Death of the Twinkie?

[pb4uski]

....Lots o' blame to go around, but I think the "legacy" costs of pensions and such are being "blamed" for much of the problem, not so much current costs. Much the same as the much maligned Postal Service...

+1 From what I have read it seems that the required contributions to the multiple employer pension plan is killing them as the burden of other employers in the plan who have gone out of business has pushed the cost of all plan participants onto Hostess (rather than just the cost of legacy Hostess company employees. The bankruptcy filing indicates:

Because their workforce is heavily unionized, the Debtors also participate in 40 multiemployer pension plans, which, by law, exist only where one or more employers each contribute to a pension plan pursuant to one or more collectively-bargained agreements. The
Debtors' cash contribution obligations to these plans go beyond amounts attributable to the retirement benefits for the Debtors' own workforce; they also encompass the contributions attributable to the retirement benefits of the workforces of other employers who have ceased to exist or have otherwise withdrawn from the plans. By statute, the plans are structured to place the financial burdens of all of the plan's retirees upon those remaining companies that have active union employees. Over the last several decades, the number of companies and the active employee base supporting these pension plans have shrunk significantly, thus increasing the burden on the companies, such as Hostess, that remain.

 

[NW-Bound]

Thanks for the info. It is obvious that the system ensures that even the strongest employer cannot and will not be left standing.

Where else but on this forum does a guy who does not get out much like me learn things like this?

Over the last several decades, the number of companies and the active employee base supporting these pension plans have shrunk significantly, thus increasing the burden on the companies, such as Hostess, that remain.

 

[Dawg52]

No Twinkies? What am I suppose to put into my deep fryer?

 

[NW-Bound]

Oreo cookies, of course!

Or are they made by the same company?

 

[tryan]

I running out for a 10 year supply ... 1/2 the shelf life

 

[Tyro]

twinkies | eBay

hoarding and price gouging.. the government needs to intervene now!

Is this the beginning of the "Twinkie Bubble"?

 

[Donzo]

Is this the beginning of the "Twinkie Bubble"?

No "wheee" yet concerning Twinkies......

 

[NW-Bound]

Eh, there are people with Twinkies and people without. I'll say the people currently without are just envious.

 

[ls99]

The folks who loose their jobs I feel for. Can't say I'll miss any of the company's products, though I am sure many will.

OTOH I never had a twinkie, save for the nick name of my Argosy camper, which I sold.

As for wonder bread, one of the first derisive concepts I formulated in English, once I learned the language was: It is a wonder they can call it bread.

Before arriving in the US I was used to eating heavy dense bread, one slice with butter or lard would make a meal. Mostly lard, my mother could only afford to buy butter for Christmas or birthday.

 

[easysurfer]

CIA sex scandal....check

Upcoming fiscal cliff .... check

No more Twinkies ... Oh no!!

Mad dash to buy up Hostess treats before they run out

 

[Purron]

Is this the beginning of the "Twinkie Bubble"?

I just hope the guvmint can prevent the "Twinkie Cliff".

 

[JakeBrake]

I haven't bought Hostess products in years, but on my trip to my (the nearest) Walmart Supercenter yesterday, I thought I would pick up a few Hostess products. It turns out that my Walmart had NO Hostess products that I could find or recognize. Now, I don't know is they have ever had any. There WERE plenty of Hostess knock-offs mainly Little Debbie. I didn't buy any of those, either.

I also shop a couple of discount bread stores, but I've never seen Hostess products there, but plenty of knock-offs.

 

[ziggy29]

The talk of "Twinkie hoarding" reminds me of what we went through here recently with "Dublin Dr. Pepper". Once the Dublin plant lost the authority to produce this (they were apparently selling outside of their allowed sales territory) and "the end of Dublin Dr. Pepper" was announced, suddenly the price skyrocketed. A 6-pack of bottles, which usually cost something like $4.99, went to $14.99 overnight... while supplies lasted.

 

[ziggy29]

twinkies | eBay

hoarding and price gouging.. the government needs to intervene now!

Gouging for a non-essential item like Twinkies is (IMO) hugely morally different than hoarding water, fuel, batteries and foodstuffs before a major natural disaster with the intent to sell them to victimized families for 10x what you paid for them.

Speculate and price gouge on Ding Dongs all you want.

 

[ERD50]

I know you take it upon yourself to be this board's "staunch defender of the free market" ...

Wouldn't want to disappoint you, read on...

Gouging for a non-essential item like Twinkies is (IMO) hugely morally different than hoarding water, fuel, batteries and foodstuffs before a major natural disaster with the intent to sell them to victimized families for 10x what you paid for them.

Speculate and price gouge on Ding Dongs all you want.

While price gouging does sound morally wrong, if you stand back and analyze it, it can be a positive, and laws against it can be negative. I changed my mind on the subject after reading some of these types of explanations:

Financial Tip of the Week: Price Gouging
Price Gouging Saves Lives in a Hurricane - David M. Brown - Mises Daily
Price gouging - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Neoliberal economists Thomas Sowell and Walter E. Williams, among others, argue against laws that interfere with large price changes. According to this view, high prices can be viewed as information for use in determining the best allocation of scarce resources for which there are multiple uses. Many laissez-faire economists oppose price gouging legislation and argue that it prevents goods from going to individuals who value them the most. For example, after a storm has felled numerous trees in a locality, a rise in the price of chain saws will discourage their purchase by people with only a minor need for them, making them more available for those with the strongest need. Problems during the Siege of Paris (1870–1871), which critics attribute to price restrictions, are often held up as another example. With price gouging laws in place, producers are only able to charge a set price, then they have little additional incentive to increase supply to adversely impacted area; if producers are able to make extra profit then they will increase supply.

-ERD50

 

[ziggy29]

While price gouging does sound morally wrong, if you stand back and analyze it, it can be a positive, and laws against it can be negative.

And once again, just because I think something is morally wrong doesn't mean I think it should be *legally* wrong. Not everything that is immoral is, or should be, illegal. Again, you seem to be acting as if any criticism of immoral behavior in the "free market" (or at least what one person considers immoral) is the same as someone advocating that "there ought to be a law." This is presumptuous and false.

There are plenty of things I find immoral which I don't believe should be illegal.

 

[mystang52]

I can't help but conclude that Twinkies, and the other Hostess products, have enough of a consumer following that their name (and recipe) has significant value. I'm sure there is another bakery company already assessing the value, how much they want to pay etc.
I'll bet we see, in 6-9 months, an advertising blitz promoting their reincarnation.

 

[NW-Bound]

Gouging for a non-essential item like Twinkies is (IMO) hugely morally different than hoarding water, fuel, batteries and foodstuffs before a major natural disaster with the intent to sell them to victimized families for 10x what you paid for them.

Speculate and price gouge on Ding Dongs all you want.

I dunno! What if some consumers are Twinkie addicts, and will go into withdrawal if they do not get their daily fix?


PS. OK, enough joking around for me on this subject. Some people who are not used to this may just take my posts seriously.

 

[ERD50]

And once again, just because I think something is morally wrong doesn't mean I think it should be *legally* wrong. Not everything that is immoral is, or should be, illegal. Again, you seem to be acting as if any criticism of immoral behavior in the "free market" (or at least what one person considers immoral) is the same as someone advocating that "there ought to be a law." This is presumptuous and false.

There are plenty of things I find immoral which I don't believe should be illegal.

But if you read the articles, it would seem that price gouging is not morally wrong. That was the point I was trying to make. (edit/add) Maybe you disagree, but I think they make a pretty strong case - I was 'converted' several years ago.

Of course, if one agrees with that, it would lead to the point that laws against it are morally wrong, but it's all the same thing.

-ERD50

 

[youbet]

Some people who are not used to this may just take my posts seriously.

Naw....... Little chance of that!

 

[NW-Bound]

I certainly hope so. However, stranger things have happened. One thing in life I have learned is one never knows.

I tend to mix serious discussions with jokes, and even some of my long-time friends are often confused. One said that he sometimes could not tell if I really meant something or was simply sarcastic. I guess it was my fault as a writer, if I confused the reader.

 

[Htown Harry]

Beer and Twinkies, anyone?

Pabst Owner Metropoulos Considers Bid for Hostess Brands - Bloomberg

 

[veremchuka]

....
I'm merely pointing out that businesses act the same as us consumers do. We look for the best value at the best price point for our needs. That holds for buying labor, or buying dessert. I have trouble criticizing a business for acting as I do.

......

IME, I have seen very few cases where the free market was not the best solution for allocating resources. Why not defend it?

-ERD50

Free market capitalism is the best path to prosperity. Larry Kudlow

There are 2 unions involved, the teamsters accepted modest pay and benefit cuts but the bakers union refused so now 18,500 people will lose their jobs plus all the ancillary jobs related to these products.

This country is filled with people who'd be happy to work for $8 an hour, the products will be bought and made in non union shops as it should be.

I think I ate a Twinkie when I was in 4th or 5th grade, they suck. Ding Dongs and Yodels were edible when I was high (once we couldn't find anything to eat so it was a peanut butter and pickle sandwich but not sure if it was on Wonder Bread) but Hostess doesn't make anything I care to eat.

 

[MasterBlaster]

Twinkies May live on After All

It's not over till it's over !

Twinkies hope? Hostess puts off liquidation, agrees to mediation - latimes.com

At a bankruptcy court hearing Monday in New York, 82-year-old Hostess had planned to ask permission to start shutting down its business. Instead, Judge Robert Drain urged the company and the Bakery, Confectionery, Tobacco Workers and Grain Millers International union to consider mediation.

 

[ERD50]

It's not over till it's over !

Twinkies hope? Hostess puts off liquidation, agrees to mediation - latimes.com

Would be interesting to be a fly on the wall in that room!

I can just picture the CEO - "We told you we'd have to shut down if you didn't compromise. We told you we weren't bluffing. The Teamsters told you the same thing. A bunch of other people lost their jobs because of you. So now you want to talk? Now?!?!? ...... Sure, let's make a deal."


-ERD50