

It's only a matter of time until a different sort of Brahmin "Bob" from Bangalore Boston handles your burger order...

(Hey, Astro, how 'bout that literate alliterative reference?)
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Re: Corporations going overseas (split from Senator Wyden...)
Old 12-19-2006, 01:25 PM   #23
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Re: Corporations going overseas (split from Senator Wyden...)

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Originally Posted by brewer12345
Last I checked they didn't have a veto-proof majority. Unlike the rethuglicans of the last several years, they have to consider the ther side's wishes to get things done.
I don't buy that at all brewer........ The GOP is a lost cause on the minimum wage issue, no doubt. But the Dems seem less honest about it. Instead of just saying they're against it, they support it half-heartedly proposing a modest increase which will leave the recipients impoverished.
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Re: Corporations going overseas (split from Senator Wyden...)
Old 12-19-2006, 01:44 PM   #24
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Re: Corporations going overseas (split from Senator Wyden...)

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Originally Posted by youbet
I don't buy that at all brewer........ The GOP is a lost cause on the minimum wage issue, no doubt. But the Dems seem less honest about it. Instead of just saying they're against it, they support it half-heartedly proposing a modest increase which will leave the recipients impoverished.
Right, right, I forgot. Its no longer "all Clinton's fault." Now its that the new Democrats are just plain dishonest, gosh darn it. If only we had Tom Delay back - there was a paragon of (Republican) virtue.
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Re: Corporations going overseas (split from Senator Wyden...)
Old 12-19-2006, 02:07 PM   #25
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Re: Corporations going overseas (split from Senator Wyden...)

Personally, I think the idea that human labor should have a minimum value is a good one. The trick is in implementing it in a way that doesn't distort the market and result in negative side-effects like less jobs.

To me, the problem is that we're trying to jam what is essentially a government mandated transfer payment into the market system. I wonder about the idea of making the minimum wage a tax credit where the government does the subsidy directly through the tax code (like the earned income tax credit). There would be some added reporting on the part of employers (maybe adding hours worked to the W2), but it could be pretty minimal. In the end, taxpayers will pay for it, why not make it more of a direct payment so the market system doesn't get perverted by it.

At the margins, capital and labor can be and are often substituted. If we increase the cost of labor with a minumum wage that's above the market wage, employment will drop as other alternatives (outsourcing/use of automation) become viable.

As an extreme example, while I was doing a volunteer stint in Cambodia, I watched a modern 5 story building go up next to my apartment without a single piece of heavy construction equipment. Every morning, hundreds of workers descended on the building site to erect the structure. I suspect things like concrete mixers and pumps, cranes, and the like were just not worth it when labor, buckets, and shovels could be had for a couple bucks a day. As wages go up, more and more jobs become cheaper to do with machinery rather than human labor.

Anyhow, just a thought...

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Re: Corporations going overseas (split from Senator Wyden...)
Old 12-19-2006, 02:13 PM   #26
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Re: Corporations going overseas (split from Senator Wyden...)

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Originally Posted by Nords
You're scarin' me, man. You're already predicting the future.

Wendy's & McDonalds have been testing call centers to handle their drive-through orders at selected franchise sites. McDonald's has been doing it for nearly two years.

It's only a matter of time until a different sort of Brahmin "Bob" from Bangalore Boston handles your burger order...

(Hey, Astro, how 'bout that literate alliterative reference?)
Alright, you got me wit that one -- we are now officially ordering our fast food from overseas. But we won't get it delivered until we event the transporter. And when that happens we will all be happy one worlders.
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Re: Corporations going overseas (split from Senator Wyden...)
Old 12-19-2006, 03:55 PM   #27
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Re: Corporations going overseas (split from Senator Wyden...)

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Originally Posted by brewer12345
Right, right, I forgot. Its no longer "all Clinton's fault."
Is to... :P

I remember, a few years back, my uncle commenting that McDonalds in Indy were offering signing bonuses to attract workers.
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Re: Corporations going overseas (split from Senator Wyden...)
Old 12-19-2006, 04:27 PM   #28
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Re: Corporations going overseas (split from Senator Wyden...)

Interesting rants and comments.... let me add mine

I support the minimum wage. It probably has little impact on the jobs that moved overseas as those were higher paying jobs (maybe except for textiles)...

We are now seeing the white collar jobs moving, but again, we can compete as right now the productivity is still higher in the US..

I saw something from George Will that said every quarter (I believe he said quarter and not year) 1 of every 13 jobs is destroyed, but there is a bit more than 1 job created to replace it. Now, the wages and benefits of that new job might be a Wal-Mart greeter, but might be a higher paid technician that fixes the machine...

I doubt there are many people that had the same job their whole career. I know that over the last 13 years at my current company I have had 8 different jobs.. and 4 of them have been 'destroyed'.
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Re: Corporations going overseas (split from Senator Wyden...)
Old 12-19-2006, 04:37 PM   #29
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Re: Corporations going overseas (split from Senator Wyden...)

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Originally Posted by Jay_Gatsby
Naturally, there are fewer individuals in the U.S. capable of performing the latter types of jobs, thereby triggering the law of supply and demand. This is where education comes into play. The U.S. education system cannot keep up with the demand for high-level talent at a reasonable cost, forcing many U.S. companies to immediately look for new workers overseas, rather than first look for new workers at home.
Hmmm. That is a very interesting take on the whole offshoring issue. It definately makes the assumption that the American market could not handle fullfilling the necessary jobs at a lower rate of pay. But why would that be? You said the US education system could not keep up with the demand for high-level talent....that theory astonishes me! It certainly doesn't say much for our public education system...

The conservative in me would think that the employers could not find talent at the right price, not because people weren't available to fill the positions, but because people were not willing to accept the market rate of pay for the available jobs. So, from a conservative point of view, fixing the problem would require either the prospective workers to accept the lower pay, or the corporations to adjust salaries and pass the costs onto consumers in the form of inflation. From a marketing standpoint, and the point of view of a corporation, it would make more sense to avoid passing on costs to consumers and go for the employees that will take the lower pay. Apparently if there is so much talent overseas that will accept the lower pay, then the overseas market is dictating the market price for those positions, meaning that Americans who want those jobs would have to accept the lower rate of pay or remain unemployed. If Americans refuse to take the lower rate of pay for the position, 'the market rate", then it is their CHOICE to remain unemployed.
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Re: Corporations going overseas (split from Senator Wyden...)
Old 12-19-2006, 05:24 PM   #30
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Re: Corporations going overseas (split from Senator Wyden...)

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Originally Posted by Nords
the difficulty of attracting quality employees in a time of record-low unemployment,
I'm confused. Are you complaining about record-low unemployment here?

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Originally Posted by brewer12345
How exactly do you plan on "fixing" the root cause of higher material prices? The oil and gas fairy? Start up a volcano to create more real estate off the coast of California?
Well, I would start thinking outside of the box. For one, we could concentrate on technology and innovation and utilizing other forms of energy that are not in such low supply....

And as far as real estate goes, well, that's just the way it goes when there is overcrowding and not enough land. When people can't afford to live there anymore, they will move to states with a lower cost of living. As long as there are enough people who live there that can afford it, the cost is probably not going to come down.
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Re: Corporations going overseas (split from Senator Wyden...)
Old 12-19-2006, 05:40 PM   #31
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Re: Corporations going overseas (split from Senator Wyden...)

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Originally Posted by magellan
Personally, I think the idea that human labor should have a minimum value is a good one. The trick is in implementing it in a way that doesn't distort the market and result in negative side-effects like less jobs.
My thoughts, exactly!
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Re: Corporations going overseas (split from Senator Wyden...)
Old 12-19-2006, 11:46 PM   #32
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Re: Corporations going overseas (split from Senator Wyden...)

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Originally Posted by brewer12345
new Democrats are just plain dishonest, gosh darn it.
Well, yeah, I guess if you say so......
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