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Dealing with Police Retaliation, and Making Decisions
Old 03-06-2010, 02:12 PM   #1
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Dealing with Police Retaliation, and Making Decisions

Looking for some advice or feedback, so I'll do my best to explain where it's at.

At least 100 times, the state police in NY have told me to move out of the city where I own property, due to retaliation by people after I spoke up and helped get a false arrest dismissed. The false arrest was done by the police chief and six other cops, and other cops tell me the mayor ordered it. It's a big case of police corruption and retaliation. And the most open and trustworthy people have been other police officers. I won't forget that.

Does anyone have any advice for making an unwanted choice of moving?

I own property in a city in NY and in rural Vermont, and I've been harassed in both places (and got it on video). For a long time, NYSP has said move out of the city, so they can handle it. (City police command staff are the ones who broke the law.)

I am thinking about renting out my city place, and renting a smaller place somewhere else so it doesn't cost me .... (There are already a lot of other costs). Anyone ever done that? Rent your place, that you own free and clear, and to rent another place?

I can't go to the rural Vermont place full time, because it's not winterized and my neighbors there say it's not safe because my place is too isolated. (Dirt road off a dirt road off a dirt road.)

Being a girl, just want to add I am not phobic or fearful, but fed up after three years. My thinking is I should move so there is a better chance to catch the assholes.

I also want to see if I can find a way to make it fun, like see a place I've never explored before.

I can add a lot more, but there's too much to say and I didn't want to babble on. Anything I should consider, any ideas for making a bad situation better?

Thanks.

Kate
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Old 03-06-2010, 02:21 PM   #2
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Years ago, a friend had reason to call the police (I forget why) but I was there when they arrived. She lived in a questionable neighborhood, the police told her to move and she did, not out of the city but to a better neighborhood.

When an undercover cop (I made him) told me to get off a certain block where I was walking, I did so immediately. For all I know he may have had a sting in progress.

I have no advice for you (100+ times!) but maybe the forum's finest have some ideas.
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Old 03-06-2010, 02:22 PM   #3
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Wow. Maybe sell out and move to a larger city.

Ha
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Old 03-06-2010, 02:37 PM   #4
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Thanks.... I am trying to find a way out of a lousy situation that makes it better. I can't sell this house fast..... Full of crap and needs some maintenance. And one reason I stayed here so long is I hate the feeling of being run out of town...... So, I figured rent it for two years, see what happens in that time, and maybe move back, or sell then.

I don't know why, but fixing up a place to rent by June 1 doesn't feel as hard as fixing it up to sell!!

HA, I don't think a bigger city is the answer, not in New York. The NYSP is a state police force with legal jurisdiction everywhere, but policy overrides the law, and they stay out of the cities with their own police force. I have to think smaller city/town/suburbs, with state police agreements.

I'm thinking Saratoga.
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Old 03-06-2010, 02:39 PM   #5
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Thanks.... I am trying to find a way out of a lousy situation that makes it better. I can't sell this house fast..... Full of crap and needs some maintenance. And one reason I stayed here so long is I hate the feeling of being run out of town...... So, I figured rent it for two years, see what happens in that time, and maybe move back, or sell then.

I don't know why, but fixing up a place to rent by June 1 doesn't feel as hard as fixing it up to sell!!

HA, I don't think a bigger city is the answer, not in New York. The NYSP is a state police force with legal jurisdiction everywhere, but policy overrides the law, and they stay out of the cities with their own police force. I have to think smaller city/town/suburbs, with state police agreements.

I'm thinking Saratoga.
Nice place Kat, particularly if you like horses. Best of luck to you.

Ha
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Old 03-06-2010, 02:47 PM   #6
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Nice place Kat, particularly if you like horses. Best of luck to you.

Ha
Adirondacks (closer, anyway), NYC ballet in the summer, concerts. I like the horses, but it seems I only do that about every five years. Probably more if I live there!
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Old 03-06-2010, 03:28 PM   #7
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If the harassment can be verified/proven, I would think you'd have a good civil case. You probably already thought of that and you may not want to go through with the hassle, but you could use the money to help defray the cost of your move/putting a property up for sale/rent, etc. Just filing the suit might put a stop to the harassment.
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Old 03-06-2010, 04:08 PM   #8
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Thanks Sam. I have to go, no real chance of catching anyone if I don't. Part of the corruption I documented is command staff throwing out reports taken by cops after criminal incidents at my residence. There are witnesses, but the brazen command staff is throwing out the reports -- and cops actually come to my house later and tell me! DNA samples were taken and "lost". An officer in command staff recently was caught lying about things, where he had not talked to witnesses. It really blows my mind.

So I have to move, so that an investigation can actually happen if the harassers follow me. Status quo sucks too much.

As for a civil claim, it's not so easy in New York, but I think my chances got a lot better when I caught the commander lying, and I can tie actual damages to the outcome. Otherwise, in court they'd ask what the injury was.... were you injured?

It's no fun, but life can be this way I guess.
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Old 03-06-2010, 06:36 PM   #9
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Talk to very experienced attorney(s) in your area before you move. I agree it sounds like you have a pretty strong (though volatile) case. Don't assume that your only option is moving/taking a loss. Moving may not help your case either.
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Old 03-07-2010, 03:46 AM   #10
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This sounds very strange to me.... if some small local cops are breaking the law, there are state agencies that are there to handle it...

And there are even federal agencies that are there also...

But then again, they have to have broken the law... and they would have to prove they broke the law in court... if you can not get there, they have nothing to do...

I would not think, on the face of it, someone telling you to move is criminal... but I am not sure if it is the local police telling you or the state police... if it is the state police, then they are incompetent... they can do something without you moving...
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Old 03-07-2010, 05:11 AM   #11
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If you a have proof, a law suit can do wonders. The trick might be getting a lawyer to take it on for a cut and little money out of your pocket. If there is a law suit it probably will be publicized in the newspapers which will sometimes get public opinion against them. most citizens frown on cops who abuse their authority.

You can report it to the state authorities. Even it they do not pursue it, it will be on record. Just make sure you have your facts straight and do not exaggerate.
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Old 03-07-2010, 06:52 AM   #12
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TexasProud, there really isn't any oversight of local police at the state level. I've been researching this for a couple years. The way it works is a state agency will investigate if they are INVITED by the local agency. This doesn't address the situation where command staff is at fault. In this case, the chief was involved in the false arrest. The NYSP has a well regarded Internal Affairs Bureau, but they too want an invitation to investigate local police. Same with the Attorney General.

I've had a lot of contact with federal authorities, who say since it CAN be handled under state law, see the NYSP. It's a bit of a run around. That's why the NYSP says move out of the city, and move to a place we patrol.

Feds also said contact Washington, and see if they will send it back with orders to investigate. I guess the local FBI likes that situation, sent back. I haven't done that yet. Washington seems too far away. And I am sick of hassles.

Chinaco, I kept excellent records. It's the only thing I could control. I'll talk to a few lawyers, but I don't see much in the way of damages under NY law.
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Old 03-07-2010, 07:17 AM   #13
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Chinaco, I kept excellent records. It's the only thing I could control. I'll talk to a few lawyers, but I don't see much in the way of damages under NY law.
They may be just harassing you trying to shake you up. But still, you never can tell if they might step over the line. One alternative is to not fan the flames and hope they forget about it and just move on.

This type of situation really sucks. You might consider if you need to move out of their jurisdiction for a while if you wage the battle.

One thing you should consider... if you get into any type of legal problem (in that city), they will probably not give you the benefit of a doubt... They will probably throw every charge they can just to see if they stick. And they will probably lobby hard for the prosecutor to through the book at you. Keep in mind, even it all they do is cause you legal problems and expense, they will affect you.

A few ideas:

Talk to the office of the State Attorney General. See if you can file a complaint and if they will investigate.

One other thought, there may be some watchdog groups around that you can discuss the situation with. The power of a group of people can often carry more weight. If you can locate one, they may have attorneys that volunteer time (altruism to keep organizations from abusing power).

You will probably want to retain an attorney. You can probably talk with one and brief them on the situation (for little ... maybe no money). It would be best to consult with someone that will be in your corner if things did get out of hand. This is part of making others aware of what is occurring.

If you go the route of battling them, it will probably affect your life somewhat. They may step up their tactics if you are in the area where they have power.

Hopefully your livelihood is not tied to that city.
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Old 03-07-2010, 10:14 AM   #14
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I've been harassed in both places
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after I spoke up and helped get a false arrest dismissed
In my experience, police don't randomly choose citizens to attack and then persist 100 or more times. Is there something you are doing (legal I'm sure) that's attracting their attention? Hard for me to understand what's going on in the absence of additional details. Depending on what it is that seems to be attracting this behavior, there are different specifc agencies that may be interested in helping you.
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Old 03-07-2010, 11:19 AM   #15
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It makes no sense to me for the state police to say they would investigate if you move to an area patrolled by them. It sounds like they are blowing you off for whatever reason. What does you lawyer think of that suggestion?
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Old 03-07-2010, 11:20 AM   #16
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They may be just harassing you trying to shake you up. But still, you never can tell if they might step over the line. One alternative is to not fan the flames and hope they forget about it and just move on.

This type of situation really sucks. You might consider if you need to move out of their jurisdiction for a while if you wage the battle.

One thing you should consider... if you get into any type of legal problem (in that city), they will probably not give you the benefit of a doubt... They will probably throw every charge they can just to see if they stick. And they will probably lobby hard for the prosecutor to through the book at you. Keep in mind, even it all they do is cause you legal problems and expense, they will affect you.

A few ideas:

Talk to the office of the State Attorney General. See if you can file a complaint and if they will investigate.

One other thought, there may be some watchdog groups around that you can discuss the situation with. The power of a group of people can often carry more weight. If you can locate one, they may have attorneys that volunteer time (altruism to keep organizations from abusing power).

You will probably want to retain an attorney. You can probably talk with one and brief them on the situation (for little ... maybe no money). It would be best to consult with someone that will be in your corner if things did get out of hand. This is part of making others aware of what is occurring.

If you go the route of battling them, it will probably affect your life somewhat. They may step up their tactics if you are in the area where they have power.

Hopefully your livelihood is not tied to that city.
You are onto so many things, catching on fast!

I've had the situation of cops following me -- so I decided to go around the block and caught them! Twice!! But I want to stress there are really fine cops here too, and I would be nowhere without their filling me in. Cops actually come and tell me what command staff is doing breaking the law. One officer even signed a sworn affidavit about it!

I've had family in the local prosecutor's office for 35 years. The DA is staying out of it, until he has someone give him a suspect. (Early on, they gave me good advice.)

The Attorney General in NY has no oversight over police, unless assigned by the governor or invited by the chief of a local jurisdiction. The NY AG's website actually has a list of a hundred things they don't do.

My plan right now is to write to the Washington FBI and the Attorney General Civil Rights -- just to get it done, since an agent told me to. I have to think more about whether to follow the NYSP advice to move. I'm going to contact a couple lawyers too. I try to keep my perspective. Many people have been through worse than this.

Thanks!
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Old 03-07-2010, 11:31 AM   #17
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It makes no sense to me for the state police to say they would investigate if you move to an area patrolled by them. It sounds like they are blowing you off for whatever reason. What does you lawyer think of that suggestion?
Martha, I hear you. I don't get it either.

Awhile ago, an investigator in the DA's office told me to use a recorder, which is legal here. So, I recorded the captain of the NYSP Bureau of Criminal Investigations telling me "We have legal jurisdiction everywhere, but our policies override it."

They are very consistent telling me they have a long history of not going into the bigger cities that have their own police force. They see it as dangerous, with two forces. But I don't think they are being honest, because if you read the paper you see the NYSP goes where it wants to, even in the cities. Also, the people I dealt with don't wear uniforms or drive patrol cars, and it's not like a cavalry. They really just want to stay out of it -- but keep telling me to move.
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Old 03-07-2010, 04:18 PM   #18
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If it's a local police department in a NY city, who is harassing you in rural Vermont? If the local police are following you to a neighboring state to harass you that is defintely something the FBI ought to be interested in.

Meanwhile, I would call as many news folks as I could. Newspaper, radio and TV. Call your congressperson, local preachers, etc. Get as many folks aware as possible for safety's sake.

And document, document, document. Maybe put a video camera aimed at the street to see if they come by, put a cam in the grill of your car and rear window.

One thing to consider is whether the "good cop" visits are real or at the direction of the "bad cop". Maybe a way of finding out what you know and also feeding you misinformation. Just something to keep in mind. I'd be very wary of that aspect. Not many cops will jeopardize their job and own safety to help out a casual acquaintance.

Not knowing many details, that is just possibilities to consider.
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Old 03-07-2010, 10:04 PM   #19
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One of the things that you CAN do is to sue....

Here in Houston, there were two brothers who had some kind of police problems (the police did something wrong and either a cover up or something... I am very very light on the facts as I did not follow it at all)... after they filed the lawsuit, the police would follow them and around to try and catch them in something... this came out in trial (or on the news, not sure...)... but it was a BIG blowup... they won MILLIONS of dollars...

I doubt that anybody in the Houston police paid with their job... might be interesting to know... any of the cops around here from Houston that might know this case
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Old 03-07-2010, 10:05 PM   #20
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Also... see if you can get one of the news investigative reporters on the story.... they LOVE this kind of stuff since Marvin Zindler did the Little Whore House in Texas reporting a long time ago...
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