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Old 11-29-2012, 05:43 AM   #121
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I am not sure what point you are trying to make.
I think s/he's questioning the "...65% marginal tax rate..." vs 2200/4000 and the link to tax rates of 35% max up to 5000.

Regardless, I think your point is still valid.

IMO, almost all discussions of "morality" eventually lead to some level of differing views and disagreement; not that such discussions are bad, just not always productive. And, of course, the very question posed by this thread takes us there.
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Old 11-29-2012, 06:46 AM   #122
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Originally Posted by Huston55 View Post
I think s/he's questioning the "...65% marginal tax rate..." vs 2200/4000 productive.

e.
Thanks for the clarification.
There is a difference between marginal and average tax rates, of course.
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Old 11-29-2012, 08:37 AM   #123
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In recent conversations with my father, he's expressed the position that someone who is "gifted" or might have higher aptitude for success, has some what of a moral obligation to do a job that is deemed more worthwhile, or more important. The discussion stemmed from my desire to retire early. He feels that it is greedy or self-centered for someone to retire early if they have the potential to impact events or people. I am by no means trying to toot my own horn here or paint myself as a Jack Bauer, but that's my father's (and probably most dad's) view of his son.
FWIW, my own father retired at age 55, enjoyer 15 years of living live on his own terms - including enjoying my mother's constant companionship - and then died of cancer at age 70. While he is no longer around for me to check with, I doubt that he would agree with your father's view.
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Old 12-31-2012, 12:13 AM   #124
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I am not sure what point you are trying to make.
The point was that you claimed to have paid 2200 pounds tax on a 4000 pound income while agreeing that the top marginal tax rate on 4000 pounds of income was 35%.

While I will ignore the lower rates on the first 1000, 4000 X .35 = 1400, no?

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Thanks for the clarification.
There is a difference between marginal and average tax rates, of course.
Yes there is. The marginal are always higher, at least in a 'progessive' system.
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Old 12-31-2012, 01:15 AM   #125
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kumquat, please reread my post #94, in which I mentioned that I was paying a top marginal tax rate of ~65%. Clearly, everyone is incredulous that this could be so. Hence, please look at this link showing historical tax rates in various countries during the period in question. Recall that this very week in France, the introduction of a 75% top marginal tax rate was ruled unconstitutional. There is no limit to the greed of the taxman!

http://www.taxpolicycenter.org/taxfa...al_toprate.pdf
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Old 12-31-2012, 01:18 AM   #126
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Back to the original question...I gave this one a long think.

I believe that IF you have that moral push inside of you, then you DO. It really is that simple. SHOULD you have that moral push? I don't know. If we start down THAT past, it gets weird real quick. True, many of our collective moral considerations get codified into LEGAL rules of conduct, the MORAL side is still extremely personal. One place where these two forces collide is in governmantal assistance to the less fortunate. Those who support government assistance think, IMHO, that the obligation to assist is greater than the option of others to NOT assist. By making it a legal obligation (via tax code) you preclude the ability to opt out. So, I think FORCING others to "do good" has a great peril. It can end up looking like something like that Taliban. Here in the American version of western society, we highly value the right of the individual.

As has been pointed out, volunteer work can be HIGHLY beneficial to society. If you feel that burn inside, go for it. If you do NOT feel the need to "contribute" more, just realize that you have a moral code that does not make that demand on you.

Just my opinion - no more, no less.
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Old 12-31-2012, 01:59 AM   #127
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kumquat, please reread my post #94, in which I mentioned that I was paying a top marginal tax rate of ~65%. Clearly, everyone is incredulous that this could be so. Hence, please look at this link showing historical tax rates in various countries during the period in question. Recall that this very week in France, the introduction of a 75% top marginal tax rate was ruled unconstitutional. There is no limit to the greed of the taxman!

http://www.taxpolicycenter.org/taxfa...al_toprate.pdf
In post #94 you claimed a marginal tax rate of 65%. You may be surprised to find that the link quoted says the top marginal rate in 1980 was 60%.

In post #102 you agreed that this was accurate. It showed a marginal tax rate of 35% on 4000 pounds for 1980. In post #98 you claimed a 1980 income of ~4000 pounds and income tax of 2200 pounds. The two are contradictory. Which is wrong?

Your link shows a high top marginal rate for Ireland in 1980 was 60%. It doesn't show that someone with a 4000 pound income was in that bracket. This link (that you agreed was accurate) says 35%. And to the best of my knowledge, interns (or even residents) don't hit the top brackets. So, either you were making a lot more than claimed, or paying less than claimed. Or 65% wasn't part of the equation. That's my point.

The part of the greed of the tax man I have trouble disputing.
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Old 12-31-2012, 02:32 AM   #128
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I'll play devil advocate.. on second thought no. Unless you are genius with the potential to cure cancer, invent cold fusion or something similar definitely not.

In fact in today economy where there are way more qualified workers than there are jobs, much less interesting jobs, if anything now days if anything you have a higher moral obligation to quit work. Especially if you don't have a financial need to hold down a good job, and you don't have an interest in doing it, then why not step aside and let some else get a shot.

Most of on this forum don't begrudge the multi billionaire his 10th house and his third yacht, but I think most of shake our heads and ask why. It seems me the same thing is true for a good jobs. Most the jobs I held were interesting, they certainly paid well, and with stock options the pays was excessive. My consumption habits are modest compared to means, working an extra 15 years wouldn't have done much for society other add another million or so to my net worth and a goodly sum to the governments coffers. But stepping aside gave somebody else an opportunity to climb the corporate ladder, and gave me a chance to do some volunteer work.
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Old 12-31-2012, 01:17 PM   #129
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I'll play devil advocate.. on second thought no. Unless you are genius with the potential to cure cancer, invent cold fusion or something similar definitely not.
Every time I was about to cure cancer with my cold-fusion device, I was interrupted by the muster for the mandatory department training meeting...
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Old 12-31-2012, 02:53 PM   #130
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Every time I was about to cure cancer with my cold-fusion device, I was interrupted by the muster for the mandatory department training meeting...
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Old 12-31-2012, 05:28 PM   #131
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I feel a moral obligation to stay out of the way, so that those who are gifted can get about the business of saving the world.
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Old 12-31-2012, 06:19 PM   #132
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