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Old 05-11-2010, 11:32 AM   #21
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Old 05-11-2010, 11:50 AM   #22
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2) If you are in countdown mode NOW, please share how far away are you from your ER date. Share your thoughts, motivations, frustrations, fears, anxieties, strategies for staying focused on how to make ER happen for you. Are you from time to time just obsessed with thoughts about ER? Are you doing things in your free time to help expedite actual ER, i.e., cleaning/fixing up your house for sale or to move, etc.? Are you planning to work parttime in ER?

Thank you all. My situation is I still have 4 and 1/2 years left to ER and I am feeling so impatient because my work situation has gotten too stressful that many days I just feel like ER now and worry about not having enough money later but I am still working. I am trying to find ways to make the next 4 and 1/2 years more bearable. Please lend me your support in anyway that you'd like.
We are closing in on being able to ER. With average market returns we are still about 5 years out though (assuming the government public health care deal remains substantially intact). No date is set - it really depends on when we are ready, where we are at in 5 years, how the stock market performs, and how much of a cushion we want in our portfolio.

As a result we are not counting down since we don't know if it will be four years, five years, 7 years, or more. I try not to really spend too much time dwelling on waiting for ER, even though it is an inescapable part of defining where I am in life and where I am headed. In the meantime, I try to stay pretty busy living life for these next 4, 5, or 7+ years. You only get 1 shot at life after all.

In terms of planning, I have recently started tracking our expenses very closely to see what we are spending. I have also thought about semi-ER by going part time at my current employer, or a new employer if the current employer isn't interested in retaining me. For cash flow reasons, I am thinking more about focusing on paying down the mortgage (about 7 years left). We roughly triple the payment each month right now. I have an adjustable rate loan to save on interest expense, knowing I'll pay it off before it can adjust higher than what my fixed rate was before.

DW and I still have young kids that are about to start school this year and next, so thinking about the impacts of school and kids is in my mind too. We may do a year long trip around the world including homeschooling the kids, and that would probably fit in best when the kids are on the younger end (pre-HS), so we have a narrow time range between FIRE and the oldest starting HS.

As to your comment that you have 4 1/2 years left and think about quitting but not having enough money - could you go part time, or take a year or two off for a sabbatical? I have just got into the groove of focusing on what my jobs gives me the most of - a paycheck. I put up with a certain amount of jackasses and BS in exchange for a solid paycheck 2x a month. I am not looking for things at work to make sense, or to gain any psychic rewards, or win any trophies or get a gold watch or anything. Just a paycheck. A paycheck that will hopefully grow over time. And occasional bonuses.
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Old 05-11-2010, 05:48 PM   #23
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I have a few different possible dates and know my outside limit is ~5 years. A great deal depends on job satisfaction, remuneration and health between now and then. But one possible goal is 2013, because I will be eligible for a retention bonus if I stay till the end of 2012.

Someone said they had made a spreadsheet, so I just did the same. It tells me that December 31, 2012 is 966 days away; 30 June 2013 is 1147 days away; 30 June 2015 is 1877 days away, and I don't think I want to wait that long!

I may start formally counting on October 5th when 30 June 2013 is 1000 days away. 999 sounds so much more achievable!
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Old 05-11-2010, 08:25 PM   #24
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I started my countdown about two years out. The only problem was the closer the day got the slower the days seemed to go. I started mowing lawns and delivering papers at 8 years old and was the projectionist at the local theater at 12; since then I have been without a job for 6 months. I was ready to retire at 60.
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Old 05-11-2010, 11:15 PM   #25
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Please everyone! Please write and share with me your thoughts, comments, and advice--especially of the pep talk category. I welcome anything and everything on the topic of counting down to ER.

For starters, the following are what I am hoping to hear from you all on:

1) If you have succeeded at ER, can you share with me when you started to seriously "counting down" to the date when you ER? How many years out before your actual ER date? How did you feel during those years or months as you saved up your stash and counted down to THE DAY? Did you feel excited? Impatient wanting to just ER with less money but ER sooner? Did you like your job more or less because you were in countdown mode? Did you spend most of your free time fixing up your house, getting rid of extra stuff in yard sale, to downsize your home, or whatever else besides saving and investing in order to expedite your ER? How did you motivate yourself to stay on track and to not go into your boss's office to give your notice before you have saved up enough for a secure ER? Were you from time to time just obsessed with thoughts about ER?

2) If you are in countdown mode NOW, please share how far away are you from your ER date. Share your thoughts, motivations, frustrations, fears, anxieties, strategies for staying focused on how to make ER happen for you. Are you from time to time just obsessed with thoughts about ER? Are you doing things in your free time to help expedite actual ER, i.e., cleaning/fixing up your house for sale or to move, etc.? Are you planning to work parttime in ER?

Thank you all. My situation is I still have 4 and 1/2 years left to ER and I am feeling so impatient because my work situation has gotten too stressful that many days I just feel like ER now and worry about not having enough money later but I am still working. I am trying to find ways to make the next 4 and 1/2 years more bearable. Please lend me your support in anyway that you'd like.

Thank you everyone so much!

Retire 2014
A couple of random comments and replies:

  • I'm nearly 41 and will probably hit FI about age 45. I've been keeping track of my potential FI date since at least January 2007, and I've been spreadsheeting for probably five years before that. I wouldn't call it a count down yet since I don't really watch the number go down; I just monitor where I am and where that FI date is at the moment.
  • As someone else said, if you're too focused on the retirement date and "surviving", you're probably not in a good spot. I was there for a while a few months ago. What I realized was that (a) I was wasting my life stressing about getting to FI and not enjoying the journey -- you can be focused and still enjoy the journey, (b) I needed to make some changes in my life to be more content now -- so I have been, and (c) obsessing over FIRE doesn't make the date come any sooner.
  • I measure my progress six ways to Sunday. I track net worth, FI net worth, withdrawal rate if I were to quit today, days to FI, months to FI, actual work days to FI, plus some other numbers. That way I can hit a milestone of some sort or another about once every five minutes : - ).
  • While I am waiting for FI to arrive, I realize there's stuff I can do now. I have my bucket list -- who says I can't check off some of those items now? Nobody. And the items I can't check off because they are logistically challenging with a job only serve to motivate me and give me something to look forward to other than "not working".
  • As far as quitting early, I don't plan to. I've set a goal (FI), I know how to measure that goal. There is a very clear tradeoff in my mind between quitting before FI and what that means. I'm not willing to make that tradeoff, so I keep working.
  • My plan is to get to my FI point and then see how I feel. If I want to keep working, I will. If I want to switch jobs, I can. If I want to quit, I can. For me it is having the option that is important.
  • In my spare time I do some prep work for RE, but not much. I've gotten rid of some stuff, but that is more of a general move towards minimalism. I do bank bonuses in an effort to earn a few $ on the side.
HTH,

2Cor521
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Old 06-01-2010, 11:25 AM   #26
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About 2650 days, so a little over 7 years out....


I spent most of my free time checking to see how my portfolio was doing compared with my projections (and doing and re-doing various projections), and investigating potential retirement locations online (plus spending all of our vacations checking them out in real life).
See, this is why I'm glad I found this forum. I am 2557 days out - June 1, 2017. I thought planning this far ahead was crazy but now I know I am not alone.

I am in the "obsessed about my projections" stage. I am trying to be as conservative as possible while trying various options (work part time, take tax deferred money first, when to take pension, etc.) I now have a giant spreadsheet with all sorts of different ways to make ER happen. Perhaps the biggest trouble is that I am now confident that I can retire very early, probably now and definitely in about 3 years. So staying motivated to make long term investment in my career is largely gone.

For me the biggest issue at this stage is visualizing what I want retirement to be like. There are a few things I want to do, a few trips to make, but for the most part I don't have a clear picture of what I will actually do each day. I'm not overly concerned about it though, about 8 years ago I took 3 years off to get a PhD. Filling my days was not a problem! And'm not talking about school, about 9 months of that 3 years was after I had finished but before I started back to work. It was a great time to explore a few hobbies and it taught me that I could easily live on very little without actually sacrificing. I had save up for the time off and after 3 years my net savings had gone up, largely because I was teaching college classes for "fun" so I have income I did not anticipate. I suspect I will do the same thing in retirement.
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Old 06-01-2010, 01:09 PM   #27
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I did my first Retirement plan 18 years before I took Emeritus status. We had renovated our home and finally several pay increases had come through. I knew that whatever happened our kids would go to college and we would never lose the house. We had to decide whether to refinance or just pay off the short term high interest construction loans. We paid off the loans and then began aggressively investing. (We both have government pensions). We tweaked the plan repeatedly but it never really changed. We saved money for rainy days that have not happened so we have no complaints. `DW will "retire" in 2012, although she will likely go back as a consultant to her agency.
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Old 06-01-2010, 01:22 PM   #28
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DW and I still have young kids that are about to start school this year and next, so thinking about the impacts of school and kids is in my mind too. .
I don't know whether to be impressed or depressed
Our deal with our kids was it was their job to do well in school and our job to make sure that money did not prevent them from getting first class educations. The older one is finishing a molecular biology Ph.D. and the younger one just graduated from law school. Both went to State Universities for BS degrees and had scholarships, but the cost of putting them through school was quite large. I just talked with a neighbor who paid the full freight through Northwestern and George Washington law and the total was $375,000.
So what do we owe our kids? Mine paid only a very small portion of my education. I paid the rest and was many years paying it off on a civil servant's salary. Tuitoon is far higher today relative to the same salary
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Old 06-01-2010, 01:57 PM   #29
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I don't know whether to be impressed or depressed
Our deal with our kids was it was their job to do well in school and our job to make sure that money did not prevent them from getting first class educations. The older one is finishing a molecular biology Ph.D. and the younger one just graduated from law school. Both went to State Universities for BS degrees and had scholarships, but the cost of putting them through school was quite large. I just talked with a neighbor who paid the full freight through Northwestern and George Washington law and the total was $375,000.
So what do we owe our kids? Mine paid only a very small portion of my education. I paid the rest and was many years paying it off on a civil servant's salary. Tuitoon is far higher today relative to the same salary
We are targeting having enough saved to pay roughly all their tuition at a state school for four years, plus a little money for books and maybe a study abroad stint or two. Room and board and "misc" will have to come from their savings, loans, part time and/or summer work, scholarships, stipends, grants, research, etc. And we live near two excellent state schools, so depending on their demeanor and DW's and my demeanor in 13 years, they may be able to live at home and attend college. Or we may have enough excess cash flow (with good stock markets) to help out more than planned.

Grad school - they will likely be on their own for the most part, unless we really hit it big in the stock market. But many educational tracks are available at low cost (at state schools) and there are loans. In the masters and PhD technical educational fields there are many schools offering research or teaching assistant gigs that, along with stipends and scholarships, can make graduate studies rather profitable for the young inquiring mind. I almost entered a graduate program in engineering that would have netted me over $30k a year for a 9 month per year gig (10 years ago). More than the State was paying for entry level engineers at the time (when adjusting for only working 9 months vs 12) and I would have earned a degree.

If, on the other hand, my children desire a bachelors and a graduate/professional degree from a private school (like Northwestern and Georgetown) then I would expect their decision to be sound on a financial basis. If it costs $375,000 (in today's dollars) to get the necessary degrees, then I would expect their chosen career path to be something that is highly lucrative. It would have to be a lot more lucrative than whatever alternative career trajectory they could obtain at more affordable institutions of higher learning (like the two state schools nearby that offer virtually every degree program imaginable). And since they would be largely on the hook for the $375k, it would be a choice that they would have to make.

So what do we owe our kids? A good head start. But not bottomless coffers to fund life long education of any field they choose that interests them. My take on college is that it is instrumentally valuable in setting one up to earn a comfortable living which will allow one to pursue other interests throughout life beyond a day job. College is also intrinsically valuable for the life experiences and broadening of one's intellect and interest.
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Old 06-01-2010, 02:05 PM   #30
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I started thinking about this maybe 5 years ahead and got very serious about 18 months before retirement. I'm planning to retire July 2 of this year. I have spent the last year or so obsessing over spreadsheets and scenarios and other things like that, to convince myself I had enough money. I'll be 62 in a few weeks.

Anyhow, I hate my job, I am only working for the paycheck, and the stress level has reached the point of no return. I plan to resign 2 weeks in advance, blame it on various legitimate issues (health, sudden death of a close friend, realization that I'm not immortal ) so that I don't burn any bridges. There are good reasons to do it this way.

However, I NEVER plan to work for anyone else again. OTOH, one never knows. I believe I will be okay if I am reasonable in my spending. That's not particularly hard for me. I have lots of hobbies and interests and have not had time or energy to do them in quite a while - my health actually has suffered tremendously from this job stress.

I have 23 more work days - or 31 days total... after today...
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Old 06-01-2010, 03:00 PM   #31
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I started thinking about this maybe 5 years ahead and got very serious about 18 months before retirement. I'm planning to retire July 2 of this year. I have spent the last year or so obsessing over spreadsheets and scenarios and other things like that, to convince myself I had enough money. I'll be 62 in a few weeks.

Anyhow, I hate my job, I am only working for the paycheck, and the stress level has reached the point of no return. I plan to resign 2 weeks in advance, blame it on various legitimate issues (health, sudden death of a close friend, realization that I'm not immortal ) so that I don't burn any bridges. There are good reasons to do it this way.

However, I NEVER plan to work for anyone else again. OTOH, one never knows. I believe I will be okay if I am reasonable in my spending. That's not particularly hard for me. I have lots of hobbies and interests and have not had time or energy to do them in quite a while - my health actually has suffered tremendously from this job stress.

I have 23 more work days - or 31 days total... after today...
Congratulations on your imminent retirement! Those 31 days will go by quickly. We are about the same age and I have not been retired long. It has been so much better than I had ever imagined. I, too, desire to never work for someone else again.
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Old 06-01-2010, 05:13 PM   #32
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So what do we owe our kids? A good head start. But not bottomless coffers to fund life long education of any field they choose that interests them. My take on college is that it is instrumentally valuable in setting one up to earn a comfortable living which will allow one to pursue other interests throughout life beyond a day job. College is also intrinsically valuable for the life experiences and broadening of one's intellect and interest.
35 years of teaching at a first class State University convinces me that for the right student they are perfect and certainly were perfect for my kids. But what the private high schools and colleges offer is a higher success rate with imperfect kids and and an enormous head start for the real achievers. Money does not buy success but it can be an insurance policy against disaster.
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Old 06-02-2010, 09:12 AM   #33
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35 years of teaching at a first class State University convinces me that for the right student they are perfect and certainly were perfect for my kids. But what the private high schools and colleges offer is a higher success rate with imperfect kids and and an enormous head start for the real achievers. Money does not buy success but it can be an insurance policy against disaster.
I think if my kids end up in that "imperfect kids" category, I might suggest something less intensive than a four year college straight out of high school. My first inclination would not be to pay five or six times the price at a private U for what may be many more than four years of schooling that may not end successfully anyway.

Of course I am biased by experience, since we do have access to two "first class State Universities" right here in town, and from an academic standpoint, the private schools don't really compete or are on equal footing. And I hold degrees from both "first class State U's"!
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Old 06-02-2010, 09:37 AM   #34
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I think if my kids end up in that "imperfect kids" category, I might suggest something less intensive than a four year college straight out of high school. My first inclination would not be to pay five or six times the price at a private U for what may be many more than four years of schooling that may not end successfully anyway.

Of course I am biased by experience, since we do have access to two "first class State Universities" right here in town, and from an academic standpoint, the private schools don't really compete or are on equal footing. And I hold degrees from both "first class State U's"!
The imperfections are rarely academic. And as tuition continues to increase at flagship state universities the difference is getting closer to 2 or 3-1 . What worries me about the state universities is that most state's commitment to excellence in the future for their State universities is ZERO ZIP NADA.

As I said my wife and I and my kids all did very well at State U. I just hope the same quality is here for the next generation.
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Old 06-02-2010, 09:41 AM   #35
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Congratulations on your imminent retirement! Those 31 days will go by quickly. We are about the same age and I have not been retired long. It has been so much better than I had ever imagined. I, too, desire to never work for someone else again.
Thanks - it should be an interesting transition. I'm not worried about being bored!
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Old 06-02-2010, 09:43 AM   #36
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The imperfections are rarely academic. And as tuition continues to increase at flagship state universities the difference is getting closer to 2 or 3-1 . What worries me about the state universities is that most state's commitment to excellence in the future for their State universities is ZERO ZIP NADA.

As I said my wife and I and my kids all did very well at State U. I just hope the same quality is here for the next generation.
Our ratios are still around 7:1 or 8:1 for undergrad, which is why I could not easily justify a private U. Maybe edging up to the 3:1 or even 2:1 range for some professional schools. State taxes are pretty high though, so we pay for the education one way or the other. The tuition itself is so cheap that it is dwarfed by living costs, books, extracurricular stuff, etc.

Yes, I hope states can keep up the quality of education at State U's. For many people, my family included, they have served as a springboard to allow us to jump a couple notches up the ladder.
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Old 06-03-2010, 03:06 PM   #37
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DW and I had the epiphany that ER was a viable goal seven years out, for us age 43. The working environment had gotten very negative for her, it became a matter of actually looking at what was possible. In hindsight, our pretty spur of the moment plan; would not have been very comfortable financially, but we were convinced mentally that we could do this if we concentrated on the prize at the end. Also this was about 1998 and we assumed hugely inflated returns on our investments outside of the DBP we were both counting on for basic expense coverage. Taking an out at the bare minimum age the system permitted (50) would leave us with a small fraction of what we were conditioned to spending, about 1/3 in my case. As it happens in all good plans they don't survive battle, but the essence was there, some really bad stuff happened, and one really good thing happened, and all the while our house was approaching the end of its mortgage. I stuck around until early 2006, still 50 but more like 50.75. I spent the last 3 years in a slightly better paying Management job that I didn't enjoy, but it helped the DBP calc a few points in my favor. I built a spreadsheet with all my up to the minute calculations and marveled at it on a daily basis. I preached to my coworker's about the wonders of FIRE and made a few converts during those last few years, but notably few. The majority had really never thought about it, didn't really want to think about it, didn't like being confronted with reality of it, and mostly assumed they had to work typically 5 to 10 years longer than I could show them they really needed to, much of that based on the information I'd gleaned from already being a member of this board for some time. My Supervisor was a sympathetic friend who was very supportive of my wish to get the heck out, and we would discuss ER all the time. Her reality was she already had many more years in than me, was a few years older, and still was going to hang around until she reached the magic 30 years plus one more to really cash in on a killer payout. I called her the mercenary and she would just smile back at me. Worked for her, her take home is more than DW and mine combined, but then she is single, and figured she'd need it. The only thing I would do different is start the forced savings the day I started my 23 years with the company, rather than playing catchup and never really succeeding. Some of the bad stuff I referred to has already wiped out that part of the equation. We are still hopeful that SS will give us combined about a $24K/year raise around 2018 to help with whatever stagnation our income has experienced over the first 12 years of FIRE. Overall, we easily meet expenses, have too many toys, and are content with our lot. Once could do worse.
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Old 06-03-2010, 09:06 PM   #38
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Thanks - it should be an interesting transition. I'm not worried about being bored!
Congratulations

I hope you don't mind, but I added your name to the 2010 ER class list

http://www.early-retirement.org/foru...e-49446-8.html
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Old 06-04-2010, 09:49 AM   #39
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Congratulations

I hope you don't mind, but I added your name to the 2010 ER class list

http://www.early-retirement.org/foru...e-49446-8.html
LOL! Nope, I don't mind although I don't see me on the list... ?
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Old 06-04-2010, 11:52 AM   #40
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LOL! Nope, I don't mind although I don't see me on the list... ?
really? You don't see yourself listed on post #145, just below tesaje ? - I added you to the list at 10:05pm yesterday.
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