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Old 11-17-2012, 10:15 AM   #61
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In recent conversations with my father, he's expressed the position that someone who is "gifted" or might have higher aptitude for success, has some what of a moral obligation to do a job that is deemed more worthwhile, or more important.
Ah, yes... "With great power comes great responsibility."
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Old 11-17-2012, 11:17 AM   #62
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In any case, the whole preposition that you owe the universe just because you are not dumb and should therefore work ntil death is preposterous.
We're just not gifted enough to understand that logic...
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Old 11-17-2012, 11:28 AM   #63
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The OP's question is impossible to answer without knowing the purpose of life. Without a purpose/goal/approach set by someone smarter than us, there is no yardstick by which to know the "correct" way to live it.
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Old 11-17-2012, 12:13 PM   #64
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The OP's question is impossible to answer without knowing the purpose of life.
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Old 11-17-2012, 12:21 PM   #65
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Parallel questions:

- If you are especially fertile do you have a 'moral obligation' to have children?
- If you are butt ugly do you have a moral obligation to stay out of public view?
- if you are...

OK, I'll stop now.
That is too funny!
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Old 11-17-2012, 01:21 PM   #66
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Me too.

But I think it is narrow-minded to assume that paid work is the only way for someone to have a positive impact on the world.
Yeah, this. I can understand why, if someone is making a real, positive impact on society with their work, one might be tempted to think they should keep working even they no longer need to financially. (I'm assuming here that their particular "gift" isn't readily replaceable; otherwise, they might be better off morally letting someone else have the job who needs it more.)

Just the same, we own our own lives, and there are limits to what other people (and society) can reasonably expect us to sacrifice for the "greater good" if it's not what we want to do personally.
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Old 11-17-2012, 01:28 PM   #67
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My friend is gifted in height being over 6 feet tall compared to my 5 feet 9 inches. His two sisters (also tall) insist that as a tall single man he should only date tall women since there are plenty of shorter guys like me for the other women. So, I guess the answer is yes. And, my friend must date long legged, statuesque beauties for the good of society. Poor fellow!
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Old 11-17-2012, 01:41 PM   #68
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Here are the data. Based on gross earnings, assuming hers were average, the subsidy would be equivalent to just over 2 years of full time work.

CIHI - Physician supply increasing twice as quickly as Canadian population
My comments were based on kumquat's statement that, at 55, her total earnings had not exceeded the amount she received as subsidies.

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Considering that she has had a subsidy about equal to her earnings, I'd say she has a "moral obligation" to work more.
Perhaps the example that kumquat used was not typical.
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Old 11-17-2012, 01:46 PM   #69
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My friend is gifted in height being over 6 feet tall compared to my 5 feet 9 inches. His two sisters (also tall) insist that as a tall single man he should only date tall women since there are plenty of shorter guys like me for the other women. So, I guess the answer is yes. And, my friend must date long legged, statuesque beauties for the good of society. Poor fellow!
This assumes men have to be taller than the women they pair up with. IMO, this is a stupid social convention which, the sooner we get over it, the better.

(He says, being all of 5' 7.5" and was tired of being rejected by 2/3 of women in his single days based on height alone -- and wound up marrying a woman who is 5' 9" anyway.)
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"Hey, for every ten dollars, that's another hour that I have to be in the work place. That's an hour of my life. And my life is a very finite thing. I have only 'x' number of hours left before I'm dead. So how do I want to use these hours of my life? Do I want to use them just spending it on more crap and more stuff, or do I want to start getting a handle on it and using my life more intelligently?" -- Joe Dominguez (1938 - 1997)

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Old 11-17-2012, 02:20 PM   #70
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I can see both POVs, but I know there's only one acceptable answer here. This is hardly the place to hear both sides, sorta like asking about the second amendment at an NRA meeting. The question really isn't whether or not any of us are irreplaceable (micro), maybe it's more about the what difference the ratio of productive citizens to non-producing citizens has on our economy/financial well-being (macro)...
Yes, it is true that a society where the idle people outnumber the workers will develop some problems. This demographic cliff will haunt nations all around the world soon.

On the other hand, if I continue to work, I would demand to be remunerated. And if my means improve, I would tend to consume more. I am no saint. If I work hard (and to be gifted on top of that!), I would want to be well-paid. And then, I would spend more.

I do not see anything wrong with cutting short my working life, and reducing my expenses to match my curtailed means. If society wants me to work longer, I can be bribed. An increase of 50% of pay will do it. I would work a couple more years.
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Old 11-17-2012, 06:03 PM   #71
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It makes sense for people to marry people the same height. That way you aren't constantly having to readjust the driver's seat.

Who were all these dames who actually told you they didn't approve of your height? Did no one ever tell them the polite response to an unwanted offer is "Thanks very much, I'm not interested"?

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This assumes men have to be taller than the women they pair up with. IMO, this is a stupid social convention which, the sooner we get over it, the better.

(He says, being all of 5' 7.5" and was tired of being rejected by 2/3 of women in his single days based on height alone -- and wound up marrying a woman who is 5' 9" anyway.)
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Old 11-17-2012, 07:49 PM   #72
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Mention of the "moral obligation" of middle-age doc to continue practicing reminded me of study suggesting perhaps 100,000 annually are killed in US alone by medical errors-
Medical errors kill almost 100000 Americans a year
Perhaps MORE docs should ER (where's that sarcasm font?)

But seriously- Just what moral giant (or mental midget) decided one's "worth" or "benefit" to society must only be defined by their j@b title Many who are ER'ed contribute far more to the common good than some who are still collecting a paycheck for minimal (or negative) productivity.
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Old 11-18-2012, 07:51 AM   #73
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Well I am called "Doctor" and I practice medicine. I consider it a privilege to serve all my patients. I also consider it a privilege to volunteer at free clinics here and abroad. I like to think about these non profit activities as a "moral duty" to help others, but it does not feel like a "moral obligation" that society is imposing on me. Not sure if this makes sense or what.
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Old 11-18-2012, 08:27 AM   #74
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To me, there are far to many working who think they are gifted, but oh well, that makes the workplace all the more amusing
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Old 11-18-2012, 08:31 AM   #75
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Gifted? I have found the world kept turning after I quit working. Very few people make a difference in their job. Except in their own mind.
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Old 11-18-2012, 08:35 AM   #76
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To me, there are far to many working who think they are gifted, but oh well, that makes the workplace all the more amusing
+1

We are also forgetting about those with gifts, but not the "good" kind. In other words, the "gifted a$$hat". You can tell where they've been, much in the same way you can tell where a tornado touched down during a storm.
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Old 11-18-2012, 09:20 AM   #77
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+1

We are also forgetting about those with gifts, but not the "good" kind. In other words, the "gifted a$$hat". You can tell where they've been, much in the same way you can tell where a tornado touched down during a storm.
Wow. You knew my former boss. Small world.
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Old 11-18-2012, 09:58 AM   #78
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Canada is not the only place where doctor's education and training are government subsidized. Anyone doing residency training in the USA is essentially paid by Medicare without which there would be no residency programs. There was an editorial (in the LA or NY Times?) about this that I looked for and cannot find. The basic argument was that doctors have an obligation to NOT retire early because society through the government invests so much in their training.
As a physician who collected those government salaries during residency back when residency meant 80-100 hour work weeks and therefore translated into a paltry hourly salary--and as someone who has since paid top $ income tax brackets, my reaction to that is---
. As someone else said, if there was going to be a more specific quid pro quo that should have been agreed to in the beginning. You have gotten out of me what you are going to get. I am done.
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Old 11-18-2012, 10:04 AM   #79
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Canada is not the only place where doctor's education and training are government subsidized. Anyone doing residency training in the USA is essentially paid by Medicare without which there would be no residency programs. There was an editorial (in the LA or NY Times?) about this that I looked for and cannot find. The basic argument was that doctors have an obligation to NOT retire early because society through the government invests so much in their training.
As a physician who collected those government salaries during residency back when residency meant 80-100 hour work weeks and therefore translated into a paltry hourly salary--and as someone who has since paid top $ income tax brackets, my reaction to that is---
. As someone else said, if there was going to be a more specific quid pro quo that should have been agreed to in the beginning. You have gotten out of me what you are going to get. I am done.
Yes, I used to work for $8 per hour as an intern. We have paid a non financial price too, in the damage done to our physical and mental health. Wishing you a happy RE!
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Old 11-18-2012, 10:13 AM   #80
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I believe that by planning and structuring ER for DH and for myself I am living up to my full potential.

Work is foremost an exchange of time versus money. If it is good, there are also other benefits like positive social interactions, a sense of belonging, the feeling of contributing to something important. But still....

When someone tells me he loves to work I want to reply "never love something that cannot love you back".
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