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Re: Did Bubba Blow It?
Old 05-10-2006, 11:54 PM   #41
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Re: Did Bubba Blow It?

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Originally Posted by samclem
Just to police up another loose end--while the Korean War has not officially ended, I'd urge anyone to look at which side has had more "tears"--the "occupied" South or the North? I can hardly think of a better example for staying the course when the course is a good one (as is the present US course in Iraq and Afghanistan)
I am not sure why the location of crying foreigners has anything to do with US responsibilities. Maybe you could explain?

Ha
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Re: Did Bubba Blow It?
Old 05-11-2006, 04:37 AM   #42
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Re: Did Bubba Blow It?

HaHa,
The "lengthy occupation by ground troops" --> "tears" association was Brewer's, from approx 14 posts back.

I was following-up on "lets-retire's" observation that some ground occupations have turned out very well for the "occupied" countries. It has a lot to do with who is doing the occupying.

To answer your specific question: I don't think there a link between crying foreigners and US responsibilities.
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Re: Did Bubba Blow It?
Old 05-11-2006, 06:36 AM   #43
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Re: Did Bubba Blow It?

Quote:
Originally Posted by lets-retire

This situation is similar to defering maintenance on your house for years. Eventually you either have to repair it or replace it. In this situation Bush has chosen to repair.
Actually, it seems more like taking out a second mortgage to fortify the house (maybe a needed fortification) while the roof, the furnace, and the hot water heater fall apart. Oh, and at the same time, you are running up huge debts on the credit cards to buy hookers and booze for rich friends at the clubs.
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Re: Did Bubba Blow It?
Old 05-11-2006, 07:18 AM   #44
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Re: Did Bubba Blow It?

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Originally Posted by Nords
Bite your tongue!* I went through the post-Cold-War drawdown and once is more than enough.* Aren't you the guy who worries that we'll cut too far and have to institute a draft?* That same fear keeps waking up the entire JCS at night, too.

Actually the biggest part of the military budget is personnel.* So the military would feel a lot safer if it was half its current size, too, and it's heading that way yet again.* Pretty soon the submarine force will actually have as many berths as crewmembers...
Uh, you misunderstand me, perhaps. I don't want any standing military. Big standing armed forces is too much of a temptation to politicians ("what good is it if I never get to use it?"). But I will allow that I am "unusual" in my views.
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Re: Did Bubba Blow It?
Old 05-11-2006, 08:08 AM   #45
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Re: Did Bubba Blow It?

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Originally Posted by Cut-Throat
And since I am in favor of Women's lib, I also believe in drafting women!

Right now the only choice is for the poor. -"If I want to go to college, I have to go to Iraq first"

Not much of choice - IMHO!
That is the way I (way too poor otherwise) got to college. Recommended for all. Oh, and millions have done the G.I. Bill route; one of the most successful government programs ever. Why, it actually requires that you DO something to GET something! Wow, a very novel idea, don't ya think?
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Re: Did Bubba Blow It?
Old 05-11-2006, 10:21 AM   #46
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Re: Did Bubba Blow It?

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Originally Posted by lets-retire
The spending issue is a very simple argument. There are some things I don't agree with that were implemented, but Clinton under funded major agencies in the government.
http://www.amconmag.com/2004/2004_02_16/feature.html

"One shocking aspect of the past three years is that so many prominent conservatives donít seem to care that Bush has splurged like crazy and added over $1 trillion to the nationís debt in the process. The Republican Party in Congress, despite an ill-deserved reputation for favoring fiscal discipline, has done nothing to prevent Bush from dragging us into a fiscal morass. Instead, the GOP has participated wholeheartedly in Bushís LBJ-like largesse."
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Re: Did Bubba Blow It?
Old 05-11-2006, 11:28 AM   #47
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Re: Did Bubba Blow It?

You didn't bring anything new to the debate. Like I said I don't agree with some of the spending increases he has done. But your previous statement was that he is spending much more than Clinton. I outlined the reason for this. In fact the article even quoted Rummy about Clinton's "procurement holiday".
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Re: Did Bubba Blow It?
Old 05-11-2006, 12:19 PM   #48
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Re: Did Bubba Blow It?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Eagle43
That is the way I (way too poor otherwise) got to college.* Recommended for all.* Oh, and millions have done the G.I. Bill route; one of the most successful government programs ever.* Why, it actually requires that you DO something to GET something!* Wow, a very novel idea, don't ya think?
Imagine if the Heinlein system was adopted-- only military veterans (or the Nords modification, those who served as conscientious objectors) could earn the right to vote.
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Re: Did Bubba Blow It?
Old 05-11-2006, 01:02 PM   #49
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Re: Did Bubba Blow It?

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Originally Posted by samclem
* I can hardly think of a better example for staying the course when the course is a good one (as is the present US course in Iraq and Afghanistan)
Now that seems like a man with no sons. Would you stay the course with YOUR son in Iraq? Shredder
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Re: Did Bubba Blow It?
Old 05-11-2006, 01:17 PM   #50
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Re: Did Bubba Blow It?

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Originally Posted by Shredder
Now that seems like a man with no sons. Would you stay the course with YOUR son in Iraq?* * * * * * *Shredder
Shredder,

* * *My nephew the Army Ranger opened the Afghanistan war, went back for a Tora Bora encore, and then turned his attention to Iraq (an extended sojourn before the rest of the war started).* Next year he'll finish West Point, take the Ranger school (again), and go back to finish the job.* He's the embodiment of grunt boots on the ground.* He can't imagine anything other than "stay the course" because of the warmth & appreciation of the civilians who he worked with in both countries.* He isn't about to let insurgents or politicians screw up a job that he's so close to finishing.

* * *Our kid is eligible for an appointment to the Naval Academy.* I could rant & rave that she's out of her freakin' mind... or I could let her do her own due diligence and let her live with the consequences of her own decision. Her 8th-grade analysis of the situation is that the politics isn't helping. I think her analysis displays more sophistication than most of what I read in the press.
*
* * *I think Samclem has demonstrated that he's paid his dues, and I think that he'd be honored to let his kids make their own decisions.*

* * *What dues have you paid?
* *
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Re: Did Bubba Blow It?
Old 05-11-2006, 02:56 PM   #51
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Re: Did Bubba Blow It?

Failing to stay the course makes all the lives lost in Afganistan and Iraq wasted lives.
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Re: Did Bubba Blow It?
Old 05-12-2006, 09:15 AM   #52
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Re: Did Bubba Blow It?

Shredder,
I have one daughter who is a junior in HS. She's seen a lot of military life through 20+ years as a USAF "brat", and she's in a very good position to make up her own mind about military service. I'll give her all the information I can, then support her 100% if she makes the decision to seek a commission or enlist. I know that would likely put her into the present fight, and I'd worry about her every day--and be proud of her beyond words.

By the way, you can forget about the "sons" stuff. While there are no female Rangers yet, there are plenty of women in the fight. Carbombs do not discriminate by gender.

I've served in Afghanistan, and have many friends now there and in Iraq.

I'm not one for blindly pursuing a policy or war that can't be won, regardless of what has been invested to that point. I believe we've produced good results in both Iraq and Afghanistan and they'll be longstanding results if we don't quit prematurely.

I'm with Nords's nephew--what I hear from guys firsthand does not match what I see on the news. I'm especially struck by the fixation on suicide bombing casualties as a metric of how we're "losing in Iraq." Stupid. It's as dumb as the US use of the VC bodycount as a gauge of our progress in the Vietnam war--we (and the ARVN) inflicted far more casualties than we took, we won every major battle-but we still lost the war, and the VC body count was irrelevant. In Iraq, there is big political and social progress, the police forces are getting trained (too slowly, but it is working), AND we are cleaning the clock of a lot of bad actors. All the important stuff is going in the right direction for us, but what makes the news is that 10 people died when a car blew up yesterday.
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Re: Did Bubba Blow It?
Old 05-12-2006, 11:48 AM   #53
 
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Re: Did Bubba Blow It?

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Failing to stay the course makes all the lives lost in Iraq wasted lives.
History will show that no matter what course we will follow, this will be a total waste
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Re: Did Bubba Blow It?
Old 05-12-2006, 11:54 AM   #54
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Re: Did Bubba Blow It?

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Originally Posted by Cut-Throat
History will show that no matter what course we will follow, this will be a total waste
Oh, c'mon CT, you know that certain segments of the political spectrum will never admit that it was anything but another wild success. Of course, the rest of us who live in the real world don't have to agree with them.
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Re: Did Bubba Blow It?
Old 05-12-2006, 02:43 PM   #55
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Re: Did Bubba Blow It?

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Originally Posted by Nords
Imagine if the Heinlein system was adopted-- only military veterans (or the Nords modification, those who served as conscientious objectors) could earn the right to vote.
it's been years and my heinlein is quite rusty, but does a recruited conscientious objector exemplify his flirtation with social darwinism or transnational security? as he didn't seem to care much for government in any form outside of peacekeeper, i'm not sure how much he valued our vote.

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