Data Mining for your gambling pain point

[Chuckanut]

I know that casinos have very sophisticated ways of separating their customers from their money, but I never realized this (emphasis mine):

How to Predict If a Borrower Will Pay You Back -- Science of Us

Scott Gnau, general manager of Terabyte, explains, in the excellent book Super Crunchers, what casino managers do when they see a regular customer nearing their pain point: “They come out and say, ‘I see you’re having a rough day. I know you like our steakhouse. Here, I’d like you to take your wife to dinner on us right now.’ In other words, management is using sophisticated data analysis to try to extract as much money from customers, over the long term, as it can.

 

[Car-Guy]

I know that casinos have very sophisticated ways of separating their customers from their money, but I never realized this

It works too but some Casinos are much better at this than others. It depends a lot on the executive host they assign to you. Just this month, the casino hotel I stayed at comp'd me a $695 per/night penthouse suite and paid for every meal I had and all my travel expenses. But they still came out "far, far" ahead.

 

[HFWR]

Those glitzy $Gazillion hotels aren't there because the house is losing...

 

[ERD50]

Very interesting article, much more in there than just the casino point.

It works too but some Casinos are much better at this than others. It depends a lot on the executive host they assign to you. ...

Ummm, what does it take to have an "executive host assigned to you"?

I don't think I could do the dancing over the comps, knowing the cost of the face-palm.

-ERD50

 

[gcgang]

V
Ummm, what does it take to have an "executive host assigned to you"?

I don't think I could do the dancing over the comps, knowing the cost of the face-palm.

-ERD50

As usual, it depends - depends on where you're stayin' (not so much, how you're playin'). At Wynn, Bellagio, other "top tier" joints, 4 hours/day w >$250 average bet will barely get attention, at others, a $25 bettor gets comped.

 

[Out of Steam]

I've never won, lost, or wagered more than $50 in my life. There's no use comping me anything.

 

[ERD50]

As usual, it depends - depends on where you're stayin' (not so much, how you're playin'). At Wynn, Bellagio, other "top tier" joints, 4 hours/day w >$250 average bet will barely get attention, at others, a $25 bettor gets comped.

Average bet? How many bets is included in the average?

-ERD50

 

[Chuckanut]

As usual, it depends - depends on where you're stayin' (not so much, how you're playin'). At Wynn, Bellagio, other "top tier" joints, 4 hours/day w >$250 average bet will barely get attention, at others, a $25 bettor gets comped.

I am curious (obviously I do not frequent the casinos). When do they decide to comp a [-]sucker[/-] player. Does the player know before he/she arrives that they will be comped? Or does it occur during the stay - some fellow in a Tux taps the player on the shoulder and says "Sir/Madam, the Lucky 13 Casino would like you to stay this weekend for free, and here are six meal tickets to our most exclusive restaurant so you can avoid the rabble in the $7.99 buffet line".

 

[Chuckanut]

I guess I was lucky and this sophisticated approach to keeping people coming back was not yet possible.

My first trip to Lost Wages took place when I was a young college student. I had brought $100 for expenses (a week's wages at that time!). On my first night at the casino I followed a pattern - bet, lose, bet, lose, bet, lose, bet, lose, bet, win a bit, bet, lose, bet lose, bet, lose, bet lose......

After two or three hours of the above I decided that quickly losing one's money at the gambling tables was not a lot of fun, even if a scantily clad young woman brought me a few free drinks. I spent the rest of the weekend [-]ogling the bikini clad girls[/-] reading an improving book by the pool. Oh, I also had a great tour of Hoover Dam! Geek Heaven.

 

[gcgang]

Average bet? How many bets is included in the average?

-ERD50

All of 'em.

BJ pretty simple. If you bet $100 on 1/2 the hands, and $500 on the other half, your average bet is, maybe math jack can confirm this, $300.

In Craps, your odds bets, where there is no house edge, don't count. Otherwise it's what you've got out on the table per roll.

I don't know about other games. On slots, you insert your players card in the machine while you play.

I understand places like Wynn have " chip in chip " technology, so, at BJ, your bets (and your play- they have chips in the cards), can be tracked.

 

[ERD50]

All of 'em.

BJ pretty simple. If you bet $100 on 1/2 the hands, and $500 on the other half, your average bet is, maybe math jack can confirm this, $300.

In Craps, your odds bets, where there is no house edge, don't count. Otherwise it's what you've got out on the table per roll.

I don't know about other games. On slots, you insert your players card in the machine while you play.

I understand places like Wynn have " chip in chip " technology, so, at BJ, your bets (and your play- they have chips in the cards), can be tracked.

It's not the math I need help on, it's the number of bets in the time period. When you say "4 hours/day w >$250 average bet ", how many times was a $250 bet placed in those 4 hours?

If it was 10 bets an hour for 4 hours, that's 40 bets. At $250 average bet, that's $10,000 in "transactions". If the casino is raking in, on average, 3% (just a guess on my part, but I see that at BJ, the theoretical house advantage is tenths of a %, but that doesn't include drunk/distracted/poor players), they expect ~ $300 or $75/hour income (minus expenses). Obviously, the timing depends on the game being played.

-ERD50

 

[gcgang]

I agree with you, but last I checked, whether you're playing heads up and getting 500 hands/ hr, or at a drunken table of 6 getting in 50 hands per hour, it's the TIME they care about when giving comps. Doesn't seem correct, but that's how they explained it to me- although that was a lot of years ago. You'd think they'd be more interested in their expected win rate rather than just time.

 

[Fedup]

I play game that I don't lose big in 4 hours time frame. I got comped with free meals like free buffet for two, with $1-$2 poker table and $20 buy in. And Pai Gao. I actual win small amount on this game, like $40 every 4 hours. I stay away from Black Jack and Craps. I used to play Craps but I don't remember how to play anymore and don't want to relearn.

 

[Car-Guy]

Ummm, what does it take to have an "executive host assigned to you"?

I don't think I could do the dancing over the comps, knowing the cost of the face-palm.

-ERD50

First, as if I need to tell anyone here, if you can't afford to lose and/or don't "really enjoy" the thrill of gambling, then don't play. It's primarily the entertainment value from my POV. Anyone who thinks they can beat the house over the long term is NUTS or just fooling themselves. I know a number of higher stakes gamblers and none are long term winners, although I've heard there are a few consistent winners out there somewhere. For most frequent gamblers, some years are good and some years are bad. Usually, the best you can hope for is to break even, and that can often be hard to do. So if you like to gamble, enjoy the ride.

Second, (most Casinos outside of Vegas) frequent players will get a host assigned to them if they risk enough money (not sure what the min $ is to get a host assigned). If not, and you are a frequent player, just ask for one to be assigned. Play enough (i.e. risk) per visit, then you should get an executive host assigned pretty quickly. How much is enough? If you suspect they are filling out CTR's on you each visit then that should get you an executive host pretty quick. Trust me, you are paying for their service/attention and any comps you may receive.

Comp's vary by casino and player action but often include free travel, meals, rooms, shows, complimentary chips, gifts almost weekly (but most gifts are crap, although I have got a couple of nice laptops and TV's from time to time) and other perks.

Personally I don't play slots (never, no way). Table games and some sports betting are my thing.

 

[ERD50]

First, as if I need to tell anyone here, if you can't afford to lose and/or don't "really enjoy" the thrill of gambling, then don't play. It's primarily the entertainment value from my POV.[/I ...

I understand it's entertainment for some people, but it still just still seemed odd to me to be exited about the comps, when they come about from losses.

But if it's a hobby/entertainment for you, no explanation needed (or possible?), that's part of the fun of hobbies.


-ERD50

 

[RobbieB]

I love casinos and I love to gamble. Hours and hours, drinks and drinks. I check in and I don't leave for 3 days. Three days of utter debauchery and excess. Not fit to drive so I don't.

I'm a self held captive while I'm there. But after 3 days the sound of the slots is obnoxious and I leave gladly up or down whatever, a little burned out and glad to be going home -

 

[Car-Guy]

I understand it's entertainment for some people, but it still just still seemed odd to me to be exited about the comps, when they come about from losses.

-ERD50

When I traveled to far away places for enjoyment (not much anymore) I liked to go first class, stay in the finest hotels and eat at some really nice restaurants. $$$ And I had fun. But, about all I got back (other than memories) are some frequent flyer miles and a few pictures. I was happy to get the miles too.

BTW, you get comps even when you win. I like them much better that way.

 

[exnavynuke]

I understand it's entertainment for some people, but it still just still seemed odd to me to be exited about the comps, when they come about from losses.

But if it's a hobby/entertainment for you, no explanation needed (or possible?), that's part of the fun of hobbies.


-ERD50

They come from the expectation of losses, not necessarily from losses. I have a friend who is up by mid-6 figures and enjoys the comps even though his average bet is below what was mentioned earlier.

 

[GravitySucks]

The heck with the comps. You need to buy my Roulette system. I learned it from Col. Parker.

 

[Chuckanut]

From what I have heard the casinos treat gamblers based upon the amount of money the gambler puts at risk. It doesn't matter if an individual gamble wins or loses. The casinos have the math down to a fine point - for every dollar that a group of gamblers bet, they pretty much know the percentage of that dollar they will end up with.

 

[Fermion]

Gambling in the stock market sort of ruined casinos for me

I used to sometimes play craps and would get excited on wining a few hundred in an evening.

Now when in a casino I head toward the nearest free soda fountain, find a chair and check my biotech stocks, which win or lose me a few thousand in a matter of minutes. Craps is just boring in comparison.

 

[Car-Guy]

Gambling in the stock market sort of ruined casinos for me

Funny you say that since I've been gambling in the market more and casinos less in the past year. Market wins and losses are slower but can be almost as exciting and I don't need to leave the house. The market comps (dividends) are more predictable but I need to get my own beer.

 

[RobbieB]

Poker is my game. Live of course, real people and a dealer. 7 card, Hold'em, Omaha, tournaments too. They are great, you can play real live no limit Texas hold'em for a $35 to $70 buck buy in. Feel like a big plunger for cheap.

Tournament or cash games, don't matter, sit me down or put me on the waiting list. Hours and hours, drinks and drinks. I leave to eat or go to bed.