Dating, Marriage, Kids

[Aerides]

As a person who decided not to have children, I would imagine the number of couples who made the decision on Zero vs. Any children, primarily for financial reasons, is incredibly small. There is (or was) a lot of societal pressure to be parent. Women over 30 are assumed to be mothers. Often, when others learn you aren't, they are sometimes uncomfortable, and assume it's as if you must have wanted them, but couldn't...

I can see money being a greater influence in the "should we have more..." decision, especially a factor after 2. I'm sure there's a lot of "we'd have had more if we won the lottery."

But deciding Y/N on the first one based on finances? Nah. Not if someone wanted them anyway, and was married or stable-coupled, etc.

I'm quite sure there are a far greater number of those that wanted kids but couldn't have them, than those that wanted them that decided not to because...money.

That said DH and I have no regrets. When younger, I always thought I was a bit weird because I never had that yearning to be a mom. I kept waiting for it to kick in, but it never did. When I met DH he was basically on the fence but we were already 35 so it was an early easy decision together. Being DINKs certainly helped us ER sooner, but it was never more than a joking part of the decision.

[street]

I totally agree if you wanted kids, you wanted them and cost isn't a deciding factor. We had one and what a joy for us and cost was never a big deal for having a child. He worked from early on life worked after school, summers and during college and full time between college years. He was very easy to raise and we literally never had to help him. We did have him on auto insurance and health insurance as long as we could but that was about it.

He isn't married now at 33 and I doubt he will want any children but I could see an already made family if he ever gets married, but then again that is speculation.

[MarieIG]

Quote:

Originally Posted by brewer12345 We went the other route with two kids, namely DW staying home. She started a small practice out of the house in her profession to keep her career prospects alive and maintain licenses and certifications, but for about a decade her earnings were negligible. He earnings rebounded after the kids went to school, but the lifetime effect on her earnings is very large (6 figure easily, possibly 2 comma when all is said and done).

Certainly in my case, having children also had an impact on lifetime earnings (time missed from the workforce, jobs chosen which were kid friendly as opposed to lucrative). But they were my priority. There was a thread a while back as to whether children had effected ER.

[scrabbler1]

Even though I knew at age 20 that I would be childfree, it wasn't for another 15 years that I figured out I could parlay that important decision into an early retirement. And even then, it took another 10 years to reach ER.


Deciding to be childfree did cost me some good relationships. But this was something I could not and would not yield on. And I would not trade my ER for anything.

[MarieIG]

Quote:

Originally Posted by scrabbler1 Even though I knew at age 20 that I would be childfree, it wasn't for another 15 years that I figured out I could parlay that important decision into an early retirement. And even then, it took another 10 years to reach ER. Deciding to be childfree did cost me some good relationships. But this was something I could not and would not yield on. And I would not trade my ER for anything.

So, you knew what you wanted and were honest about it. Seems perfectly reasonable to me.

[Lewis Clark]

My wife and I chose to be child-free, and we have had many acquaintances over the years who also chose to be child-free. As far as I know, all of us chose to be child free because of the lifestyle issues, not because of the cost of raising kids.

[ncbill]

Quote:

Originally Posted by brewer12345 State university costs 30k a year if you go in state. Do you really think a college kid is capable of working enough to pay these costs?

Joining the state National Guard pays tuition/fees at public schools in many states.

Or apply for a ROTC scholarship (what all my kids did.)

Or enlist & use the GI Bill after separating.

There's lots of military $ available for college.

[imoldernu]

No regrets... three boys in the first 4 years of marriage, and one more 7 years later.
From the beginning, a wonderful life with them, growing up. Jeanie alternated between being a SAHM,... to working at many different jobs over the first 20 years. Baby sitters were either free or very inexpensive. Think 1959 thru 1975... In retrospect, a difficult balance, as I was working 60+ hours/wk.

I don't think we ever felt anything other than happiness. The house(es) were always fun, my boys were bright and easy to have around. They learned discipline early, and their curiosity kept them busy.

During the early years we moved a lot... from Lake Cobbeseconte Maine, to Providence to Georgia, to Ayer, Ma. to Claremont, New Hampshire to Saugus, Ma, to Vineyard Haven, to Falmouth to Greenfield Ma., then to Albany NY and then to Lisle Il... to Woodhaven Lakes Campground, Leesburg Florida and finally to Peru, Il. (and many stops along the way).

The best part came when the boys reached the ages 7 thru 14, when all of our spare time was spent with the kids... either on trips to the Chicago (free) attractions like the Museum of Science and Industry, Field Museum etc.. or... and this was the favorite...myself and some of the boys, hiking and camping in the Adirondack Mountains. Weekends and especially during long weekends and vacations. The very best times were canoeing the Chain of lakes... for a whole week at a time, packing food and camp gear, and seeing only the Park Rangers along the way.

In between time we had a 72 VW microbus "Victoria Von Volkswagen" and jeanie, I and some of the kids did most of the campgrounds in Illinois, almost all in Wisconsin, and in Indiana,Michigan and Iowa.

So... No world wide travel, no "pay" entertainment, not much "eating out", and no luxury vacations. Along the way, not much in the way of planning for a long or "forbid" ...Early Retirement, Just saved enough along the way to make a stab at it, after the health scare in 1989.

A different world today. It's hard to relate to the way it was 50 to 60 years ago, but we wouldn't change anything. When our kids come to visit, we have a hard time talking about today, as they want to look back at what they too, considered the happiest times.
.................................................. ................................................
Not sure how I got off the track here, but these memories have stalled time, as jeanie and I have spent hours remembering those early days.
..........................
Edit re college: all four boys have college education... we halved the costs

[TDub]

Quote:

Originally Posted by imoldernu No regrets... three boys in the first 4 years of marriage, and one more 7 years later. From the beginning, a wonderful life with them, growing up. Jeanie alternated between being a SAHM,... to working at many different jobs over the first 20 years. Baby sitters were either free or very inexpensive. Think 1959 thru 1975... In retrospect, a difficult balance, as I was working 60+ hours/wk. I don't think we ever felt anything other than happiness. The house(es) were always fun, my boys were bright and easy to have around. They learned discipline early, and their curiosity kept them busy. During the early years we moved a lot... from Lake Cobbeseconte Maine, to Providence to Georgia, to Ayer, Ma. to Claremont, New Hampshire to Saugus, Ma, to Vineyard Haven, to Falmouth to Greenfield Ma., then to Albany NY and then to Lisle Il... to Woodhaven Lakes Campground, Leesburg Florida and finally to Peru, Il. (and many stops along the way). The best part came when the boys reached the ages 7 thru 14, when all of our spare time was spent with the kids... either on trips to the Chicago (free) attractions like the Museum of Science and Industry, Field Museum etc.. or... and this was the favorite...myself and some of the boys, hiking and camping in the Adirondack Mountains. Weekends and especially during long weekends and vacations. The very best times were canoeing the Chain of lakes... for a whole week at a time, packing food and camp gear, and seeing only the Park Rangers along the way. In between time we had a 72 VW microbus "Victoria Von Volkswagen" and jeanie, I and some of the kids did most of the campgrounds in Illinois, almost all in Wisconsin, and in Indiana,Michigan and Iowa. So... No world wide travel, no "pay" entertainment, not much "eating out", and no luxury vacations. Along the way, not much in the way of planning for a long or "forbid" ...Early Retirement, Just saved enough along the way to make a stab at it, after the health scare in 1989. A different world today. It's hard to relate to the way it was 50 to 60 years ago, but we wouldn't change anything. When our kids come to visit, we have a hard time talking about today, as they want to look back at what they too, considered the happiest times. .................................................. ................................................ Not sure how I got off the track here, but these memories have stalled time, as jeanie and I have spent hours remembering those early days. .......................... Edit re college: all four boys have college education... we halved the costs

Love this, imoldernu. Thanks for sharing!
Can’t wait to camp with my boys.

[Scuba]

One thing that used to really annoy me when I was in my late 20’s and throughout my 30’s was that when I’d mention I didn’t want children, people would invariably say “you’ll change your mind.” I never did.

[scrabbler1]

Quote:

Originally Posted by Scuba One thing that used to really annoy me when I was in my late 20’s and throughout my 30’s was that when I’d mention I didn’t want children, people would invariably say “you’ll change your mind.” I never did.

Insulting remarks like that are, in the childfree world, called "bingos." Many of us in the childfree world, especially women (which I am not), hear them so often that there are these "bingo cards" which list them out. Whenever we hear one of those remarks, we can put a marker onto one of those special bingo cards until we fill them up.

[gwraigty]

Quote:

Originally Posted by Scuba One thing that used to really annoy me when I was in my late 20’s and throughout my 30’s was that when I’d mention I didn’t want children, people would invariably say “you’ll change your mind.” I never did.

I felt the same as you at the same age. I did change my mind, when I fell in love with the man who became my husband. But we didn't let anyone from either side of the family pressure us.

At this time, neither of our young adult children are interested in having kids and that's OK. As I tell them, it's not their job to make us grandparents.

Then comes the pressure from the grandparents to become great-grandparents...

[Beststash]

DW and I married at 28 in '78. We thought seriously about having children in our 30's and decided that we didn't want to have children in the post 70's world. Thank goodness birth control made that possible, although insurance didn't cover it at the time. 40 years later I think we made the right decision and I'm sure that made it possible for us to early retire. Life is good.

[TDub]

Quote:

Originally Posted by Scuba One thing that used to really annoy me when I was in my late 20’s and throughout my 30’s was that when I’d mention I didn’t want children, people would invariably say “you’ll change your mind.” I never did.

These kinds of comments are incredibly rude. Hopefully they didn’t intend to be insulting...no matter what, though, some people should do a little more thinking before they speak.

[Markola]

DW and I wanted kids, especially her, but after years of every kind of expensive science, it didn’t happen. So, for us, “Do you have kids?” isn’t replied with “No, we chose not to.” DW usually says “No.” I usually try to keep it light by saying, “No, but it wasn’t due to lack of interest or lack of trying! (Wink, wink, nudge, nudge.)”. Yes, it sucks and, no, please don’t feel sorry for us. We tried hard, it wasn’t in the cards, it sucked but there are plenty of advantages to not having kids and our quite full lives go on.

[scottpush]

Quote:

Originally Posted by RobbieB I married in '84 at the age of 28. No kids. Lots of dough -

That is so like me except for the married part.

[raebaby]

Quote:

Originally Posted by brewer12345 State university costs 30k a year if you go in state. Do you really think a college kid is capable of working enough to pay these costs?

My son attended the local tech college and paid his own way. Graduated in 2 years. He got a degree in Utilities Engineering. Got a fantastic job making 60k his first year out. He worked on a dairy farm all through high school so he had his Freshman year almost paid before he started. He worked on that same dairy farm throughout the two years if tech school and came out debt free. He also purchased his first home at age 21. He is far more financially advanced than any of his peers who attended a 4 year school (so far). I think technical colleges have a lot to offer and sometimes get overlooked as a way for young people to make a working living.

[MarieIG]

Quote:

Originally Posted by Scuba One thing that used to really annoy me when I was in my late 20’s and throughout my 30’s was that when I’d mention I didn’t want children, people would invariably say “you’ll change your mind.” I never did.

It's not only those who chose not to have children who hear inappropriate remarks.

Case in point: When I was about six months pregnant with my first, I saw a friend who I hadn't seen in a while. Her remark, "why the H didn't you get an abortion, you're too young to have a kid." (I didn't feel very friendly towards her after that.) And with my history: "Weren't you disappointed you didn't have a girl."

[Teacher Terry]

Marie, she would have been my ex friend quickly. That’s terrible.

[MarieIG]

Quote:

Originally Posted by Teacher Terry Marie, she would have been my ex friend quickly. That’s terrible.

Yes, she was. I was dumbfounded. The baby was kicking at that point. I got comments from time to time, but that was the worst, which is why it stuck with me.