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Does anyone else think this sounds like socialism?
Old 05-29-2007, 12:39 PM   #1
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Does anyone else think this sounds like socialism?

Look at what Hillary touts as her economic vision.

We Are All in It Together, Clinton Says: Financial News - Yahoo! Finance
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Old 05-29-2007, 12:49 PM   #2
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Sounds reasonable to me. If it weren't for the fact that she voted in favor of the war, I would probably support her.
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Old 05-29-2007, 01:59 PM   #3
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The sound bite sounds like socialism, yes. But whether it is or not, and to what degree, would depend on the details.
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Old 05-29-2007, 02:10 PM   #4
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Well, it's all part of the great tug of war that keeps things somewhat balanced.

I like this quote:

Quote:
We have sent a message to our young people that if you don't go to college ... that you're thought less of in America. We have to stop this," she said. "Our country cannot run without the people who have the skills that are taught in this school.
Yes, I'm sure that's the message she relayed to Chelsea. The sentiment is nice, but you'd better believe my daughters will think anything less than college is not okay. Anyway, that's just what we need in America today . . . a less educated workforce. I'm a big believer that many kids belong in vocational school learning a skill instead of college, but this quote just sounds really dopey to me.
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Old 05-29-2007, 02:41 PM   #5
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....but this quote just sounds really dopey to me.
Could we really expect anything different from her?
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Old 05-29-2007, 02:45 PM   #6
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I don't like her. I see her as a power hungry opportunist that will say anything to get more POWER. I predict that if she is nominated by the Democrats, the next POTUS will be a Republican.

At any rate, it seems like all political speeches are always long on puffery and short on specifics. This one is no different.
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Old 05-29-2007, 03:30 PM   #7
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I don't like Hillary at all...but, I do happen to agree that its not necessary for everyone to go to college. A smart, hardworking kid could just as easily go into a skilled trade (plumbing, auto repair, electrician) or just about any other trade and do well if s/he was motivated. A lazy person isn't going to do well at college or a trade school. Coming home from work with dirt under the fingernails shouldn't be frowned upon.

Especially if you (as a student) are faced with the prospect of going into debt for 25-50-75-100K in order to get a degree...I always thought college was necessary, but I have a feeling its reaching the tipping point on a cost/benefit analysis for a lot of kids.
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Old 05-29-2007, 05:05 PM   #8
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I respect hard work a lot--a good plumber or electrician is worth every nickel they make, and that guy spreading hot tar on the roof is doing a valuabe service that everyone should appreciate and value.

Still, in the US, a college degree is now and will increasingly be a very important tool toward making a middle class living. 40 years ago there was plenty of assembly line work/skilled trades work in manufacturing so that a non-college grad could bring support a stay-at-home spouse and kids. These jobs are now increasingly done overseas (as is natural--since the work can be done less expensively), and the pay is going down for the remaining US jobs--fewer jobs and more people who want them=lower pay. If you don't like to/don't want to do academic work through the BA/BS level, there will be jobs in the US, but you'll be competing with illegal immigrants, offshore factrories, and others who didn't want to go t colege. Pay won't be good.

There's no reason for anybody to rack up 75K in student loans. Good public colleges are avaialble that charge reasonable tuitions, you need to live on the cheap, and working while in college didn't kill many of us. But, even if you do have some hefty loans on graduations, the stats say an average grad will make enough in extra pay to make the loans look like a good investment. Of course, if you have $250K in loans and an english degree (no offense--my degree was worth about as much), well, the averages may not apply.
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Old 05-29-2007, 06:27 PM   #9
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I do kind of think that this country is moving closer and closer to socialism just based on the fact that our tax system has become so much a redistribution-of-wealth scheme through which politicians buy votes...I get a little tired of the constant "tax the rich" talk that seems to be the answer for every Democrat candidate these days and in the past few years.

I really resent candidates who try to create class warfare in order to lock in the votes they need to stay in office.
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Old 05-29-2007, 06:36 PM   #10
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Here are a list of the actual quotes from that article:

- "I prefer a 'we're all in it together' society," she said. "I believe our government can once again work for all Americans. It can promote the great American tradition of opportunity for all and special privileges for none."

- "There is no greater force for economic growth than free markets. But markets work best with rules that promote our values, protect our workers and give all people a chance to succeed," she said. "Fairness doesn't just happen. It requires the right government policies."

- "We have sent a message to our young people that if you don't go to college ... that you're thought less of in America. We have to stop this," she said.

- "It's not as if America hasn't been successful these last six years, but the measure of success does not relate to what's happening in households across our country," she said. "It's like trickle down economics, without the trickle."

So which ones do you take objection to? It looks pretty much like every political stump speach I've ever heard. Every statement is carefully qualified so that it's hard to object without reading something more into it.
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Old 05-29-2007, 06:41 PM   #11
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Funny thing ... of the 1/2 dozen multi millionaires I know NONE have college degrees. All took lots of risk early and had the guts/persistence/determination to succeed.

Of the dozens of college grads I know, nearly all are in debt upto thier eyeballs and will working well past 60.

FWIW I graduated with a BS in Math. Never saw a class on "making money/investments".

What I've learned is that college and financial success are unrelated.
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Old 05-29-2007, 06:57 PM   #12
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Quote:
Originally Posted by sgeeeee View Post
Here are a list of the actual quotes from that article:

- "I prefer a 'we're all in it together' society," she said. "I believe our government can once again work for all Americans. It can promote the great American tradition of opportunity for all and special privileges for none."

- "There is no greater force for economic growth than free markets. But markets work best with rules that promote our values, protect our workers and give all people a chance to succeed," she said. "Fairness doesn't just happen. It requires the right government policies."

- "We have sent a message to our young people that if you don't go to college ... that you're thought less of in America. We have to stop this," she said.

- "It's not as if America hasn't been successful these last six years, but the measure of success does not relate to what's happening in households across our country," she said. "It's like trickle down economics, without the trickle."

So which ones do you take objection to? It looks pretty much like every political stump speach I've ever heard. Every statement is carefully qualified so that it's hard to object without reading something more into it.
I'm not sure that you are directing this question to me, but if so, none of these particular quotes bother me except for the last part of the first one which seems to be instigating that class warfare feeling again. I was speaking in more general terms about all the campaign speeches that I've heard from the Dems in the last few elections. And, of course, it all has to be paid for somehow and there's the rub...but having watched billions being spent on war in the last decade it would seem that tax monies could be redirected at some point to the benefit of the general public without having to raise anyone's individual tax burden. That's probably just a wishful fantasy of mine, however.

I completely agree that a college education is not for everyone and that we owe a lot of respect to those in the more technical fields who are doing very important, but less appreciated, jobs. I have a couple of younger cousins who both went that route and have done quite well for themselves as a result.
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Old 05-29-2007, 07:13 PM   #13
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Funny thing ... of the 1/2 dozen multi millionaires I know NONE have college degrees. All took lots of risk early and had the guts/persistence/determination to succeed.
i have similar experience. most of the people i know who have money are the people who really wanted money regardless of their education and almost regardless of their i.q. (within reason).

i know people of high i.q.'s and good education who have little and those with lower i.q.'s and less education who have done, financially, quite well.

i think college opens a few more doors but only if you are one to walk through them. and if you are one to walk through them, then you can walk through many of them without college.

as to the socialist thing. well, um, i am a socialist so i don't see the problem.
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Old 05-29-2007, 11:02 PM   #14
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it doesn't sound like socialism to me - geez...! pick up some marx and you'll see you'd see he'd have sucked at sound bites.

even john smith thought capitalism needed rules/protections for the vulnerable...
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Old 05-29-2007, 11:18 PM   #15
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I'm not sure that you are directing this question to me, but if so, none of these particular quotes bother me . . .
Sorry, SamHouston. I didn't mean to direct the questions at you. I just read the article and wondered how someone came up with a socialism label based on the quotes. Thanks for providing your thoughts anyway.
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Old 05-29-2007, 11:35 PM   #16
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even john smith thought capitalism needed rules/protections for the vulnerable...
What John Smith was this? The Pocahantas John Smith?

Or was it the John Smith who created the shift key?
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Old 05-29-2007, 11:38 PM   #17
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oooops! haha too many disney movies round these parts... adam smith

betcha john smith supported protections against the poor and minorities too haha!
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Old 05-30-2007, 06:08 AM   #18
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On the Education is good front. I fully agree everyone does not need a college education. I was a HS drop out (did not go to 10th grade). Went to work, got married, had 4 kids (all college graduates), did not finish a BS degree until I was 35 years old. Wish I did not have to waste the time working a full-time job and going to night school, losing time with family on weekends, to get that college degree. I made much more than enough to retire early on, but the college degree did not really help at all. Would rather work with my hands than my head -- much more fun. I have always believed a good trade school, apprenticeship, in a "hands on working field" is better for many, many kids today. But cannot fight the "you gotta have college" crew.
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Old 05-30-2007, 06:23 AM   #19
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I'd say the comments about education are about as far from current socialist practice as can be concieved.

In Italy, universities are "free" (very low cost) and have no barriers to entry that I know of outside of a HS diploma unless the most recent reforms have changed that. When they recently tried to put limits on the time frame for getting a degree, the REAL left (you have no idea in the US what "left" really means) was up in arms.. hundreds of thousands participated in marches and "strikes". (Yes, students here frequently go "on strike" and quit studying.. v. effective! )

It's quite common for college students to remain undergrads for 5-10 years. Partly it's because some degrees are harder to obtain. Mostly it's because the the vast majority are living at home and mom is still feeding them and washing their dirty undies and paying for their video cell phones and nights out at the disco. And of course, everyone wants their kid to have a degree (even if that means no job) rather than be a working technician or mechanic. A degree is a very high-status item here; a basic degree gets you the title of "dottore" (doctor) and one is treated differently.

ANyway..the REAL socialist/communist line is that an advanced degree is essentially a right, and that meritocracy is pernicious.

No small wonder that no one can find a good electrician or mason anymore. No young person will do it. They're all studying "communications".
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Old 05-30-2007, 11:36 AM   #20
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Not sure I can answer the question; one might want to define socialism first.

where is socialism applied today? are the same policies applied there?

where are the same policies applied? are those countries considered socialist?
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