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Old 06-22-2007, 01:07 PM   #21
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OK... two things that my sister had sent to me yesterday.... here is one


> Subject: Americans vs.Japanese
>
>
>
> Car makers way of thinking
> A Modern Parable...
>
> A Japanese company ( Toyota ) and an American
> company (General Motors) decided to have a canoe
> race on the Missouri River. Both teams practiced
> long and hard to reach their peak performance
> before the race.
>
> On the big day, the Japanese won by a mile.
>
> The Americans, very discouraged and depressed,
> decided to investigate the reason for the crushing
> defeat. A team made up of senior management was
> formed to investigate and recommend appropriate
> action.
>
> Their conclusion was the Japanese had 8 people
> rowing and 1 person steering, while the American
> team had 8 people steering and 1 person rowing.
>
> Feeling a deeper study was in order, American
> management hired a consulting company and paid them
> a large amount of money for a second opinion. They
> advised, of course, that too many people were
> steering the boat, while not enough people were
> rowing.
>
> Not sure of how to utilize that information, but
> wanting to prevent another loss to the Japanese, the
> rowing team's management structure was totally
> reorganized to 4 steering supervisors, 3 area
> sterrting superintendents and 1 assistant
> superintendent steering manager.
>
> They also implemented a new performance system that
> would give the 1 person rowing the boat greater
> incentive to work harder. It was called the 'Rowing
> Team Quality First Program,' with meetings, dinners
> and free pens for the rower. There was discussion of
> getting new paddles, canoes and other equipment,
> extra vacation days for practices and bonuses.
>
> The next year the Japanese won by two miles.
>
> Humiliated, the American management laid off the
> rower for poor performance, halted development of a
> new canoe, sold the paddles, and cancelled all
> capital investments for new equipment. The money
> saved was distributed to the Senior Executives as
> bonuses and the next year's racing team was
> out-sourced to India .
>
> Sadly, The End.
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Old 06-22-2007, 01:11 PM   #22
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Second....

BTW CFB... my '85 Cougar was one of the worst cars that I owned... it would stall on its own... and Ford knew why but did not tell anybody until they were sued 10 or more years later and lost.... well, if I still had the car I would have gotten a $500 reduction on any other Ford that I wanted to buy.... big whoop...




> Here's something else to think about: Ford has
> spent the last thirty years moving all its
> factories out of the US , claiming they can't make
> money paying American wages. Toyota has spent the
> last thirty years building more than a dozen plants
> inside the US.
>
> The last quarter's results:
>
> Toyota makes 4 billion in profits while Ford racked
> up 9 billion in losses. Ford folks are still
> scratching their heads.
>
> IF THIS WASN'T SO SAD IT MIGHT BE FUNNY !
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Old 06-22-2007, 01:20 PM   #23
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So, he sees his new neighbors as unpatriotic and potential GM customers?

How neighborly of him. You'll have to get together with your other neighbors and throw him a "block party"...
Block party, as in the men bring bricks and the women bring paver bricks, and we see how many dings we can put in the the two "gas-misers" in his driveway......

One of LBYM neighbors said: "Wow that's something...........$80,000 worth of vehicles in his driveway and his mailbox is still busted"............
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Old 06-22-2007, 02:16 PM   #24
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Second....

BTW CFB... my '85 Cougar was one of the worst cars that I owned... it would stall on its own... and Ford knew why but did not tell anybody until they were sued 10 or more years later and lost.... well, if I still had the car I would have gotten a $500 reduction on any other Ford that I wanted to buy.... big whoop...

I remember that problem...something or other involved with that newfangled fuel injection system getting hot. I found if I ran it on higher octane fuel that it'd run great. Cost me a few cents extra per gallon, but it was cheaper than a new car. I had the 5.0L v-8...I heard there were other stalling problems with the 2.3l and the v6.

I was desperately hoping that car would develop a major problem as I was sick of driving it. I finally capitulated and bought something else...left all the receipts and stuff in the glove compartment. Some guy from upstate new york called me a couple of months later to say that he'd bought the car and it was in great shape!
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Old 06-22-2007, 02:23 PM   #25
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I remember that problem...something or other involved with that newfangled fuel injection system getting hot. I found if I ran it on higher octane fuel that it'd run great. Cost me a few cents extra per gallon, but it was cheaper than a new car. I had the 5.0L v-8...I heard there were other stalling problems with the 2.3l and the v6.

I was desperately hoping that car would develop a major problem as I was sick of driving it. I finally capitulated and bought something else...left all the receipts and stuff in the glove compartment. Some guy from upstate new york called me a couple of months later to say that he'd bought the car and it was in great shape!
I had an 87 Cougar, liked the looks and the ride, but it had 3 recalls on it............

Gas mileage was a little sketchy, but I think it was around $1.40 at the time and I didn't care.........

One of the best cars I only had for a short time was an Isuzu with 5 speed, air and cruise. It got 42 on the highway with the air on............
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Old 06-22-2007, 02:54 PM   #26
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Its interesting to look through the NHTSA stats for recalls. Granted the "big three" have been selling cars in america a lot longer than toyota and honda, but even so...there are tens of thousands of recalls for gm/ford/chrysler and less than a thousand for toyota and honda...and many of those are for honda motorcycles and helmets.

Sort of telling...
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Old 06-22-2007, 03:38 PM   #27
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remember all those american flags flapping on foreign cars after 911? i had a yellow stang vertible at the time and just let the badge speak for itself.

here's the hubs on the new gt:

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Old 06-22-2007, 04:26 PM   #28
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Originally Posted by cute fuzzy bunny View Post
I remember that problem...something or other involved with that newfangled fuel injection system getting hot. I found if I ran it on higher octane fuel that it'd run great. Cost me a few cents extra per gallon, but it was cheaper than a new car. I had the 5.0L v-8...I heard there were other stalling problems with the 2.3l and the v6.

I was desperately hoping that car would develop a major problem as I was sick of driving it. I finally capitulated and bought something else...left all the receipts and stuff in the glove compartment. Some guy from upstate new york called me a couple of months later to say that he'd bought the car and it was in great shape!
Yep... V6 here... and I had it in the shop many times... but the higher fuel did nothing.... mine was a board that would warp when it got warm on the computer controls... also, mine ate batteries all the time... no battery lasted more than 12 months... and some only 1 or 2...

I am off Ford for good... which means no Mazda either even though I had one before Ford got to them and it was good... a small GLC..
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Old 06-22-2007, 04:33 PM   #29
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... a small GLC..
I was sorry to see our GLC hatchback bite the dust. Great starter car.
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Old 06-22-2007, 09:00 PM   #30
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If and when our Bonnie ever dies (currently has 162k on the clock), I'll probably get another Poncho.... maybe wait for a used G8.
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Old 06-22-2007, 10:38 PM   #31
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If and when our Bonnie ever dies (currently has 162k on the clock), I'll probably get another Poncho.... maybe wait for a used G8.

what year? my 95 was my favorite car ever...so plush
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Old 06-23-2007, 12:55 AM   #32
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i have noticed it is definitely regional - the ratio of foreign to domestic cars. Growing up in socal honda, acura, toyota were very much the norm. After extensive travels to upper wisconsin and minnesota, north carolina, michigan/detroit, i was surprised how few honda's you would see at all. i had even heard of people with honda's in detroit getting damaged...not as much lately though.

it's not just a domestic vs foreign debate either. growing up we always had honda/acura, so that is what i was accustomed to. i borrowed my friend's nissan and it drove like a toy car, barely making it up hills without the pedal to the metal.

my dad bought a giant, 7-up green buick (with white vinyl interior!)when we first moved here, it was the one twirling around on the spinny thing. i think he wanted to be american as possible thru and thru. that car was sure purty! and you could slide down the sloped back.

oh, and by the way, honda makes lemons too, cuz my dad sure got one on his last car...it leaked all kinds of things, poured water from the air conditioning onto our feet and other weird quirks.
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Old 06-23-2007, 06:51 AM   #33
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I will ask this question again.? If our great automobile companies cannot build a car on par with the honda accord toyota camry honda civic or the toyota carolla what says we will still be the great economic engine of the world in 50 years? My son was working at columbia in the graduate department chemistry and said the guys from China are scary smart, that they blow away every american student that was in the program.

Hope your grandkids like hunan shrimp.
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Old 06-23-2007, 07:28 AM   #34
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LG4nb.. that's the flag of FRANCE! (50% of the time..). ;-)

14 yrs Saab w/no problems until recently (alternator)
7 yrs so far Honda CR-V, no problems
Sister: 14 years Honda Civic, no problems; bought a new Accord
Mom OTOH buys new Cadillacs and trades in every 3 years and they always have some wierd issue; the latest one was the power steering cutting out. You don't want to try to drive a 4000-pound car that way.
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Old 06-23-2007, 08:12 AM   #35
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Moreover, who the hell really cares where the cars and parts come from?
I believe that to most people who say it, "Buy American" really means "Buy a car made with UAW labor". They don't care where the parts really come from either.
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Old 06-23-2007, 09:10 AM   #36
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GM: Is putting all their quality into their Suburban/Tahoe line...
Is this true? I have heard good things about the Suburban. OK, I haven't heard of horrible things about the Suburban. Most people appear to speak favorably of it.

Anyone here own/owned it? What's your observation?
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Old 06-23-2007, 09:54 AM   #37
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what year? my 95 was my favorite car ever...so plush
It's a '98 SLE. Outside of my Chevelle, it's the longest tenured car I have owned. We'll drive it until it heaves. I really like the bodystyle of the '05s, which, unfortunately was the last model year of the Bonnie.

My problem with GM isn't their quality, I believe they have made substantial progress... it's their styling.
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Old 06-23-2007, 11:14 AM   #38
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LG4nb.. that's the flag of FRANCE! (50% of the time..). ;-)
how funny. only as far as i can tell from my googling, um, i mean, extensive research, the u.s. red white & blue dates to 1777 while france only used the colors first in 1789. this ain't no renault ya know.
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Old 06-23-2007, 04:09 PM   #39
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For me it's all about how much the other landlords are impressed at our regular gatherings. Style, of course, is paramount among the slumlords. No Bentleys that I've seen. So far. But my Bimmer with stylin' trailer compares favorably with the domestic offering. IMHO. Maybe a set of spinner Dubs on the trailer would be taking it to a whole. 'Nother. Level.




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Old 06-23-2007, 05:55 PM   #40
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72 Ford Pinto (used) - no major problems in 4 years, plenty of small ones
76 Saab 99 (used) - in rough shape when I got it, got worse (bad U-joint, clutch, probably more I can't remember), dumped it rather than put money into it
84 VW Rabbit GTI (new) - a pocket rocket, sold to a friend because my now ex-wife hated sitting in it, he drove it problem free for over 120K. She had an 80 T-bird, prayed it would make it to the out of town dealer when trading it in for the 89 Integra.
86 Saab - lots of problems, broke down on I-95 in DC when some cable to the fuel injection system came loose; spedometer way off; monthly trips to dealer for other work; unloaded after 1 year. Saab fooled me twice, shame on me.
86 Acura Integra (used) - my best car ever, fun to drive and no problems until I got broadsided with 133K miles.
89 Integra (new) - auto transmission never seemed smooth, wife's car, sold for a van (keeping the 86) when we started a family.
91 Toyota Previa - some transmission problems fixed under warranty but I learned to hate Toyota service during that experience; ex- got it in divorce, and she sold it soon after.
90 Acura Legend (used) - A/C problem, never 100% sure of it for some reason, sold for an SUV
97 Honda CRV (new) - underpowered 4 cylinder, only problem was a clogged radiator, shop couldn't figure out how it got that clogged but was fine afterwards. Kinda wish I'd have kept it for my daughter to drive a couple years later, but I needed something bigger for some mountain driving.
97 Miata (used) - Bought as a 2nd "fun" car. No problems at all, still have it, not that many miles on it, sits over the winter and drives great each spring
04 Honda Pilot (new) - no problems, still have it, great car only it's the only one I can't get the EPA numbers on without driving like an old lady.

So I haven't given American car makers much of a chance myself but watched family go through lots of problems, and I've had good-to-great luck through the years with the Honda family, so I'm not really motivated to switch. I do like the looks of the Mustang convertibles, but I can't see getting rid of a reliable and fun car for it.

My daughter and I looked for a lot of used American cars for her first, looking at that range where it's depreciated a lot but still in decent shape. Wound up finding that with a 2003 Mitsubishi Galant. Too early to rate.
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