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Old 03-18-2015, 05:34 PM   #101
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Luckily (?), DW and I each have a freeloading 40-something sibling that we can point to as examples of what we don't want to happen to them.
I've come to conclude that the old saying is true - some people exist solely to serve as an example to others.
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Old 03-18-2015, 05:51 PM   #102
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We have not just four, but enough Yorkshiremen here to fill a small stadium, I think, so I won't try to top that...
What is this affluent Yorkshire place that people speak of? You people don't know what hardship is.

Well, actually my siblings and I did not have it so bad. My parents however had it a lot tougher. My late father was 18 when he and his 15-year old brother buried their father then their mother, and learned to fend for themselves. This was during WWII, when people were dodging bullets and bombs. My farmer grandparents died of dysentery, something that should not happen with simple treatments today.

My kids of course had it the easiest. I hope that they appreciate the circumstances that they are born into.
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Old 03-18-2015, 05:53 PM   #103
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Ok. This subject has probably been exhausted. However I just want to rant. My 22 year old daughter lives at home, pays no bills. I pay her health insurance. Paid for the 2009 car she drives. Pay for her medical prescriptions, food at home. Everything but her phone and spending. She quit college last year. Paid for that. She works 6 days a week. (One plus). She is a great gal. Won't take responsibility though. Ok... Just got a bill for her car repairs (relative is a mechanic). She REFUSES to pay half!!!!

I am done. What to do?


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Caveat: My kids are VERY young and I am very skeptical about giving or taking parenting advice because the situations are so nuanced and so individual. That said... you did ask nicely.

I disagree with the sentiment expressed by some people that you should "cut the cord." I think you have to look at yourself and your actions and figure out how and to what degree you are responsible, what you want for your kids, what they want and how you can truly help them achieve that.

MAYBE cutting her off cold turkey is the right thing, but I don't think that should be a quick conversation where you say "Look, I've taken care of you and coddled you long enough. It ends today. Lots of luck." Honestly, I don't think you will be able to do that anyway, she'll get mad, go away for a week or a month, then come back with a sob story and you'll crumble . I suspect this is how I would act. My daughter is 2.5 and she already tries to manipulate me... can't even imagine after 20 years .

So... I would use a different tactic. I would sit her down and tell her that you love her and want to see her happy and successful and see if you can get a sense of how she really feels? What she wants out of life? Then I think you should tell her how you feel. Tell her your position, show her the numbers, make her sit in your shoes and see how she reacts.

If she blows that off and doesn't even want to engage, then maybe you just cut it off. If she doesn't, then I think you can both take meaningful and moderate steps towards her financial responsibility and independence.

Frist... she has a job. Great! Today is rent and bill pay day. Take your mortgage and bills divide them along some fair metric and that's where her pay goes. Show her the numbers, your bank account... see what she thinks is fair as well. THEN, introduce her to the wonders of FIRE, take 10% (or whatever) and show her how savings work, compounding, etc. Show her firecalc, investment projections and all those cool visualization tools. Then I think you should both go out with a small set amount of money and have a nice dinner/lunch or something.

Next I would try to create some goals. You want her out of the house, you don't want to pay for her car. What's the plan for selling YOUR car that she uses to her? what's the plan for her living outside (renting, buying, etc). What's the savings plan?

If you can't do this alone, get a trusted intermediary and every month go over these things. I myself am a huge progress person, if I can't see the progress, it's super hard to see changes. Over a few months maybe she'll actually get excited and pick up ownership herself. Now you don't have a future liability coming home after 6 months crying for help :P


She has a job, she earns money. That's better than a great number of people! She has a supportive parent. Also a huge benefit! It sounds like you may have not taught her about practical self-reliance yet you have it which means you can probably pass it on.

So teach her . If she's not a willing student, then it might be time for the school of hard knocks, but I also think you should leave the door open... not to come back for sympathy and handouts, but for education. If it's an FU situation and she storms out... and comes back in a month or two then you can ask "ok, are you ready to work with me to learn how you can do this better?" and if she storms away, I'd keep that hard line. That will be very hard I imagine.


If you don't do this, she may teach her kids the same thing and potentially end up with a guy that she thinks loves her because he gives her what she wants, instead of someone who respects her for who she is... that is actually one of my biggest fears for my daughter .

Easy for me to say.. all I have to do is deal with diapers and temper tantrums. Also I'm no expert on any of this either from education or experience so I might be totally wrong... it's just kind of what "makes sense" to me?

Good Luck!
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Old 03-18-2015, 06:08 PM   #104
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Pursue your parental dreams. Reality will hit you smack in the face soon enough!
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Old 03-18-2015, 11:59 PM   #105
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...Caveat: My kids are VERY young and I am very skeptical about giving or taking parenting advice because the situations are so nuanced and so individual. That said... you did ask nicely.

Then I think you should tell her how you feel. Tell her your position, show her the numbers, make her sit in your shoes and see how she reacts....

Good Luck!
I would be interested to see how your twenty-two year old daughter reacts. So, if you decide to follow this advice, could you please video the shoe idea and then put it on YouTube?

Talk about situations being nuanced and individual! Anyhow, got to give credit for an original idea. My guess is your daughter's reaction will be to immediately give you first and last month's rent, a security deposit, pay you cash for the car (including money for the repair bill) and stealthily move out under cover of night first chance she gets. (Which, I guess solves numerous problems).
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Old 03-19-2015, 06:42 AM   #106
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How are kids today having it tougher?
Housing and education costs that have wildly outpaced inflation, navigating the worst economic crisis since the Great Depression, movement towards outsourcing and overseas manufacturing, elimination of traditional pensions ... shall I go on?
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Old 03-19-2015, 07:02 AM   #107
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I have seen parents move to a new (smaller) place where their adult children would not be joining them at.

It seems with advance notice, that might be a way to break the pattern. If daughter finds a room mate for her new place, it would be a stepping stone to living independently.

Another more aggressive option available, especially for those who have recently entered into these arrangements, is to start running things like when they were younger. Examples include curfews along with the "when you live under my roof, you will abide by my rules -- no negotiating".

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Old 03-19-2015, 08:12 AM   #108
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Thank you all. I am getting very good advice here. I actually hope to have a long talk with her tonight.

I will let you know how it all goes! ....
How did it go?
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Old 03-19-2015, 09:40 AM   #109
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I've come to conclude that the old saying is true - some people exist solely to serve as an example to others.
Or the related quote:
"he is not totally useless, he can be used as a bad example"
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Old 03-19-2015, 11:13 AM   #110
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Why? Don't you have to pay to replace their bedroom rug (don't know what made me think of that) , pay for heating and cooling, Internet access, electricity, food. Isn't this pretty much the same as letting them stay for free? Someone at work is doing this (collecting nominal rent/food money and then going o give back when son moves out) with their 20-something son and all they do is complain about the food bill and his buddies hanging out. Is it really just because it's your child and you don't want to be "harsh".

I charged rent when my daughter lived with me, but I don't remember giving it back to her. Actually, her carpet was always covered with clothes...cleanest carpet in the house. 😄


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Old 03-19-2015, 11:50 AM   #111
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OP, tough spot to be in! We're "training" our kids (age 8 and almost 10) to be independent as young adults. Talking about money, rent/mortgage, cars cost money, buying stuff means you don't have the $ any more. Obviously I have no experience with adult children permanently camping out after it's time to move on.

My oldest told me she plans to live here forever (which is the best ever endorsement that I'm an awesome parent!). I said sure as long as she splits groceries and pays rent. She agreed of course (being 9 and all).
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Old 03-19-2015, 12:06 PM   #112
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Our society does not help in training for independence or a job. I had a paper route starting when I was 12 and had a job from then on. My kids did not have that opportunity at such a young age.
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Old 03-19-2015, 12:10 PM   #113
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How did it go?
I'm interested in how it went too!

For the young parents reading this thread, one tactic I used was to make sure my children started working at age 16 or younger to generate their own spending money. This gets them used to the thrill of making their own money, the little level of independence it gives them, the pride in doing so, etc. Helps to instill a bit of work ethic. I know it may not work with all children but it worked with ours.

Jobs like lifequarding, working in a skate board shop or any retail shop that will have them, babysitting, day care aids, cutting lawns, etc.
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Old 03-19-2015, 12:29 PM   #114
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I'm interested in how it went too!

For the young parents reading this thread, one tactic I used was to make sure my children started working at age 16 or younger to generate their own spending money. This gets them used to the thrill of making their own money, the little level of independence it gives them, the pride in doing so, etc. Helps to instill a bit of work ethic. I know it may not work with all children but it worked with ours.

Jobs like lifequarding, working in a skate board shop or any retail shop that will have them, babysitting, day care aids, cutting lawns, etc.
That's our plan. We're fortunate to have tons of retail jobs a block away so they might not even need a car (and won't be blowing $$$ on gas for a long commute).

I know in my case, I valued the $6/hr I made back in high school a lot more because I knew how much sweat it cost to generate that $6. And how much more awesome earning $15-20+/hr sitting behind an air conditioned desk would be.
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Old 03-19-2015, 01:57 PM   #115
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I imagine it would be hard to learn the value of a dollar if everything is handed to you with no effort on your part.


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Old 03-19-2015, 02:53 PM   #116
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I charged rent when my daughter lived with me, but I don't remember giving it back to her. Actually, her carpet was always covered with clothes...cleanest carpet in the house. ��


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OMG, you gave me a good laugh.

Some of the posters are forgetting the original post. The girl lives at home, has a job, pays no rent/food/utilities, doesn't pay for repairs to a car she is driving. Granted, it does sound like this is something she's been allowed to do for a while. The OP did ask for advice. Not scary scenarios that some have suggested, cripes just what parents need more worry. In this economy maybe it's not bad if the daughter lives at home as long as she's paying her fair share. Fair share is some kind of rent whether the mortgage is paid or not and her bills. I also can see where a adult child may have to return home after they have left the nest like, divorce, job transfers, sickness BUT there have to be limits set at the beginning.
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Old 03-19-2015, 05:21 PM   #117
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I'm interested in how it went too!

For the young parents reading this thread, one tactic I used was to make sure my children started working at age 16 or younger to generate their own spending money. This gets them used to the thrill of making their own money, the little level of independence it gives them, the pride in doing so, etc. Helps to instill a bit of work ethic. I know it may not work with all children but it worked with ours.

Jobs like lifequarding, working in a skate board shop or any retail shop that will have them, babysitting, day care aids, cutting lawns, etc.

Yea.... I wish I could get this past DW... DS is 17 and does not work... he spend 5 days a week in the gym after school (which I pay for)...

I cannot complain too much as he is one of the top students in school and does all his homework without us saying a word... he is in a couple of engineering competitions and so far has placed first in them.... going to regional next.... has a possibility of winning a scholarship or two.... however, I still think a job with others making demands on him would be something good for him....
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Old 03-19-2015, 05:30 PM   #118
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Yea.... I wish I could get this past DW... DS is 17 and does not work... he spend 5 days a week in the gym after school (which I pay for)...

I cannot complain too much as he is one of the top students in school and does all his homework without us saying a word... he is in a couple of engineering competitions and so far has placed first in them.... going to regional next.... has a possibility of winning a scholarship or two.... however, I still think a job with others making demands on him would be something good for him....
My parents would have been thrilled if that kid was me. I had a job at 17 and bought my own clothes, a small motorcycle, etc. However, my grades were lousy and there was no prayer of a scholarship unless there is one out there for "hopeless student". I was called a lot of things in HS but "student" was never one of them.

So things can be a lot worse.
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Old 03-19-2015, 07:27 PM   #119
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Yea.... I wish I could get this past DW... DS is 17 and does not work... he spend 5 days a week in the gym after school (which I pay for)...

I cannot complain too much as he is one of the top students in school and does all his homework without us saying a word... he is in a couple of engineering competitions and so far has placed first in them.... going to regional next.... has a possibility of winning a scholarship or two.... however, I still think a job with others making demands on him would be something good for him....
Sounds like a pretty ideal situation!

Now if he's 23, just dropped out of college and not working in a "real" job, not paying rent, and not paying for his own car repairs, then come back here and post a thread about it.
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Old 03-19-2015, 07:33 PM   #120
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+1 it continually amazes me given the same parents, same home environment, same parenting, etc. how drastically different our children are. How the heck does that happen?
Genetics?
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