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Old 07-17-2009, 02:22 PM   #21
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Her husband doesn't work. Just stays home with the 2 & 5 year old kids....
I know a stay-at-home mom with two children; her husband works outside the home and has been disabled here and there; they were a bit over-extended for their wedding which I believe they eventually paid off. Apparently, they accept help from her parents. I have to remind myself that SAHM is a respectable way to live.

What can you do for her? Give her DH the gift of respect! I know you are angry and this forum is a good place to vent but we do try to look at all angles. All the best to you all.
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Old 07-17-2009, 03:25 PM   #22
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Originally Posted by jambo101 View Post
Sounds to me like she needs a total finacial lifestyle change starting with the two obvious albatrosses =the house and the hubby.

With the new facts... like others... this is the solution...


IMO, if someone has a family that is in financial ruin and can not get off their fat as* and find a job... doesn't deserve anything from me...

I feel sorry for the kids who have to grow up this way... hopefully it will not rub off and have them become a drain on society...
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Old 07-17-2009, 04:11 PM   #23
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What can you do for her? Give her DH the gift of respect! I know you are angry and this forum is a good place to vent but we do try to look at all angles. All the best to you all.
I agree - since when is staying home with small children not "work"? My friends with pre-k kids who work do it because they want to, but it doesn't do much for their finances, given the costs of daycare.

On the other hand, it sounds like he's got a history of possibly irresponsible financial behavior. If that's true and he hasn't changed his habits, it's not going to matter whether he's working, he'll never have enough to cover his bills.
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Old 07-18-2009, 08:19 PM   #24
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Think I'll go get some cold beer.
Win.
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Old 07-18-2009, 08:34 PM   #25
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Her husband doesn't work. Just stays home with the 2 & 5 year old kids. I can't stand unproductive people.
Funny how the hubby staying home with the kids is "unproductive," but if your DD was the homemaker it would all be fine and dandy. No double standard here...

Other than that, I would stay out of it. They got themselves in, let them get themselves out. If you want to offer advice, great, but don't be shocked if it falls on deaf ears.
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Old 07-18-2009, 11:22 PM   #26
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Financially, divorce will be a tough row to hoe. Divorce laws vary from state to state, but in my state in this case the unproductive hubby could ask for and maybe probably get half the assets, perhaps some alimony, and even have her pay him child support if he has the kids at all. If they divorce she will also be saddled with additional child care payments. Overall, too, with having to have two of everything (two houses, two sets of kids' clothes, two sets of kids' bedrooms, etc.), she'll probably suffer a 30% drop in her standard of living.

On the other hand, if the hubby is the unproductive and unrepentant drain on their finances, eventually -- perhaps in 3-7 years -- she'll be better off financially.

I'd agree with the others to not bail them out, like it sounds like you intend to do. I'd also say to support her emotionally if she decides to divorce him. Finally, the kids will need a lot of love and care through whatever happens, and they didn't ask for any of this. It's great if grandparents can help that way.

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Old 07-19-2009, 09:42 AM   #27
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Divorce laws vary from state to state, but in my state in this case the unproductive hubby could ask for and maybe probably get half the assets, perhaps some alimony, and even have her pay him child support if he has the kids at all.
In fact, since he appears to be the primary caregiver, he could also ask for and has a good chance to be awarded custody of the children. Many divorce courts strongly lean towards arrangements that keep whatever situation the kids are in as stable as possible.

I understand you don't care for the husband, but if their problems are mostly financial, a divorce is unlikely to help and could be far worse. If their marriage is really broken, then divorce should be an option, but money woes alone shouldn't be a reason to do something that drastic and painful for all involved (including the children).
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Old 07-19-2009, 10:36 AM   #28
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In fact, since he appears to be the primary caregiver, he could also ask for and has a good chance to be awarded custody of the children. Many divorce courts strongly lean towards arrangements that keep whatever situation the kids are in as stable as possible.

I understand you don't care for the husband, but if their problems are mostly financial, a divorce is unlikely to help and could be far worse. If their marriage is really broken, then divorce should be an option, but money woes alone shouldn't be a reason to do something that drastic and painful for all involved (including the children).

I wonder if it wouldn't be better if he just "disappeared" without a trace. A fishing trip far out in the wilderness might be in order at this time. Just thinking out loud, of course. But I do know just the 'right' place to 'go fishing.'
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Old 07-19-2009, 11:02 AM   #29
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Yikes. Was this a serious request for input, or are you just looking for ideas for your new "made for TV" movie.
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Old 07-19-2009, 11:05 AM   #30
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I agree with do not give them $. If close enough and you can, offer child care for a couple of months so hubby can man up. Here RN's make really good money. Could your daughter bid into shift work for a premium or pick up registry work in her off days? Life is not easy but once you have made the decision to have children and by a home and stuff it is an obligation. Could he not at least take a job at the local mini-mart and contribute that? Dave Ramsey's beans and rice does work. Think about what you see them doing on a daily basis to improve the financials. Are they recreational shoppers and we deserve a treat dine out types? Many young adults have not learned to do with less let alone do without. I have know lots of women who filed BK but still kept weekly salon appointments for hair, facials and nails. Major medical problems or unexpected job loss are about the only reason I can truly understand and condone walking away from obligations.

It sounds as if it is time for both of them to grow up.
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Old 07-19-2009, 11:16 AM   #31
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I see this thread drifting to critiques of the husband. I see no problem with either spouse not working and taking care of the kids and home. Nice when people can afford it. The problem is spending. And he might be a jerk otherwise, but we don't know.
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Old 07-19-2009, 11:17 AM   #32
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Her husband doesn't work. Just stays home with the 2 & 5 year old kids. I can't stand unproductive people.

My comment is really not in line with the subject of the thread (bankruptcy), but your comment above really jumped out at me. If he was working outside the home and your daughter was staying with the kids would you consider her unproductive? This forum seems a strange place to express opinions about unproductive people. Seems many FIREd people would fit into your "unproductive" classification. Perhaps you have very good reasons for not liking him, but don't I think this one is legitimate.

(Edit) I suspect that I would not like your son-in-law either, but for the other reasons you mentioned, not this one.
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Old 07-19-2009, 11:33 AM   #33
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BK may work out well. If they can eliminate $42k in unsecured debt and get rid of 90k negative equity in the house.

Maybe get a small apartment for a while until they get their finances turned around. Post BK they may need a little help getting that going.

Regarding the husband, it may be cheaper for him to stay at home and take care of the kids versus working, paying higher taxes, and paying 2x daycare fees (at least until the 5 yo enters free public school). Particularly if his skillset is small and he can't demand a decent salary.

Although there are always options to allow him to work - the wife could do night shifts (maybe get paid more doing nursing) and the husband could do day shifts and trade off taking care of the kids (rough life but could make ends meet on a temporary basis). Or find someone else in a similar position and trade babysitting services, allowing the husband to work at least part time.

Hey, not working is fun, I don't blame the guy. But you have to be responsible for yourself and your family at the same time.
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Old 07-19-2009, 11:40 AM   #34
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My comment is really not in line with the subject of the thread (bankruptcy), but your comment above really jumped out at me. If he was working outside the home and your daughter was staying with the kids would you consider her unproductive? This forum seems a strange place to express opinions about unproductive people. Seems many FIREd people would fit into your "unproductive" classification. Perhaps you have very good reasons for not liking him, but don't I think this one is legitimate.
Heck, with two kids they're twice as productive as my spouse and me...
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Old 07-19-2009, 11:57 AM   #35
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Financially, divorce will be a tough row to hoe. Divorce laws vary from state to state, but in my state in this case the unproductive hubby could ask for and maybe probably get half the assets, perhaps some alimony, and even have her pay him child support if he has the kids at all. If they divorce she will also be saddled with additional child care payments.
Great! Fairness demands that he be compensated for giving up the career that he might have had were it not for selflessly staying home to care for the kids. Just like the career sacrificing SAHM, you know.

BTW, most of you who are so judgmental about this have never had any kids, never paid any day care bills, never juggled your life to fill-in when you child is sick and generally know nothing about whatever reality is involved. And if you want to know what I really think, just ask.

Executive summary for any of you young men reading this is- if possible do what NY Expat did. Throw yourself into your work, enjoy a dating life, save a wad and then if you want children, move outside the US or Western Europe and start a family there. And stay put!

Whatever happens, do not believe the Feminist/Opra/DrPhil/Media bs about stay at home Dads, gender parity, etc etc. These Dads are in a very vulnerable position- socially, psychologically, and economically.

Look in the mirror. Yes, you are male. You know it, everyone else knows it, and you will never be given the margins that a woman is given. That is baked into the biological cake, and should not be lamented. For you own well being, it also should not be ignored, or lost sight of.

Ha
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Old 07-19-2009, 12:27 PM   #36
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I couldn't care less who stays home with the kids, it's the same tough job whoever does it. Lets face it with 2 kids of that age probably unless both spouses are highly compensated through their employment, most of the earnings of one would go to child care.

For me the alarm bells ring because the husband has declared bankruptcy himself. If you are the spouse at home, you need to take control of the finances.

Bankruptcy rarely takes place by accident, and to be in this place a second time indicates a lack of caring on their behalf, believing that bankruptcy is the solution to all their problems. They got themselves into it, let them get themselves out of it.
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Old 07-19-2009, 01:02 PM   #37
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Being a stay at home parent will almost always be the best thing for the kids. But, when you make a commitment walking away is not a good thing. In this case the dad already filed for BK once. CC offers just came in the mail. If they both participated in the use of them or not is irrelevant IMHO. The bills came in and in a marriage you may not examine every bit of mail that comes in. But, keeping aware of what is coming in and going out is part of life. I see both of these people as responsible for the mess based on the OP's input.

Until we stop condoning bad financial behavior as individuals and as a nation the individuals who are responsible will continue to benefit from the labors of others. Personally I am tired of bailout economics both corporate and individual. I am just watching a friends 40 year old single son who makes 75K annually for a school district walking away from his condo mtg because he can move back home with his elderly debt free mom and she won't be alone. That is just wrong. There used to be a BK, foreclosure stigma and it is virtually gone. Now, it is almost acceptable to say "the economy hurt me so I walked out on my obligations."

I know I am going to a political rant now and know that a mod may shut me down so OP please accept my apology in advance. You are not the one trying to weasel out of your obligation. BUT we need more personal accountability and less paternalistic politics. More of a hand up than a hand out. Less social engineering and taxes and more work effort and jobs. Less taxes and more job creation. More LBYM and less keeping up with the Jonses. Better parenting and less toys and activities, more home cooked meals and less fast food.

Some of us may not have been the best of role models but I doubt we would be here or contemplating RE if we had practiced fiscal irresponsiblity. How can the boomers pass along financial values when so many are over extended?

I really do not want to pay another 5 or 10% in taxes so we can kiss the nations individual and collective immature financial Boo-Boo's all better.

I want all of us and our friends and families to GROW UP!!!

P.S. I also think we need to bring back the Soapbox and let's have some heated discussions. Ignoring a thread is not that hard!
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Old 07-19-2009, 02:03 PM   #38
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On further reflection, I think there are two things you could do that may be helpful.

1. Can you mind the grandchildren so both parents can work and hopefully increase their disposable income.?

2. Can you help them refinance to get out of the mortgage which is killing them?
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Old 07-20-2009, 01:40 PM   #39
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BTW, most of you who are so judgmental about this have never had any kids, never paid any day care bills, never juggled your life to fill-in when you child is sick and generally know nothing about whatever reality is involved. And if you want to know what I really think, just ask.
Amen, brother.......

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Whatever happens, do not believe the Feminist/Opra/DrPhil/Media bs about stay at home Dads, gender parity, etc etc. These Dads are in a very vulnerable position- socially, psychologically, and economically.
They have been for many years. As I found out later, my late mom's family tried to take my sister and I away from my dad after she died, arguing that he worked a lot of hours and we were being raised by housekeepers. I think it spooked him enough that he rushed into marriage 2 and wife 2 faster than he would have liked.........

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Look in the mirror. Yes, you are male. You know it, everyone else knows it, and you will never be given the margins that a woman is given. That is baked into the biological cake, and should not be lamented. For you own well being, it also should not be ignored, or lost sight of.
Ha
I have never minded being male........
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Old 07-20-2009, 01:43 PM   #40
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I couldn't care less who stays home with the kids, it's the same tough job whoever does it. Lets face it with 2 kids of that age probably unless both spouses are highly compensated through their employment, most of the earnings of one would go to child care.
Since you have never been in that situation, how would you know anything about it?

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For me the alarm bells ring because the husband has declared bankruptcy himself. If you are the spouse at home, you need to take control of the finances.
Uh, really? Even if the spouse has a poor track record of their own finances?
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