Does your HOA get to approve your sales/rents?

[Aerides]

yes it's confusing, they published the rules and voting papers by suprise in early december. Then said they'd set up a meeting because we all went "wait what?". But then resent papers with votes and meeting for today.

I dropped off my vote today and I'm going tonight, but the whole things stinks... who pays attention to this stuff during the holidays? Very poorly handled.... I'm hoping at least it doesn't meet the requirements of minimum number of votes given all the confusion and sloppiness... I really don't want to get involved or knock doors (this is a 700+ home community).

But I'm worried about the pearl clutching effect...

[Dash man]

We have both a townhouse that just implemented these rules for renters only, and a Florida condo that has to approve both rentals (90 day minimum) and sales. The condo requires an interview, which is primarily to go over the rules and regulations and was done at our convenience via Skype. The condo background checks are financial and criminal, to make sure you understand the fees and assessments, to make sure you can afford them, and to keep out anyone that might be a danger. When we bought the condo, the process moved quickly enough to not affect the purchase process. We closed a month after we made the offer.

[GalaxyBoy]

One thing I learned living in a low-dues HOA community was that enforcement of the covenants is only as good as the ability of the HOA to pay legal fees. Once upon a time a neighbor boarded up her garage doors with unpainted plywood to spite another neighbor who had the cops enforce noise ordinances against her due to her constantly-barking dog. The HOA eventually threatened to sue her for violating the architectural standards and she caved, but in reality the HOA didn't have two nickels to rub together after paying for the minimal maintenance required of the neighborhood entrance. If she had said "go fly a kite," there was really nothing that they could have done.

BTW, when the police officer served her the summons on the dog she cussed him out and spat on his police car. He looked at her driver's license and noticed her birthday was coming up, and as it was a good court date for him he gave her a little b-day present. Karma!

[pb4uski]

Quote:

Originally Posted by Aerides I live in a "normal" SFH community (not a condo, still cut my own lawn, no gates, no club, but common areas, a small park and dock, are maintained). Low fee, low service kinda normal. Rules are somewhat loose and haven't changed much since the 80's. Suddenly, our board proposes that they want amendments to require applications for any new rental or sale, with 30 days to approve, and include background checks, credit reports, etc. IOW, when i go to sell, I have to tell a buyer he must wait for a month and submit to a background check, before I can take the offer, potentially making another neighborhood with no wait seem far more attractive... Same for rentals even if the owner does their own checks (as I'm sure many do). And if I owned a rental in the neighborhood I'd look to sell and get rid of it vs. this malarkey.... (selling any time soon for me is not an option, but will be in about 5 years). I'm concerned this will slow property sales, which hurts sale prices, and sounds like the sort of thing that hurts 100% of people for a potential .01% "catch" of someone with a dodgy past. Anyone have an HOA with similar rules? I'm going to the board meeting tonight so arm me with good stuff!

Actually, IME you are overstating it. When we bought, the seller just mentioned that the association had to approve the sale and since that was typical we accepted it and that was one of the contingencies in the P&S contract. Other than that it didn't affect the sale one little bit. The seller was free to accept our offer and did. Having this constraint doesn't impact property values at all as far as I can tell. Lots of rentals here and essentially the same process for rentals. I think it is a good thing overall.... would you want someone buying or renting that wasn't willing to provide some elementary information? If these restrictions causes a registered sex-offender or other undesireable to move on to associations that don't have an approval process then that is fine with me.

The association can't really be too restrictive in their process or they risk discrimination lawsuits... they know that and therefore are judicious in their decisions.

[Aerides]

The proposed doc says that an application must be provided by the owner, to the HOA, no less than 30 days prior to any proposed sale (with a fee). The association will then run background checks (criminal, credit, finance) and may require an interview. HOA has 30 days to approve or deny, and if they do neither, the owner can't move forward. If they do, the sale is null/void.

That says to me "you can't say "sold!" until the HOA says you can, and they reserve the right to take a month to say you can.

Today they have no involvement, now it seems they rights of first refusal. If it was 3 days I'd be less concerned, but 30 seems like a long time.

[Jerry1]

Quote:

Originally Posted by pb4uski If these restrictions causes a registered sex-offender or other undesireable to move on to associations that don't have an approval process then that is fine with me. The association can't really be too restrictive in their process or they risk discrimination lawsuits... they know that and therefore are judicious in their decisions.

If a sex offender or other felon who had fully served their time was denied, wouldn't that be grounds for discrimination anyway?

Personally, I have never lived in a property with an HOA. It doesn't sit well with me to ask permission. I'll probably end up in one some day when I no longer want to do yard work or shovel snow, but I plan on putting it off as long as possible. At least with the City, they have to pass an ordinance and enforce it equally (for the most part). However, that's still distasteful to me but no real way around it. It wouldn't bother me if they would just enforce building codes be met, but basically, it's just a way to use your improvement as a way to tax you more.

[Bamaman]

My aunt inherited her father's 24th floor penthouse in Ft. Lauderdale on the Gault Ocean Mile. It's one of those properties where the cars are Jags, Mercs. and Rolls. My single and somewhat dull female cousin tried to move in, but she was turned down by the HOA for being unmarried.

It's just another example why I never cared for HOA's. But now times have changed to where discrimination for gender, race, sexual preference and religion is not accepted or legal. Boy does that HOA have something to look at today.

[pb4uski]

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jerry1 If a sex offender or other felon who had fully served their time was denied, wouldn't that be grounds for discrimination anyway? Personally, I have never lived in a property with an HOA. It doesn't sit well with me to ask permission. I'll probably end up in one some day when I no longer want to do yard work or shovel snow, but I plan on putting it off as long as possible. At least with the City, they have to pass an ordinance and enforce it equally (for the most part). However, that's still distasteful to me but no real way around it. It wouldn't bother me if they would just enforce building codes be met, but basically, it's just a way to use your improvement as a way to tax you more.

I dunno on the first part... I would think that the association would need to consult with counsel before any denial to make sure that they are on solid ground and the denial isn't discriminatory.

I had never lived in a property with a HOA until we bought our condo in 2016. I actually like it... the restrictions are not onerous... for example, you can have whatever you want for window coverings but what shows to the outside must be white/off-white... I don't see that as unreasonable and it add to the neighborhood IMO... much more attractive than many apartment buildings that I see with a plethora of different colored window coverings.

[pb4uski]

Quote:

Originally Posted by Aerides The proposed doc says that an application must be provided by the owner, to the HOA, no less than 30 days prior to any proposed sale (with a fee). The association will then run background checks (criminal, credit, finance) and may require an interview. HOA has 30 days to approve or deny, and if they do neither, the owner can't move forward. If they do, the sale is null/void. That says to me "you can't say "sold!" until the HOA says you can, and they reserve the right to take a month to say you can. Today they have no involvement, now it seems they rights of first refusal. If it was 3 days I'd be less concerned, but 30 seems like a long time.

Yes, I agree that 30 days is extreme... our association has 15 days... and I would also agree that there need to be protections put in place to prevent the association from unreasonably withhholding approval.

[gauss]

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jerry1 If a sex offender or other felon who had fully served their time was denied, wouldn't that be grounds for discrimination anyway?

Discrimination? - yes but likely not illegal discrimination, at least not at the Federal level.

Unless sex offenders are a protected class in your state or municipality then my understanding is that they can be legally discriminated against.

My rental condo HOA passed restrictions recently such as no sex offenders allowed to reside and rules limiting rentals. Was not happy about either of these and yes I did attend the meeting and raise the issue of lowering property values.

-gauss

[Aerides]

Well meeting tonight was a lot of shouting (there are multiple changes including these, being proposed), and the good news is the current bylaws require 75% acceptance of all members to pass (not 75% of turnout, but literally 75% of all residents to say aye). So, as is, nothing will happen.

The board is now going to form committees to rework the changes to have more buy in and acceptance. I've asked for data showing how competitive we'll be with similar area neighborhoods, as well as pushing to consider a proposal for implementing this for rentals only for now, pushing that 30 days down to 10, and then looking at sales next year, if that.... I will probably get on one of these committees too.... oi...

[pb4uski]

Another thing to consider... in addition to an affirmative vote of the membership (50% in our case as I recall) in our case the changes also needed to be approved by each mortgagee before they could be recorded with the county and that process is proving to be very time consuming as I understand.

Ours were approved last spring and are still not recorded to my knowledge.

[bushpilot]

Wow, if I would have been at that meeting, there would have been even more shouting! I am glad I live in the woods ...

[SheitlQueen]

I have condo rentals that are covered by an HOA. We are required to do background checks on any renter. However, I run them and they are done instantaneously. I haven't heard about delaying things for 30 days and there is no reason for that.

[brucethebroker]

Quote:

Originally Posted by pb4uski Actually, IME you are overstating it. When we bought, the seller just mentioned that the association had to approve the sale and since that was typical we accepted it and that was one of the contingencies in the P&S contract. Other than that it didn't affect the sale one little bit. The seller was free to accept our offer and did. Having this constraint doesn't impact property values at all as far as I can tell. Lots of rentals here and essentially the same process for rentals. I think it is a good thing overall.... would you want someone buying or renting that wasn't willing to provide some elementary information? If these restrictions causes a registered sex-offender or other undesireable to move on to associations that don't have an approval process then that is fine with me. The association can't really be too restrictive in their process or they risk discrimination lawsuits... they know that and therefore are judicious in their decisions.

+1. These rules are quite common in many "high retiree/senior ownership" states. Comments here about the rules being discrimination don't take into consideration that sex offenders, criminals and the "credit impaired" are not protected classes under equal housing rules.

Where the rules are common, local Realtors are familiar with the process, and plan accordingly during the sales process. Very few delayed closings for that reason.

[Another Reader]

Quote:

Originally Posted by brucethebroker +1. These rules are quite common in many "high retiree/senior ownership" states. Comments here about the rules being discrimination don't take into consideration that sex offenders, criminals and the "credit impaired" are not protected classes under equal housing rules. Where the rules are common, local Realtors are familiar with the process, and plan accordingly during the sales process. Very few delayed closings for that reason.

Unfortunately, with the "disparate impact" court cases, that is no longer the case. You must be able to show a reasonable expectation of the individual continuing to behave in the same manner. A murderer that was convicted 20 years ago and has been out of jail for 7 or 8 years without being convicted of another crime would probably have a case. There has been discussion of limiting the use of credit scores for the same reason.

[Offgrid Organic Farmer]

I have never lived in a HOA.

Many times we have looked at properties that were within HOAs, but each time reading the details of the HOA contracts scared us away.

[Teacher Terry]

We have lived in a few HOA’s. None had to approve a sale. One the person was a little Nazi and we would get letters for weeds in the front yard. It would take us forever to find the few weeds they were talking about. My step son is in the military and when deployed they are not supposed to bother him with any of this but they do. He finally threatened legal action as this is against the law. We sold and left. Very happy to not have one.

[brett]

We moved into a small HOA 18 months ago. We love it. Mostly retired professional and/or business people. HOA takes care of lawns and snow removal. Have not heard one complaint from anyone about anything. Large, attached bungalows.

We did review the bylaws prior to moving in. I think the only thing that stood out was no children under 18 or something like that. We have had one meeting. A non event really simply to review the financials and elect the board.

Many of the members travel frequently and there is always someone to volunteer to check on the heat, water etc. We have been able to lock and leave for two-three months at a time with no issues. Doing exactly that next week. We much prefer it to the rental condo where we lived for a number of years.

[Music Lover]

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jerry1 Personally, I have never lived in a property with an HOA. It doesn't sit well with me to ask permission. I'll probably end up in one some day when I no longer want to do yard work or shovel snow, but I plan on putting it off as long as possible.

You can hire someone to shovel and do yard work...and it would probably be a lot cheaper than a monthly HOA fee.