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Diesels!
Old 11-14-2007, 05:43 PM   #1
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Diesels!

Recently picked up my latest vehicle a 2006 Jeep Liberty Diesel. They only made them in 05 & 06 and were not sold new in California so I had to buy used. So far I just love this Jeep (also have a 1998 Cherokee and older son has an older Grand Cherokee). The diesel really hums. I know a lot of people do not live diesels but I love them. The other one I owned, seems like a lifetime ago, was a 1966 Mercedes 200D bought it used and got 5 years & a lot of miles out of it.. The new Jeep is much more powerful as it is turbocharged. I do not know how long it will last, the Mercedes was about 300K miles when it degenerated from rust & non engine ailments.

Since diesel engines are more efficient and can run biodiesel I wonder why they are not encouraged more in this country? I believe that taxes not production cost make the price more than unleaded.

Anyone else out there a diesel fan?
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Old 11-14-2007, 05:49 PM   #2
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I have a 2001 turbocharged Caterpillar diesel. It runs great, but I'm not at all happy that diesel is selling for $0.40 a gallon more than regular gasoline. Takes a little zing out of that diesel hum.
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Old 11-14-2007, 05:50 PM   #3
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I have a diesel Jetta that I love a lot. Regularly gets over 50 miles a gallon. Compared to an old diesel VW I drove years ago, this one actually starts when it is cold. It has started in 30 below zero weather, but complains a bit.

I understand more diesels will be coming out because of the new low sulfur fuel and emissions rules.
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Old 11-15-2007, 05:30 AM   #4
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I wondered through the MB showroom last month just to see what was happening. While there I looked at the E-Series 2008 models. They had a "BLUE TECH" model on the floor. This thing is rated at 35 MPG but is pure diesel. While talking to the omnipresent sales person I commented about the noise of a diesel. He said listen to this and started the thing up right there in the showroom. I was impressed on how quiet and clean burning this thing was. It was a pretty nice car, large, heavy and of course new. No I did not buy the thing but still it was nice.
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Old 11-15-2007, 06:48 AM   #5
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I wondered through the MB showroom last month just to see what was happening. While there I looked at the E-Series 2008 models. They had a "BLUE TECH" model on the floor. This thing is rated at 35 MPG but is pure diesel. While talking to the omnipresent sales person I commented about the noise of a diesel. He said listen to this and started the thing up right there in the showroom. I was impressed on how quiet and clean burning this thing was. It was a pretty nice car, large, heavy and of course new. No I did not buy the thing but still it was nice.

Well they should be building small diesels for the masses here in the states. But Nope stupid rules, but wait the fuel is now sulfur free. Oh the american public does not want them they want stupid large SUVs and pick up trucks and want to spend upwards of 5 6 or 7 dollars a gallon for gasoline. No leadership anyplace here in the states.
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Old 11-15-2007, 08:08 AM   #6
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Would an environmentalist want to be driving one of the current diesels offered in the USA? A simple clue to that is that they are not sold in California!

We are not yet on ultra-low sulfur diesel - without that, the diesels can't really be cleaned up like a gasoline powered vehicle. Yes, we are behind in legislation on this. Our legislators are busy passing changes to make our tax code even more complex than it is, rather than addressing tough issues like this.

Air pollution - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Turn the language around, and current diesels are responsible for these negatives:

Quote:
The US EPA estimates that a proposed set of changes in diesel engine technology (Tier 2) could result in 12,000 fewer premature mortalities, 15,000 fewer heart attacks, 6,000 fewer emergency room visits by children with asthma, and 8,900 fewer respiratory-related hospital admissions each year in the United States.
Tier (emission standard) - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
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Ultra-low sulfur diesel began to be restricted to a maximum 15 ppm in 2006 and refiners are to be 100% compliant with that level by 2010.
newguy - do you *really* believe that the 'leadership' can make the public 'want' something? The majority of the public will 'want' to conserve when it hits their pocketbook, probably not before. Did 'WIP' buttons stop inflation?

The 'leadership' needs to act, if we want to conserve. Raise prices - period. If that is what we want.

-ERD50
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Old 11-15-2007, 08:58 AM   #7
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Well they should be building small diesels for the masses here in the states.
We don't have the distribution network for diesel fuel that Europe does, but our clean air standards for cars are a LOT more strict.

I don't think the average American comes up with "I want an SUV" when they'relying in bed thinking about it. I think it's the marketing wizards that make the commericals that convince them they need an SUV.

Something like 85% or all SUV's NEVER go offroad.............which defeats one of the main reasons to have one.............
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Old 11-15-2007, 09:15 AM   #8
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We don't have the distribution network for diesel fuel that Europe does...
I don't know about your neck of the woods, but around here a majority of gas stations sell diesel fuel. Of course we're infested with lots of diesel pickup trucks.

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Something like 85% or all SUV's NEVER go offroad.............which defeats one of the main reasons to have one.............
Careful. I think that statement might also equally apply to financial advisers...
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Old 11-15-2007, 09:27 AM   #9
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Careful. I think that statement might also equally apply to financial advisers...
Based on the news articles I read, most Americans DON'T need an advisor, because they HAVE NO MONEY, so I guess you are right about 90% of all Americans..............
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Old 11-15-2007, 10:50 AM   #10
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The 'leadership' needs to act, if we want to conserve. Raise prices - period. If that is what we want.

-ERD50
No need to do that. Prices will rise automatically as demand outstrips supply and consumers bid up prices attempting to grab a share of a twindling resource.

I built a proforma budget up using $9 gas prices and driving 20k miles per year at 20mpg. Expensive, but with planning we can still "see the USA" via automobile or small RV. It's an incremental $6k/yr vs. $3 gas.

No doubt, we're going to see some sky high energy prices coming up and whether you can afford a lot of petro or not is up to you and your planning and your allocation priorities.

Oh yeah....... Had a 1980 VW Rabbit Diesel. 50+mpg on the highway. But, ya better put new glow plugs in every fall if you want to start with confidence in Chicago winter weather! I understand the technology is better now.
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Old 11-15-2007, 10:58 AM   #11
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I have a 2001 turbocharged Caterpillar diesel. It runs great, but I'm not at all happy that diesel is selling for $0.40 a gallon more than regular gasoline. Takes a little zing out of that diesel hum.
I heard (now, there's a source of good information!) that the gov likes to tax diesel higher because so much is sold road tax free for use in agriculture and construction. Of course, the road tax free stuff frequently finds it's way into on-road vehicles!

Example: Not many farmers keep two diesel tanks, one with taxed fuel and one with not-taxed fuel. Wanna bet the not-taxed fuel makes it into the farmers diesel pickup?
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Old 11-15-2007, 11:00 AM   #12
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No need to do that. Prices will rise automatically as demand outstrips supply and consumers bid up prices attempting to grab a share of a twindling resource.
We could just let supply/demand take care of it. And maybe we should.

I just tend to think, that in this case, a little artificial price manipulation (setting a floor price and moving it up over time) by our govt might help to make that a steady, predictable rise that people could adapt to, rather than large swings. It might be easier for us overall?

Part of that is complicated by the fact that the price of fossil fuel does not include the environmental damage it does (tough to put a $ figure on though). So it appears 'cheap' relative to more environmentally benign products. So, it might not be price manipulation as much as it is trying to make it reflect it's 'true' price?

No matter what approach is taken, I am confident that our legislators will screw it up ;(

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Old 11-15-2007, 11:04 AM   #13
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Example: Not many farmers keep two diesel tanks, one with taxed fuel and one with not-taxed fuel. Wanna bet the not-taxed fuel makes it into the farmers diesel pickup?
That would NEVER happen! NEVER, I tell you! NEVER!

Farmers are the backbone of this great country, the nerve of you, making accusations like that! You commie!

-ERD50 (ummmm, yes, I lived on a farm for a while, farm gasoline had lower taxes too, Or at least that's what I heard )
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Old 11-15-2007, 12:17 PM   #14
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We had a Diesel Rabbit too. Cried when it died.
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Old 11-15-2007, 03:14 PM   #15
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I recently picked up this 2004 Ford Mondeo Estate for my growing family. It's a 5 speed diesel. It has the TDDI engine which is the predecessor of the TDCI which is what Ford uses now. I love it so far. I get around 40 MPG which is great considering the cars size. No problems in the -10C (14F) weather either. They "winterize" the diesel sold at the filling stations.

Diesels are very popular here and you can find virtually any car/truck/van with multiple diesel engine choices.


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Old 11-15-2007, 03:19 PM   #16
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Example: Not many farmers keep two diesel tanks, one with taxed fuel and one with not-taxed fuel. Wanna bet the not-taxed fuel makes it into the farmers diesel pickup?
It's a federal $0K fine if they catch you. Boy do the farmers get mad. It's their right to not pay taxes.

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Old 11-15-2007, 10:35 PM   #17
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Like REWahoo; I have a 400 hp Cummins ISP deisel engine to feed with over priced fuel. The ISP is also a very clean engine with very low particulate. I don't pretent to compare a 400hp motorhome engine with a care engine for fuel economy but the issue is price and I hate to have to pay more for diesel than for gasoline which requires more refining.
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Old 11-15-2007, 11:04 PM   #18
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Since diesel engines are more efficient and can run biodiesel I wonder why they are not encouraged more in this country? I believe that taxes not production cost make the price more than unleaded.
  1. Gas is Cheap (that one makes me very popular around the water cooler)
  2. We have NO energy policy
  3. The engines are cleaner now (at least when new), but fueling them is still unpleasant
So...which diesel do they use? Is it from Daimler?
If you buy diesel in an area where big rigs buy, it is priced at or below reg unleaded. Shop around. Locations that only serve automobile tend to price diesel at or above premium.
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Old 11-15-2007, 11:26 PM   #19
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Since diesel engines are more efficient and can run biodiesel I wonder why they are not encouraged more in this country?
I'm not certain we can grow enough oil crops to produce enough oil to make much of a dent in fossil oil needs.

The stories about using french fry oil are great, and individuals might be able to do that on the cheap, but I'm not sure it will go very far in supplying the country.

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Old 11-15-2007, 11:47 PM   #20
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Did 'WIP' buttons stop inflation?
-ERD50
The button was actually WIN -Whip Inflation Now.

I think I may still have a couple of them.

Ha
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